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Leblanc to Anaheim for a conditional draft pick (5th in 2015)

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Old
06-16-2014, 08:14 AM
  #451
LesHabs66
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Not a big loss. From what I've read he lacks motivation to hit the weights and train. Why would the Habs want to waste another roster spot for a guy that has yet to live up to his 1st round pick status? If he had his head screwed on properly he would be playing with the Habs instead of floundering in the minors. Whether he is a spoiled brat or not the coaches and upper management obviously do not like what they have seen from him since he was drafted and have sent him packing.

It isn't as though the Habs are giving away the next Wayne Gretzky to Anaheim. I like the concept of shipping off the less than motivated and clearing up a roster spot for someone else that wants to make it to the Habs roster.

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06-16-2014, 08:15 AM
  #452
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And AK had the same thing + A whole lot more talent.
Some may well dispute the intensity issue.

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06-16-2014, 09:07 AM
  #453
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The reality is that this team is starving for talent acquired during a draft for the past 5 years 2008-2012 [other than the no-brainer Galchenyuk] (2013 excluded). Add on to that the futility of the drafts of 2004, 2005 [except for Carey Price] and 2006.
Calling the 2004 draft which produced Emelin, Chipchura, Grabovksi, and Streit futile is just flat out wrong. 2005 brought Latendresse, S. Kostitsyn, and D'Agostini, another 3 NHL regulars who were traded away for next to nothing. 2006 wasn't great but White has become a regular player. Disagree that Galchenyuk was a no brainer. Grigorenko was right with him at the time and Forsberg was likely the safer pick. A player who missed his entire draft year with a knee injury can't be called a no brainer of a draft pick.

The 2008/09 drafts were disappointing. 2010 brought Gallagher and Tinordi, 2011 brought Beaulieu. Not really what I would describe as starved for talent. Both Beaulieu and Tinordi were likely NHL level players this year and could have been playing. Not the fault of Timmins that Murray and Bouillion were more attractive options to the coach, nor is it an indictment of our scouting that two forwards in Toffoli and Pearson have made earlier impacts than Beaulieu and Tinordi.

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We have had **** for drafts for most years with Timmins and he is hailed as the best by many here.

The results do not match the rhetoric.
Are we having this discussion with a top pairing of McDonagh-Subban and Pacioretty up front? I agree that we need more homegrown talent in the lineup but I don't know how you fault the scouting staff for that.

I just don't get your argument here. It's fine to say we don't have enough homegrown talent but how is that in any way the fault of amateur scouting when so many NHLers have been moved for next to nothing? Honestly I just don't know what you're talking about.


Last edited by Noob616: 06-16-2014 at 09:44 AM.
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06-16-2014, 09:40 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
And AK had the same thing + A whole lot more talent.
Don't know if AK had the intensity. He seemed like a guy trying to figure out where he should be on the ice most of the time that didn't know when to be intense and when to coast a bit. DLR seems like a guy with decent hockey sense but less skill that knows where to direct his intensity on the ice.

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06-16-2014, 09:55 AM
  #455
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Don't know if AK had the intensity. He seemed like a guy trying to figure out where he should be on the ice most of the time that didn't know when to be intense and when to coast a bit. DLR seems like a guy with decent hockey sense but less skill that knows where to direct his intensity on the ice.
If you define intensity that way, I'm completely fine with saying AK wasn't so good at managing it.


Anyhow, why can't we go for those kind of bargain ? Every team goes for some, every year and they mostly are a positive. This is a big win situation and no loss for Anaheim. They give nothing to us for Leblanc basically... A former 1st round pick that is not even north of 23.

Kyle Turris, Ben Bishop, Niederreiter, Grabner, Moulson, Read and co are all players that make or a break a franchise. While they certainly not top-flight quality, you need guys like that on your team.

Our pro scouts totally freaking suck. We've made some beautiful moves with the amateur scouts (Gallagher comes to mind) and we signed Diaz which was a pretty good acquisition, but damn, do we even have people scouting the AHL ?

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06-16-2014, 09:59 AM
  #456
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Calling the 2004 draft which produced Emelin, Chipchura, Grabovksi, and Streit futile is just flat out wrong. 2005 brought Latendresse, S. Kostitsyn, and D'Agostini, another 3 NHL regulars who were traded away for next to nothing. 2006 wasn't great but White has become a regular player. Disagree that Galchenyuk was a no brainer. Grigorenko was right with him at the time and Forsberg was likely the safer pick. A player who missed his entire draft year with a knee injury can't be called a no brainer of a draft pick.

