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Off-season discussion Part 2 (All your ****** proposals go here)

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Old
06-16-2014, 06:27 PM
  #576
S Bah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'd be disappointed if Kane is all we got in return for Patches.
Kane has broken the 20 goal mark once, in 5 seasons. Even in a scoring pace, he doesn't break the 30 goal mark over 82.
30 goals is what is expected of MaxPac at the very least.

Also Kane has been made a healthy scratch before. There is controversy around him.
Let's not forget Max probably has the best contract in the NHL right now.

So no. I don't think it's a 1 for 1.

But in Mtl, if you hit, you're value triples. That's why Murray was put in during the POs despite clearly being an inferior Dman.

Max is worth more than Kane.
While going back a few years, my thinking was a Pacioretty for Kane deal would have been, basically equal and really a waste of time in paperwork. Now it would be absolutely catastrophic to team chemistry for the Habs and completely lopsided in Winnipeg's favor.

All of the work that our GM has made bringing our team together, building a team that is one, premier hockey players want to be a part of would disappear. Pacioretty is the type of player, selfless and a total team player, that our GM probably use as an example of what he envisions as his typical Hab.

Max's contract exemplifies the type of teammate and team oriented player that he has shown himself to be, amongst most if not all of the Habs. The Habs are a team that has drafted prospects based around abilities, along with character/leadership. Qualities that teams at all levels in hockey find in player(s) to build playoff teams around.

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Old
06-16-2014, 06:36 PM
  #577
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Shawn Thornton is available!!!!!! (source: tsn.ca).
Would be funny to see him in a Hab jersey (1 yr) fighting Bruin players for a change!!!! Won't happen though!!

And then we also add Iginla!!
(I'd take him for 2-3 yrs).


Galchenyuk-Pleks-Iginla/Gallagher
Pacioretty-DD-Gallagher/Iginla
Bourque-Eller-Vrbata??/Hemsky??!/Gionta??/Moulson??
Prust/Moen-Briere/White-Weise

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Old
06-16-2014, 06:48 PM
  #578
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Armchair GM:

To Florida - DD + Pateryn (Fla needs forwards and young D)
To Mtl - Kulikov (RFA that wants more than FLA will pay)

To Buff - Brierie + 4th
To Mtl - 3rd

To Wpg - Pleks, Bourque, Fucale
To Mtl - Kane, Big Butt Buff

To Col - 1st, Gorges, rights to Markov
To Mtl - ROR

To Det - Nygren, Budai, Moen + 2nd
To Mtl - Jurco

Sign Matt Greene & Brian Boyle (or McClement)

Kane ROR Gallagher
Pac Galch Buff
Bournival Eller Jurco
Prust Boyle Weise
White

Beaulieu PK
Kulikov Green
Tinordi Emelin
Weaver

Price, Tokarski

Buff + PK on point for first PP. Beaulieu + Kulikov on 2nd wave.

I know i am dreaming but it was fun.

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06-16-2014, 07:04 PM
  #579
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
No way. How about Andrighetto + ... + 1st for Marleau?
Are the sharks planning to tank??
Even if they did, no way they make this trade. Marleau would fetch them a much bigger return.

Anyways, people think the Sharks are going to blow their team up but I see no reason for them doing this. It must have certainly been disappointing being a Sharks fan these past years but they're in a stacked conference. The West is insane. I mean, Sharks and Blues don't even make it to round 2? That's nuts. Either team would have likely made the Finals in the East.

Panicking and blowing up the team would be the last thing I want if I were a Sharks fan.

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Old
06-16-2014, 07:23 PM
  #580
vokiel
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Are the sharks planning to tank??
Even if they did, no way they make this trade. Marleau would fetch them a much bigger return.

Anyways, people think the Sharks are going to blow their team up but I see no reason for them doing this. It must have certainly been disappointing being a Sharks fan these past years but they're in a stacked conference. The West is insane. I mean, Sharks and Blues don't even make it to round 2? That's nuts. Either team would have likely made the Finals in the East.

Panicking and blowing up the team would be the last thing I want if I were a Sharks fan.
Yeah I agree, I wouldn't target Marleau anyway.

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Old
06-16-2014, 07:46 PM
  #581
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Apparently Renaud Lavoie is reporting a deal is close and could be announced tomorrow, re: Dale Weise

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06-16-2014, 07:58 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
Apparently Renaud Lavoie is reporting a deal is close and could be announced tomorrow, re: Dale Weise
JT Utah might not have been that far off after all. We'll see if his numbers happen to be 2 years 2M$.

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06-16-2014, 08:12 PM
  #583
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Stasny and Niskanen?

