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2013-14 New York Rangers Breakup Day

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Old
06-16-2014, 01:53 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by WhipNash27 View Post
I have a simple rule. Never overpay 4th liners. I know we all fall in love with these guys because of how hard they work, but there are so many players in the NHL that can come cheap who will play just as well.
agree with this 100%

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06-16-2014, 01:55 PM
  #127
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someone will give Boyle a 12 mil 4 year contract...if not more.

caps going up, bottom teams need a guy like him. hes a goner. im thinking Moore is too.

Rangers may need to go with a "kid line" for our 4th.

Fasth - Miller - Dorsett

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06-16-2014, 01:57 PM
  #128
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@PLeonardNYDN: Lundqvist is completely devastated still
I don't blame him. Once the devastation leaves, he will be hungry wanting a cup next year.

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06-16-2014, 01:58 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
someone will give Boyle a 12 mil 4 year contract...if not more.

caps going up, bottom teams need a guy like him. hes a goner. im thinking Moore is too.

Rangers may need to go with a "kid line" for our 4th.

Fasth - Miller - Dorsett
I'm willing to bet that Moore will stay if the Rangers offer him some security. He's bounced around enough, I'd bet he's willing to take a bit of a paycut to stay in one spot. He should know wit Boyle gone that he has the spot locked down.

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06-16-2014, 02:03 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I'm skeptical of the idea of emulating last year's champs. It changes every year, and it's purely reactionary.
The bigger teams typically have an advantage. This is not a preach to rebuild the Bullies, but the team needs size.
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Build your team to play the best way they can and be the champs yourself, write the narrative. Be the team that other, less creative teams try to emulate.
This I disagree with. The Rangers best play is not nearly good enough to compete against the likes of the Kings or Bruins. They did not loose to lack of skill. They lost because the bigger team took a big enough bite of them to where there was no getting off of the matt.
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A huge injection of size and an attitude adjustment is unreasonable to expect in one offseason. I think it's easier, and far more realistic, to make this team a better skill team than it is now. Get more comfortable with one another. Tweak the game plan. Retain who you can, and don't ever add just to add. Only add pieces that fit what you're trying to do.
I am not expecting huge injections. Nor calling for massive changes. I am however, saying that the metamorphosis needs to start.
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An OT goal here or there, and this team doesn't "desperately" need anything. IMO, they don't "desperately" need anything even having just lost.
To me, if the team wants to be a true contender, they need is desperate.

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06-16-2014, 02:06 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I'm willing to bet that Moore will stay if the Rangers offer him some security. He's bounced around enough, I'd bet he's willing to take a bit of a paycut to stay in one spot. He should know wit Boyle gone that he has the spot locked down.
i think if Moore can be had in a 3x1.25 deal id do it. thats what you pay 4th liners...1.25ish. not 2, 3, or 4 which a guy like Boyle could conceivably get. 4th line is important...but it shouldnt make that much money. thats why you have kids, and scrap heap guys.

Pouliot & Moore were both scrap heap guys. need more guys like them on cheap contracts.

Can Pouliot be had at 3x2? if so, bring him back. need to start being smart about this. cant fill the spot? go with kids. rangers have great balance, start spreading out the talent on 4 lines to shelter the kids a bit more.

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06-16-2014, 02:07 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The bigger teams typically have an advantage. This is not a preach to rebuild the Bullies, but the team needs size.

This I disagree with. The Rangers best play is not nearly good enough to compete against the likes of the Kings or Bruins. They did not loose to lack of skill. They lost because the bigger team took a big enough bite of them to where there was no getting off of the matt.

I am not expecting huge injections. Nor calling for massive changes. I am however, saying that the metamorphosis needs to start.

To me, if the team wants to be a true contender, they need is desperate.
There is a line though, speed, size and talent. I think the Kings won not just because they were bigger, they won because they have several players who have size, speed and talent. Rangers have Boyle who is big but not fast nor very talented at least offensively. They had Pyatt who was big.

Trying to get players who have the three traits of size, speed and talent, pretty tough to get unless they draft them or trade for them prior to them breaking out.

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06-16-2014, 02:09 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The bigger teams typically have an advantage. This is not a preach to rebuild the Bullies, but the team needs size.

This I disagree with. The Rangers best play is not nearly good enough to compete against the likes of the Kings or Bruins. They did not loose to lack of skill. They lost because the bigger team took a big enough bite of them to where there was no getting off of the matt.

I am not expecting huge injections. Nor calling for massive changes. I am however, saying that the metamorphosis needs to start.

To me, if the team wants to be a true contender, they need is desperate.
A team that made the finals, that played 4 OT periods in 5 games in the finals, isn't a "true contender?" They weren't "nearly good enough" to "compete" against the Kings?

I disagree.