The 2008/09 drafts were disappointing. 2010 brought Gallagher and Tinordi, 2011 brought Beaulieu. Not really what I would describe as starved for talent. Both Beaulieu and Tinordi were likely NHL level players this year and could have been playing. Not the fault of Timmins that Murray and Bouillion were more attractive options to the coach, nor is it an indictment of our scouting that two forwards in Toffoli and Pearson have made earlier impacts than Beaulieu and Tinordi.



Are we having this discussion with a top pairing of McDonagh-Subban and Pacioretty up front? I agree that we need more homegrown talent in the lineup but I don't know how you fault the scouting staff for that.

I just don't get your argument here. It's fine to say we don't have enough homegrown talent but how is that in any way the fault of amateur scouting when so many NHLers have been moved for next to nothing? Honestly I just don't know what you're talking about.
They're going to LOVE your defense of Timmins on this board. Well done. There's no better way to become popular here . I don't do it. I don't buy it, and I stick by it. If guys here don't like it, too bad. I go by evidence and truth, and the evidence is adding up.

Timmins has blown too many very important first round picks. It is true, it is undeniable. He's a good scout, but give me a break, he's not great. And it is costing Habs right now. **** hindsight. If Timmins was great, he should not need hindsight in the first round.

Sick of the crap on Timmins because some here want jobs with him. Stop lying. It's disgusting. It's like watching sycophantic little Hong Kong ministers looking for jobs with the Premier. The sun rises in the East, and Timmins has been **** and missed huge picks in the first round. Massive misses.

It is true.

And: my 'popularity' plummets another 20%. Who cares.


Last edited by bsl: 06-16-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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06-16-2014, 10:04 AM
  #457
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They're going to LOVE your defense of Timmins on this board. Well done. There's no better way to become popular here . I don't do it. I don't buy it, and I stick by it. If guys here don't like it, too bad. I go by evidence and truth, and the evidence is adding up.
It's simple you're faulting Timmins for the pro scouts fault, he has no part in that. Look around the league in the last 10 years and tell me someone has drafted better than Timmins.

Key word: Drafted.

It doesn't mean they have to be with the team. He doesn't make those decisions.

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06-16-2014, 10:32 AM
  #458
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When Timmins read off Leblanc's name at the draft, he didn't look too enthused. I don't think Leblanc was his pick

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06-16-2014, 10:34 AM
  #459
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Should just have stayed in school, no idea why he became a hockey player only to half ass it.

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06-16-2014, 10:35 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
They're going to LOVE your defense of Timmins on this board. Well done. There's no better way to become popular here . I don't do it. I don't buy it, and I stick by it. If guys here don't like it, too bad. I go by evidence and truth, and the evidence is adding up.

Timmins has blown too many very important first round picks. It is true, it is undeniable. He's a good scout, but give me a break, he's not great. And it is costing Habs right now. **** hindsight. If Timmins was great, he should not need hindsight in the first round.
Well first of all I'm in accounting and have no illusions of a career in amateur hockey scouting. Maybe I'll coach a peewee house league team some day if I have kids.

I've bolded picks I believe it's fair to call busts.

2003- Kostitsyn
2004- Chipchura
2005- Price
2006- Fischer
2007- McDonagh, Pacioretty
2008- No 1st round pick (Tanguay trade)
2009- Leblanc
2010- Tinordi
2011- Beaulieu
2012- Galchenyuk
2013- McCarron

So out of that list we have Fischer and Leblanc, and then Chipchura as a disappointment who was at least a regular NHLer. McCarron's been disappointing but it's way too early to call him a bust. Not really seeing the blown draft picks here. I don't know why you dismiss hindsight bias either. It's very relevant to discussing drafting, Leblanc hasn't panned out but it wasn't an unreasonable pick with the information at the time. He was developing fine and in the NHL at age 20 then his development just fell off a cliff.

Not sure what your expectations are or what you think is reasonable. Look around the league, the Kings drafted Hickey and Teubert in the first round. Chicago hasn't had a 1st round pick be a legit NHLer since 2007. 1st round picks bust all the time, every team has their own examples of David Fischer or Louis Leblanc.


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06-16-2014, 10:40 AM
  #461
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All this for a player who showed ZERO fire when he got called up this season? Yeesh.