We know we have a void that needs to be filled on the back end, and were also giving up on Vanek, which as much as I hate his work ethic and lack of heart, still puts up the points. Should we pick up these guys?

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06-16-2014, 08:14 PM
  #584
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Yeah

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Old
06-16-2014, 08:16 PM
  #585
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Niskanen sucks whoever pays him will regret it immediately.

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06-16-2014, 08:20 PM
  #586
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...I'm not sold on Niskanen...depends on what the story is with Markov, what he wants and who we're bidding against...if we want Stastny, it's gotta be because we traded at least one of our other centres away (Pleks, DD, Eller...no immediately to Galchenyuk and I don't count Briere, who we need to dump anyways)...

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06-16-2014, 08:21 PM
  #587
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No. Stastny has been a 50-60pt center over the past 4 years. He's not really an upgrade over anybody here and if we're going to give a spot to a center I rather see what Galchenyuk could do, who I expect to be better than Stastny anyways.

Niskanen had a high in Pittsburgh, I don't think he will repeat. He's not that good of a Dman.
Markov is better.


So no, I wouldn't go after either player.

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Old
06-16-2014, 08:22 PM
  #588
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None of the above

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Old
06-16-2014, 08:31 PM
  #589
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Oh course for Stasny !

People really think that we shouldn't sign a player and give up no assets and trade a player and get assets back ?

That is a win win situation.

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06-16-2014, 08:46 PM
  #590
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Replacing Markov with Niskanen would be a disaster. In fact, replacing Markov with anything less than a versatile top 3 D man (not league wide) would be disastrous.

I can't believe how much Markov's contributions have been overlooked and underappreciated this season. We already saw what happened once when the team didn't have an adequate stop-gap for Markov's loss in 2011-2012...the team finished last in the east.

Hamrlik helped shoulder the load of losing Markov in those years he kept getting injured, and Subban did a good job as a rookie in filling in on another pairing while Hamrlik held his own. Let's not kid ourselves, after Subban and Markov, there isn't a single d-man on the club that could fill in for Markov the way Hamrlik did. The drop after these two d-men is huge. Unless Beaulieu and Tinordi take massive strides next season, there is not a single D-man who replace Markov right now.

He lost mobility for sure, but Markov is still a really effective defender. He can no longer carry his partner, but don't get yourself, Markov would still be a first pairing D on most teams and I would say 90% of the teams in the nhl would still play him 20+ minutes a night.

The only UFA that can fill in for Markov this off-season is Boyle. Considering his age, I'd rather just stick with Markov.

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06-16-2014, 08:49 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Replacing Markov with Niskanen would be a disaster. In fact, replacing Markov with anything less than a versatile top 3 D man (not league wide) would be disastrous.

I can't believe how much Markov's contributions have been overlooked and underappreciated this season. We already saw what happened once when the team didn't have an adequate stop-gap for Markov's loss in 2011-2012...the team finished last in the east.

Hamrlik helped shoulder the load of losing Markov in those years he kept getting injured, and Subban did a good job as a rookie in filling in on another pairing while Hamrlik held his own. Let's not kid ourselves, after Subban and Markov, there isn't a single d-man on the club that could fill in for Markov the way Hamrlik did. The drop after these two d-men is huge. Unless Beaulieu and Tinordi take massive strides next season, there is not a single D-man who replace Markov right now.

He lost mobility for sure, but Markov is still a really effective defender. He can no longer carry his partner, but don't get yourself, Markov would still be a first pairing D on most teams and I would say 90% of the teams in the nhl would still play him 20+ minutes a night.

The only UFA that can fill in for Markov this off-season is Boyle. Considering his age, I'd rather just stick with Markov.
All this is true. But at 6M$ per for 3 years?

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Old
06-16-2014, 08:51 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
All this is true. But at 6M$ per for 3 years?
I would do 1 yr $6m or even $6.25m, if 2 yrs max i go is $5.85m.

I don't understand why they cant work out a deal that will have low cap hit like 4m and add 2m in bonuses.

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Old
06-16-2014, 08:54 PM
  #593
Andy
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
All this is true. But at 6M$ per for 3 years?
Yes, absolutely. Lose Markov without replacing him and the team plummets this year, I have no doubt about this. Having that happen means squandering Price, Pacioretty and Subban's prime years. The Canadiens should be looking towards the cup moving forward here. As I said, these aforementioned players who are the core of their team are currently in their prime and they are being supported by a younger cast in Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk who hopefully will be entering their primes or taking the next step shortly, while Beaulieu and Tinordi will be learning the ropes. The time to compete is now and Markov must be part of that plan considering the alternative options.

Losing Markov right now who is a legit top 3 d-man on 95% of the teams in the nhl without a proper replacement would be the hugest of blows and would just waste what Subban, Price and Pacioretty can offer right now.