Bigger teams have an advantage until a team that isn't big wins. Then, a big team wins, and you need to be big again. Just like you don't need a #1 goalie when Niemi wins, then you do need one when Rask and Quick win. You can't play the catch up game with everyone else. You need to establish your team as itself.

The Rangers lost because they played a better, deeper team, and one team has to lose. An OT goal here and there and the teams aren't apart, and then what does size mean?

I don't mean to imply that more size wouldn't be good. Any team should be well-rounded. I just don't want to jettison skill for size because we lost to a big team.

Depth is the key. Having players playing above their paychecks is the key. Everything else is surface level IMO.

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06-16-2014, 02:10 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
To me, hard decisions need to be made. Even if everyone is resigned, that is not good enough. The team, as constituted, was not nearly good enough against the Kings. The Rangers looked like a middle weight fighting a heavyweight. They need an infusion of size and attitude. They cannot continue to ice the mighty mites.

That said, there is a cap. Which means decisions to be made. Even with the buyout of Richards, they are still squeezed and cannot make foolish decisions. Couple that with the need to be better and Jackass can have his hands full. Which is why they really need to look at the roster and figure out who is not only a part of the solution, but who fits in the best. Staal will need to be given a top pairing defenseman's contract. Zucc will need to be resigned. They need to add size.

Two players that will probably make the same amount of money is Stralman and Brassard, probably in a similar $4.5m range. I would resign Stralman and let go of Brassard if I HAD to make a choice. I would also let Pouilliot go. And Moore. Extend Staal. Sign Zucc. Resign Boyle. Then utilize Hagellin as a chip/part of a trade to bring in a younger, bigger center than what the Rangers currently have. Boyle and Moore do not belong on the same team. No team needs 2 4th line centers. I would also resign Carcillo.

People have their favorites and their own views. I am sure that there were Boston fans who did not want to let Kessel or Sequin go. But those were tough decisions that needed to be made and they used to help build a contender that can play with anyone in the league.

The Rangers do not need to build a team that will compete with Montreal. The Rangers need to build a team that will compete with Boston. With LA. With San Jose. With Chicago. With Anaheim. Results may not come in year one, but they can come fairly quickly. And with Henke still in goal.
I don't think it's so simple as "add size and meanness and win". What we really need (which you could directly correlate to size) are players that can score in different ways. Need players that can muscle their way to rebounds, players that can stay on their skates and take that punishment in front of the net, and defensemen that can keep these players away from Hank. Matt Greene and Willie Mitchell were spectacular this series, with their stick work and keeping the crease clear. I'd also argue speed at center is very needed. It's tough having really fast wingers and eh centers. I feel like Hags and MSL could've produced a lot more if they had a talented pivot that could keep up with them (not Richards, of course).

There's absolutely no silver bullet, but I don't think the changes that need to be made will be anything close to impossible.

This is already a very good hockey team.

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Old
06-16-2014, 02:12 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
There is a line though, speed, size and talent. I think the Kings won not just because they were bigger, they won because they have several players who have size, speed and talent. Rangers have Boyle who is big but not fast nor very talented at least offensively. They had Pyatt who was big.
I do not disagree. Pyatt is a perfect point. As is Nash.

This is where Sather has to really make the correct decisions and find the diamonds in the rough. Like Smith did with Graves. Identify those you want. Decide who you can live without. And make a match with what works with other teams (bigger teams looking for speed like Hagellin for instance, that are willing to give back a similarly aged, not as fast, but a bigger body.)

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06-16-2014, 02:13 PM
  #136
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Really gona be upsetting to see Boyle go. Going to feel just like when Prust left. Boyle played in so many key situations. He gave us such security on the PK. That will be very, very hard to replace. He wants a bigger role which you have to assume is a 3rd line center and we just dont have that to offer him.

With Boyle likely gone, you have to keep Dom Moore. You cant go to the SCF and turnover the roster so much the next year. Not when you just gave long term deals to McDonagh, Girardi, and Henrik. You gave up multiple draft picks for MSL. They need to keep stability. Moore has to stay.

I would like to see Poo stay. That line has so much chemistry. This team fits Poo's career well as well. He can flourish here if he plays like he did the second half of the season and into the playoffs with Brass and Zucc.

Brassard needs to be re-signed. Same with Zucc.

Richards will be bought out. I dont know who you replace him with. But we need a better center.

I'd love for Stralman to stay but who knows.

Who do we look at on the FA market? If Richards is bought out and Poo leaves we have two spots in the top 6. Do we look at Gaborik?

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06-16-2014, 02:13 PM
  #137
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Hell what do we know though? Maybe Sather said they can't afford him and it was time to move on. Maybe this is his media friendly excuse.
Yep, entirely possible.

REALLY going to miss Boyle. Awesome guy, at times a great player. Don't blame him and wish him the best.