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06-16-2014, 12:55 PM
  #462
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So....this Leblanc trade was made so that Anaheim would have some possible "backups" once they deplete their prospect pool in acquiring Spezza or Kesler? Let's hope for them it works out....But we might have our 5th after all....

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06-16-2014, 12:58 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
They're going to LOVE your defense of Timmins on this board. Well done. There's no better way to become popular here . I don't do it. I don't buy it, and I stick by it. If guys here don't like it, too bad. I go by evidence and truth, and the evidence is adding up.

Timmins has blown too many very important first round picks. It is true, it is undeniable. He's a good scout, but give me a break, he's not great. And it is costing Habs right now. **** hindsight. If Timmins was great, he should not need hindsight in the first round.

Sick of the crap on Timmins because some here want jobs with him. Stop lying. It's disgusting. It's like watching sycophantic little Hong Kong ministers looking for jobs with the Premier. The sun rises in the East, and Timmins has been **** and missed huge picks in the first round. Massive misses.

It is true.

And: my 'popularity' plummets another 20%. Who cares.
What does any of this mean? MOD

Who the hell wants a job with Timmins? Where is your proof that he has not drafted well.


Last edited by SoupNazi: 06-16-2014 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Nope
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06-16-2014, 01:02 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Well first of all I'm in accounting and have no illusions of a career in amateur hockey scouting. Maybe I'll coach a peewee house league team some day if I have kids.

I've bolded picks I believe it's fair to call busts.

2003- Kostitsyn
2004- Chipchura
2005- Price
2006- Fischer
2007- McDonagh, Pacioretty
2008- No 1st round pick (Tanguay trade)
2009- Leblanc
2010- Tinordi
2011- Beaulieu
2012- Galchenyuk
2013- McCarron

So out of that list we have Fischer and Leblanc, and then Chipchura as a disappointment who was at least a regular NHLer. McCarron's been disappointing but it's way too early to call him a bust. Not really seeing the blown draft picks here. I don't know why you dismiss hindsight bias either. It's very relevant to discussing drafting, Leblanc hasn't panned out but it wasn't an unreasonable pick with the information at the time. He was developing fine and in the NHL at age 20 then his development just fell off a cliff.

Not sure what your expectations are or what you think is reasonable. Look around the league, the Kings drafted Hickey and Teubert in the first round. Chicago hasn't had a 1st round pick be a legit NHLer since 2007. 1st round picks bust all the time, every team has their own examples of David Fischer or Louis Leblanc.
How is Chipchura a bust? He is an NHL regular who now has 342 games under his belt and signed for another year or two I believe. He was never picked expecting him to be a big time scorer but he does bring other things to the ice.

Of those you list only Fischer could be called a bust for sure. Leblanc is a little early to say, with this move he could end up having a decent career like Chipchura has done.

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06-16-2014, 01:03 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
They're going to LOVE your defense of Timmins on this board. Well done. There's no better way to become popular here . I don't do it. I don't buy it, and I stick by it. If guys here don't like it, too bad. I go by evidence and truth, and the evidence is adding up.

Timmins has blown too many very important first round picks. It is true, it is undeniable. He's a good scout, but give me a break, he's not great. And it is costing Habs right now. **** hindsight. If Timmins was great, he should not need hindsight in the first round.

Sick of the crap on Timmins because some here want jobs with him. Stop lying. It's disgusting. It's like watching sycophantic little Hong Kong ministers looking for jobs with the Premier. The sun rises in the East, and Timmins has been **** and missed huge picks in the first round. Massive misses.

It is true.

And: my 'popularity' plummets another 20%. Who cares.
Post your evidence and truth then and be done with it. We're all waiting.

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06-16-2014, 01:26 PM
  #466
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Post your evidence and truth then and be done with it. We're all waiting.
I dunno about you but that guys popularity went up 20% in my books!

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06-16-2014, 01:31 PM
  #467
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Chipchura is no bust, just hard to give 3d/4th line duties to a rookie/inexperienced center, which is why he was "traded" from mtl. He's most likley going to have some better years ahead of him as PHX started to give him more TOI towards the end of last season, and he brought a decent punch to the PHX lineup

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06-16-2014, 01:37 PM
  #468
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Stop being a hater. Are you jealous because Timmons has your dream job? Or is it because he's ripped like GSP? Comparing guys that played 11 games to guys who played 26 games doesn't require a genius intellect to determine who would have more points. If you're going to include Leblanc in your comparison why don't you include Vey 0 games and Nolan 3 games 0 points who were taken the same year as Leblanc?

