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Jack Johnson signs with LA

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03-25-2007, 06:51 PM
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Vagrant
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Jack Johnson signs with LA

To escape the ridiculous love fest over on the main boards, how about a place where Carolina fans can discuss this matter without having to defend every word that comes out of their mouth when it comes to this kid.

I'm curious to see how he's going to play. He looked brutal in his last game at Michigan for a player meant to dominate games. We'll see how it goes.

It's just beyond hilarious that anybody not praising him can't get a word in edgewise with a lot of that crowd. How about some rational discussion?

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03-25-2007, 07:00 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to have kept him here. It was the 5th year in a row that the team drafted exactly who I wanted in the first round.

But without Gleason the Canes aren't sniffing the playoffs. I do think LA will likely win out in the end, but it's hard to argue against Gleason's impact on the team this year.

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03-25-2007, 07:09 PM
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I'm mad that JR didn't reel in a real top 2 defender like he could have, but Gleason has been key for us this year.

I dont disapprove of trading him because it was priority to defend our cup this year, but we could have got much more than Gleason imo.

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03-25-2007, 07:12 PM
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What is also ironic is that everybody says that Hurricanes fans should feel bad when Jack is the one stuck playing for the Kings instead of actually playing for a contender. That is the head scratcher of the year. With or without Jack Johnson, this team is built to compete for a long time. Tim Gleason's potential may not equal Jack Johnson's potential, but I predict at least a season or two before Johnson gets his overall game to the point where Gleason's is.

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03-25-2007, 07:31 PM
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I dunno, but I do feel bad that I am not reading an article that says "JJ Signs with Canes" today.

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03-25-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingmoore View Post
I dunno, but I do feel bad that I am not reading an article that says "JJ Signs with Canes" today.
I think we're all a bit miffed about it because who doesn't love a swing for the fences. Everybody digs the homerun prospect while very little appreciation is shown for what was a very solid return for Carolina. Tim Gleason recently has shown that he has what it takes to be a top four defenseman with his shutdown ability and contribution on the offensive end of the ice. He's gaining confidence with every game. He's never going to post ungodly point totals like Johnson has the potential to do, but i'll make the bold assertation that he'll NEVER be as good in his own end as Tim Gleason is right now. They're two different style of players. It's like Bryan McCabe and Chris Phillips. Which one is better? Depends on your need. Who knows how this is all going to play out.

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03-25-2007, 07:40 PM
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i agree with most assessments about how long it will take for the kings to really win this. in the end we will likely get 4 years or so of gleason at his best, the kings will likely get 5 or so of jj at his.

i watched jj live and in person for the first time last night here in denver - i also tivo'd it for future reference. i was pumped to see the kid. he didnt disappoint in many ways - he is a player who cannot settle for a quiet solid game. he plays like he has a pathological need to be a gamebreaker - either way. his attitude really comes off like he thinks he can do whatever he wants - so much that gets away with it often. his two penalties were out of control. he went way overboard laying a guy out, who wasnt even in the play anymore...it was an obvious call. they hadnt called much all day, but there was no way he wasnt gettign called on that one.

the other one defied explanation. he broke in after pretty much walking through all of nd, he lost control of the puck which got ahead of him and beat him to the goalie. he made another desperate rush to beat it, and lept in the air - i thought he was going to make a wheeler-esque stab at it.....nope...he slide tackled the goalie and then looked around like "who.....me?". it was so obvious he intentionally did it, not even michigan fans had a problem with the call.

in the end, he was the most dynamic player on the ice - and there were a bunch of high end prospects playing. he makes great passes, he is more powerful and dangly attacking on the rush than many nhl forwards, he hits like a train, and for the most part played a pretty smart game aside from the major gaffes. his first penalty cost them big as they scored on the pp - he clearly was getting it from berenson on the bench afterword.

he runs around in his own end a bit, he is over the top frequently -and is one cocky s.o.b..

his backhand toe drag between his own legs to beat a d and walk in on net was kovalev pretty, his slapshot was blake hard. itll be fun watching him come along, but itll be awhile before he is helping more than hurting - though ill always be a little upset about this one. there is no doubt that if he develops like he is he will blow gleason out of the water. in the end it will likely be that there will be no way to debate this trade as anything but a band-aid move that cost them a star. i dont think they did it for the right reasons, and thats what bothers me. i do think for now there is a legit argument that this is a fair trade.