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06-16-2014, 02:15 PM
  #138
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I don't blame him. Once the devastation leaves, he will be hungry wanting a cup next year.
I think he'll be an even bigger presence in the locker room next year and more likely to hold teammates feet to the fire

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06-16-2014, 02:15 PM
  #139
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Not sure if this has much significance but:

Richards will not meet with the media today. (Andrew Gross)
Probably had his exit interview today with AV and Slats. Guessing he got the notion that he wasn't in the team's plans going forward. Can blame the guy, he tried but the skill level and more importantly his ability in the clutch is not there any longer. He could probably still pot 20 goals next year and 50-60 points but at his cap hit he needs to be leading, not be complimentary.

Clear up his cap space for help resigning our RFA's and UFA's. If the Rangers are to go as far next season there cannot be a huge overhaul of our roster. Same thing happened after 2012, lost Prust, traded away Dubi and Arty, added Nash. The team wasn't as good after that. We actually are rolling 4 lines now, let too many guys go and we could be rolling 3 lines and be back to the beginning of last year all over again.

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06-16-2014, 02:15 PM
  #140
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“@AGrossRecord: AV says there are financial considerations but says he's a big "fan of Brad Richards" and Richards dealing with situation as a "pro."”

“@AGrossRecord: Vigneault says no final decision made yet on buying on Brad Richards. Organizational meetings upcoming.”

“@AGrossRecord: Vigneault asked about Rangers' desire to infuse more youth into lineup next season. "You have to, just look at LA."”

“@AGrossRecord: Vigneault was asked whether he can envision Kevin Klein in a top four D-man role: "He did that in Nashville."”

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06-16-2014, 02:16 PM
  #141
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bobbop spoke to Beukeboom and he said McIlrath is ready for play for the Rangers next season.

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06-16-2014, 02:17 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Precisely.

Saying "they're replaceable though" doesn't make it any better. Sure they're replaceable, but how many ****ing years has it taken this team to have a good 4th line? Like 20?
I definitely agree with the sentiment of this post. Not "irreplaceable " but certainly as we've seen capable bottom six players are often much harder to find than is often thought.

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06-16-2014, 02:18 PM
  #143
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“@AGrossRecord: Also interesting that Marty St. Louis, Brad Richards' longtime friend, also did not speak to the media today.”

edit:

“@AGrossRecord: Re: Marty St. Louis not speaking to media today. Told he had parent-teacher meeting for child, arrived at training center late.”


Last edited by nevesis: 06-16-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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06-16-2014, 02:21 PM
  #144
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Do we explore the possibility of Eric Staal? Ryan Kesler. Bigger centers that we could absolutely use up the middle in front of Stepan and Brassard.

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06-16-2014, 02:21 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
[B]

@AGrossRecord: Vigneault was asked whether he can envision Kevin Klein in a top four D-man role: "He did that in Nashville."
I was really impressed with Klein. He pinches way more than I anticipated and is mobile. He's responsible in his own end as well. I think he can play in the Top-4

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06-16-2014, 02:22 PM
  #146
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Do we explore the possibility of Eric Staal? Ryan Kesler. Bigger centers that we could absolutely use up the middle in front of Stepan and Brassard.
Ottawa will try to trade Spezza out west like they did with Heatley. Thornton might be a stretch because of his irrational hatred of the Rangers. Eric Staal is our only option, most likely.

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06-16-2014, 02:22 PM
  #147
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Another thing that can't be replaced is Boyle's locker room presence. Whether it be Del Zotto, Kreider, or Miller, he has always been close with the younger, less experienced players. Hopefully another one of our veterans will be able to step in and take on Boyle's role of mentor.

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06-16-2014, 02:24 PM
  #148
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Ottawa will try to trade Spezza out west like they did with Heatley. Thornton might be a stretch because of his irrational hatred of the Rangers. Eric Staal is our only option, most likely.
Joe Thornton isn't even a thought. He just re-signed.

I'm not interested in Spezza. I don't think his body will hold up over the long haul to make an investment in what it would cost to get him.

I don't think we have what it takes either to get Kesler though he plays that physical game we need.

I think Eric Staal, with a contract that expires after the 2016 season makes the most sense.

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06-16-2014, 02:26 PM
  #149
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Another thing that can't be replaced is Boyle's locker room presence. Whether it be Del Zotto, Kreider, or Miller, he has always been close with the younger, less experienced players. Hopefully another one of our veterans will be able to step in and take on Boyle's role of mentor.
Agreed. This is what concerns me the most. As bad as Richards was in the SCF...he took on a leadership role. Boyle has that same presence. You lose both of them and you worry about that lockerroom.

You have MSL, Henrik, and McDonagh but after that...

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06-16-2014, 02:30 PM
  #150
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What would be traded for E Staal? And how are the Rangers absorbing an 8.25 cap hit?

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