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06-16-2014, 01:51 PM
  #469
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How is Chipchura a bust? He is an NHL regular who now has 342 games under his belt and signed for another year or two I believe. He was never picked expecting him to be a big time scorer but he does bring other things to the ice.

Of those you list only Fischer could be called a bust for sure. Leblanc is a little early to say, with this move he could end up having a decent career like Chipchura has done.
I disagree with Chipchura as a bust but I think it's somewhat fair to call him one and it's a disappointment that he's a 4th liner.

Honestly I was just being generous to his point. By bust I only meant a disappointing 1st rounder. I think if you get a legit NHLer like Chipchura that late in the 1st round you have to be somewhat happy with it. Same with Leblanc, I think he's at least a 4th liner but also think it's fair to call him a bust or a disappointment. So yeah, in 10 years Timmins has only picked one complete bust in Fischer, and Leblanc/Chipchura who were somewhat disappointing. Not really a track record to be upset about or an indication that our drafting sucks.

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06-16-2014, 02:00 PM
  #470
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Louis Leblanc getting a lot more love than he did while he still had some kind of future with us.

I'm not surprised -- posting history shows that we did manage to pull several threads for another contentious departing player, Rafael Diaz, even if ... Bergie turned out to be right and most here didn't properly assess Weise's fit and potential.

At this time next year, Leblanc will be an even smaller blip on the radar screen. But for now, by all means, let's continue to celebrate his mediocrity.

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06-16-2014, 08:42 PM
  #471
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What are you talking about?

2004 yielded four guys who are in the NHL (Chipchura, Emelin, Grabovski and Streit) and that are pretty good hockey players that play within their roles.

And comparing playoff point totals is, especially when one team played a fair number more games, is just plain stupid.
Fair enough.

Lets leave off the points and just use names.

Habs had Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Beaulieu (part time) in the lineup.

The Kings had Doughty,Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov and Clifford in the lineup.


Take off the fanboy hat and post up which group of players had more impact on their team with regard to production and success.....the Habs group or the Kings group.

Just because a player was drafted and made it to the NHL and spent their time as a bottom pairing/bottom 6 player does not mean that the person who drafted them is some sort of wizard or better than all the rest.

Timmins is an average scout. One really great year, one really great goalie and we are still waiting to see how 2013 pans out.

The rest has been average at best. But damn, the guy is loved here even though this team has not made it to the SC Finals and we are still looking for offensive firepower even as a lot of people talk about trading Pacioretty.


Last edited by SouthernHab: 06-16-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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06-16-2014, 08:48 PM
  #472
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Stop being a hater. Are you jealous because Timmons has your dream job? Or is it because he's ripped like GSP? Comparing guys that played 11 games to guys who played 26 games doesn't require a genius intellect to determine who would have more points. If you're going to include Leblanc in your comparison why don't you include Vey 0 games and Nolan 3 games 0 points who were taken the same year as Leblanc?
To be honest with you, I have never paid attention to how well a coach or scout in any sport is "ripped" or any other physical attribute.

Is this the reason people like Timmins? Because of his physical appearance?

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06-16-2014, 09:07 PM
  #473
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Chipchura is no bust, just hard to give 3d/4th line duties to a rookie/inexperienced center, which is why he was "traded" from mtl. He's most likley going to have some better years ahead of him as PHX started to give him more TOI towards the end of last season, and he brought a decent punch to the PHX lineup
He's carved himself a decent career as a 4th line/3rd replacement centre. He will have 400 nhl games played next season.

Like you said, most teams want an experience guy as their 4th line centre.

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06-16-2014, 09:56 PM
  #474
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He's carved himself a decent career as a 4th line/3rd replacement centre. He will have 400 nhl games played next season.

Like you said, most teams want an experience guy as their 4th line centre.
A first round fourth line player?

And this is supposed to be a success because teams have 4 lines and needs a center for the 4th.

I like your posts Andy but this one is stretching it a lot.

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06-17-2014, 01:31 AM
  #475
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To be honest with you, I have never paid attention to how well a coach or scout in any sport is "ripped" or any other physical attribute.

Is this the reason people like Timmins? Because of his physical appearance?
You would too if you saw him

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