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03-25-2007, 07:46 PM
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Even if Johnson does go on to achieve great things in the NHL, we'll always have one thing over his head. It's Shiny and weighs about 32 lbs. Unless and until he gets one of those, not signing with Carolina was the biggest mistake he's made considering that he didn't lead Michigan to anything but a resounding "meh".

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03-25-2007, 07:47 PM
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Expectations...

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Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
What is also ironic is that everybody says that Hurricanes fans should feel bad when Jack is the one stuck playing for the Kings instead of actually playing for a contender. That is the head scratcher of the year. With or without Jack Johnson, this team is built to compete for a long time. Tim Gleason's potential may not equal Jack Johnson's potential, but I predict at least a season or two before Johnson gets his overall game to the point where Gleason's is.
I have to say I was scratching my head my Rutherford dealt Johnson to get help on the blueline. Why deal your best prospect and the guy who's going to anchor the blueline? Why not move Andrew Ladd? That's what puzzled me....

As for JJ, he decided he wanted to return to Michigan for his Sophomore year. There's nothing wrong with that. To hear Rutherford say that he didn't know if Johnson would ever sign with Carolina was puzzling to say the least. When was the last time a top notch 1st rounder did not leave college early? In recent years, we've seen Dipietro, Heatley, Kariya, Montoya, Miller, etc. leave college early.

Only guys like Brian Boyle, who still has not dominated college, remain for a senior year.

The best player in the NHL that actually played 4 years of college is probably Turco, but he wasn't a high draft pick.

All high draft picks leave early because they achieve enough in college where they need to tackle a new challenge. So, if Rutherford decided that he couldn't/wouldn't wait, well, then that's his call.

As for Johnson, he's basically in the same position as his fellow top dmen who were drafted in 2005. Marc Staal will challenge for a spot on the Rangers next season, Ryan Parent will challenge for a spot on the Flyers (hopefully, his injuries this year have not slowed his development), Bourdon will challenge for a spot in Vancouver. Lee probably returns to college, but if he signs, I don't think he can crack the Senator's d core, if Phillips re-signs. Only Dman for 2005 to make the NHL was Vlasic and he was a surprise, but has done an amazing job in SJ.

Bourdon played 9 games with Vancouver and looked pretty bad... So, there's nothing wrong with Dmen taking a bit longer. There's going to be a tonne of pressure on JJ to perform at a high level right away. Same pressure was on Bourdon this past year and he failed.

In LA, he'll play with the likes of Blake and Vishnovsky. Likely to see LA pick up either Stuart or Souray. LA has some good young forwards in Kopitar, Frolov, Cammy, O'Sullivan, Brown, etc. Main issue for LA is goaltending.

As for JJ's upside, sky's the limit for him. He's a hot head, but if he learns to temper that a bit and not try to be too high risk, high reward, he'll be fine. He's got the physical tools and skills to be a consistent all-star every year. His lowest upside is still going to be at worst, even with Gleason's upside.

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03-25-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
His lowest upside is still going to be at worst, even with Gleason's upside.
Highly disagree on that front. Jack Johnson's lowest downside is Andy Delmore with a huge hit thrown in every now and again. Tim Gleason's upside is a shutdown defenseman with potential to develop into a 30 to 40 point scorer and give you solid play at both ends. Carolina has been pairing him against top lines lately with Nic Wallin and they've been doing the job to perfection. Jack Johnson may not ever be that type of player.

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03-25-2007, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
What is also ironic is that everybody says that Hurricanes fans should feel bad when Jack is the one stuck playing for the Kings instead of actually playing for a contender. That is the head scratcher of the year. With or without Jack Johnson, this team is built to compete for a long time. Tim Gleason's potential may not equal Jack Johnson's potential, but I predict at least a season or two before Johnson gets his overall game to the point where Gleason's is.

I think I may be one of the few Kings fans that actually agree with you. Gleason has proven that he can play at the NHL level , Johnson hasn't. Gleason for some reason doesnt get the hype like other dmen out of his draft class. Hes always getting over looked for whatever reason. Hes a good solid young damn that you can count on. Johnson has alot to come in and prove right now.

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03-25-2007, 08:29 PM
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I'm a hardcore Kings fan, but I don't like hearing the word potential. Jack Johnson has the potential to be the best D-man in the NHL, but he could very well be a very expensive flop ala Alexandre Daigle. I frankly could care less that he was signed today or signed this summer. Frankly, I would've liked to have seen EBel and Gleason in LA this season and if Carolina was willing to trade JJ, trade for him this summer.

The other thing is I can try and take the facts from a student newspaper, but unless the Kings (or Monarchs as they occasionally scoop the Kings) issue a press release as far as I'm concerned he is not signed.

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03-25-2007, 09:11 PM
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I think it was a low-risk deal for both teams.

We moved Oleg Tverdovsky which cleared up cap space for the future.

We acquired Tim Gleason who has really started to take it to another level at the right time of the season.

We acquired Eric Belanger and used him to re-acquire Josef Vasicek. After the initial negativity, Vasicek has started to step up his play as well.

Kings acquired Jack Johnson, who could develop into a franchise blue-liner to compliment their talented young forwards.

This isn't the type of deal that will constantly haunt the other team, we'll only play one another once a year at most with the current schedule.

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03-25-2007, 09:12 PM
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I just hope Jack Johnson doesn't crack under all of the pressure some Kings' fans want to place on him.

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03-25-2007, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
Even if Johnson does go on to achieve great things in the NHL, we'll always have one thing over his head. It's Shiny and weighs about 32 lbs. Unless and until he gets one of those, not signing with Carolina was the biggest mistake he's made considering that he didn't lead Michigan to anything but a resounding "meh".
I told CG that. She laughed.

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Highly disagree on that front. Jack Johnson's lowest downside is Any elmre with a huge hit thrown in every now and again.
God help the Kings if that's true.

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03-25-2007, 09:37 PM
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I'm not surprised by this... I also wouldn't be surprised if Jack had NEVER played a game for this organization. There's way too many "what ifs" with Johnson. Right now, we're probably the team with the advantage in the trade because we 1) Cleared 2.5 million in cap space for next season by ditching Tverdovsky, 2) got a top-pairing shut-down defenseman (Wallin-Gleason IS our top pairing right now) and 3) depending on how you look at the Walker-Vasicek-Belanger deals, a player fitting in solidly on our 3rd line playing some of the best hockey of their career.

That's not to say that Johnson won't become a franchise player, he very well could. But he's still a couple years away (at least) from being a solid defenseman at the NHL level. It probably is going to happen but there's no garentuee.

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03-25-2007, 10:12 PM
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it sure would be fun to have a guy like that on our team though... throwing his weight around and creating drama

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03-26-2007, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
To escape the ridiculous love fest over on the main boards, how about a place where Carolina fans can discuss this matter without having to defend every word that comes out of their mouth when it comes to this kid.

I'm curious to see how he's going to play. He looked brutal in his last game at Michigan for a player meant to dominate games. We'll see how it goes.

It's just beyond hilarious that anybody not praising him can't get a word in edgewise with a lot of that crowd. How about some rational discussion?
So by rational discussion, you appear to have meant one wherein Johnson's potential is deemed irrelevant, his accomplishments moot, but with a focus on Gleason's recent play as a mark of consistency throughout his future.

Your attempt at a rational discussion is just as irrational as those falling over themselves and consider him a second coming.

As Kings fans, we are obviously very excited to have someone with the potential of Johnson joining this team. The prospect of Jack playing with all star defenseman Visnovsky, being groomed by Rob Blake and playing with such young stars as Kopitar, Frolov, Brown, Cammy, and now O'Sullivan, while having traded away a massive amount of salary and having the cap room to go out there and get whomever we damn well want in the free agency market because we have a ton of cap room makes for a pretty exciting future...and that is what we look forward to because, unlike the Canes, we don't have one of those shiny trophies yet.

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03-26-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zad View Post
So by rational discussion, you appear to have meant one wherein Johnson's potential is deemed irrelevant, his accomplishments moot, but with a focus on Gleason's recent play as a mark of consistency throughout his future.

Your attempt at a rational discussion is just as irrational as those falling over themselves and consider him a second coming.
Sometimes you over compensate for the incredible amount of overhyping going on by downhyping the player, intentional or otherwise. I've made no qualms about saying I think JJ has a load of potential. I've also made no qualms about saying he has miles to go before he reaches it. I think that is my overall prevailing point. The trade at worst is even for Carolina right now

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03-26-2007, 12:41 PM
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I think its great that LA is getting JJ to sign and they do have a great prospect in him. But I am one and probably the only canes fan that was happy when JR traded him. I got tired of all the JJ drama. And IMHO he was NEVER going to wear the sightless eye. If the Canes didn't trade him, I bet JJ would have stayed in college for his 4 years and re-enter the draft. Then the canes would have gotten nothing for him. And I think the biggest eye opener for JR and PK was when he turned down the invite to join the team during their playoff run. If you have any interest on playing for a team, why not join them? Yeah, you will probably be in the pressbox during the games, but you would get to practice with the team and get an experience of a lifetime. For him to turn this down IMHO speaks volumes of his desire to play here.

I was happy to see JR get something for him. And let's face it Gleason is pretty damn good. I am very happy with Gleason and have been for months. And I could be bias cause he is my favorite defenseman, but I like this kid and I think he will be with this organization for years to come.

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03-26-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
Sometimes you over compensate for the incredible amount of overhyping going on by downhyping the player, intentional or otherwise. I've made no qualms about saying I think JJ has a load of potential. I've also made no qualms about saying he has miles to go before he reaches it. I think that is my overall prevailing point. The trade at worst is even for Carolina right now
The bottomline is Johnson deserves the hype, which appears is unsavory for you to accept. He's one of the two best defensive prospects out there, has all the skill level in the world, and is a fierce competitor who hates to lose. Gleason's a nice player, and has the edge on JJ defensively (right now), but the potential disparity is great, whether you want to accept that or now.

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03-26-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
The bottomline is Johnson deserves the hype, which appears is unsavory for you to accept. He's one of the two best defensive prospects out there, has all the skill level in the world, and is a fierce competitor who hates to lose. Gleason's a nice player, and has the edge on JJ defensively (right now), but the potential disparity is great, whether you want to accept that or now.
When have I EVER ...EVER denied JJ's potential. Show it to me. You and others like you have made great pains to try to make it look like I doubt the kid is a legitimate prospect with tremendous upside. Stop putting words in my mouth.

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03-26-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
When have I EVER ...EVER denied JJ's potential. Show it to me. You and others like you have made great pains to try to make it look like I doubt the kid is a legitimate prospect with tremendous upside. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Just to play spoiler, mentioning Andy Delmore in this thread doesn't exactly help your case. Comparing ANYONE that has ever seen their own half of the ice to Elmore is strictly player-hating.

Kidding aside, the one thing I always found odd about the JJ deal was that people completely disregarded EBel's value in the deal and made it look like Johnson was traded straight-up for Gleason. Furthermore, there's something to be said for getting rid of Oleg Tverdovsky!

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03-26-2007, 02:30 PM
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Ive never wanted a kid to bust so bad before

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03-26-2007, 03:04 PM
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I don't necessarily care if he busts, I just want people to start realizing that Gleason isn't useless and is a pretty solid defenseman. If he has a Glen Wesley type career, I'll be happy.

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