I don't think a single team would hesitate offering Markov that money and term should he hit free agency. The Habs need to look for another Hamrlik type to support Markov and Subban, not a Markov replacement. They should be adding to that duo, not maintaining a duo.

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Old
06-16-2014, 09:02 PM
  #594
Whitesnake
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Yes, absolutely. Lose Markov without replacing him and the team plummets this year, I have no doubt about this. Having that happen means squandering Price, Pacioretty and Subban's prime years. The Canadiens should be looking towards the cup moving forward here. As I said, these aforementioned players who are the core of their team are currently in their prime and they are being supported by a younger cast in Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk who hopefully will be entering their primes or taking the next step shortly, while Beaulieu and Tinordi will be learning the ropes. The time to compete is now and Markov must be part of that plan considering the alternative options.

Losing Markov right now who is a legit top 3 d-man on 95% of the teams in the nhl without a proper replacement would be the hugest of blows and would just waste what Subban, Price and Pacioretty can offer right now.

I don't think a single team would hesitate offering Markov that money and term should he hit free agency. The Habs need to look for another Hamrlik type to support Markov and Subban, not a Markov replacement. They should be adding to that duo, not maintaining a duo.
Well Galchenyuk is not ready to be centering a top 6 in a cup contending team. So personnally, I would have NO problem taking 1 step back (missing the playoffs) to then be contending for the next 10 years if you want. So if it means not signing Markov and giving me a top 10 or hopefully and even better pick in an INSANE 2015 draft class? For the next 10 years of pure joy? ABSOLUTELY. Do people know how great 2015 will be? 2015 will be what 2003 was. And 2003 CHANGED dramatically the face of franchises. So I would take one step back. As much as I we like to think he will be just as great for all of his 3 years....I don,t believe Markov will have in him to be a dominant force when we will need him the most.

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06-16-2014, 09:14 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No. Stastny has been a 50-60pt center over the past 4 years. He's not really an upgrade over anybody here and if we're going to give a spot to a center I rather see what Galchenyuk could do, who I expect to be better than Stastny anyways.

Niskanen had a high in Pittsburgh, I don't think he will repeat. He's not that good of a Dman.
Markov is better.


So no, I wouldn't go after either player.
Interesting, given how much love both players have been getting here.

So, how do you proceed if Markov isn't signed?

Also, how do we get DD off the first line without any player movement -- I very much doubt MT is going to change his ways if he inherits a similar lineup.

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06-16-2014, 09:55 PM
  #596
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i dont even see a problem with 3 year 18 milions . he has easily 2 good year left.I dont care paying him 1 year too much for all the years he's been with the habs.

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06-16-2014, 10:04 PM
  #597
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Jesus Christ. When's the last time you've seen a trade that Massive? Also no. Patches is worth Kane 1 for 1, I'd say, Bogosian is not worth Emilin, Tokarski, Desharnais, and White. Cormier is worth about what leblanc was at this point..
right now, Patches (25) is more valuable 1 on 1 than Kane (22)... at 22, Patches had 20 career goals vs Kane who just "struggled" to a 19 goal season, giving him 99 goals for his career.

In 3 years from now, it may not even be close in comparing the two.

Does Kane have some maturing to do? Sure, what 22 year old doesn't. His combo of skill, skating, toughness and competitivness is hard to find. Patches only has 3 of the 4, and our team lacks the toughness component more than anything.

Bogosian is easily worth Emelin/Tokarski. Desharnais has minimal value. Cormier is a downgrade from White, though recently re-signed to 4-year extension bench boss we have clearly doesn't have much faith in White... who may have some appeal to his hometown team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeBeaver View Post
Cormier is garbage.

If you're trading most of our top line I expect a better return than that.
Kane-Galch-Gally would quickly make us forget about Patches-DD-X.

Cormier is depth 4th line size/grit, and while not as skilled as White, may prove to be slightly better defensively... white's not sniffing the 3rd line under Therrien, so his better offensive i.q is of no real use for how we use him (and in fact probably contributes to part of why MT uses him so little... the occasional turnovers by trying to get a bit fancy vs simply dumping and grinding)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
While going back a few years, my thinking was a Pacioretty for Kane deal would have been, basically equal and really a waste of time in paperwork. Now it would be absolutely catastrophic to team chemistry for the Habs and completely lopsided in Winnipeg's favor.

All of the work that our GM has made bringing our team together, building a team that is one, premier hockey players want to be a part of would disappear. Pacioretty is the type of player, selfless and a total team player, that our GM probably use as an example of what he envisions as his typical Hab.

Max's contract exemplifies the type of teammate and team oriented player that he has shown himself to be, amongst most if not all of the Habs. The Habs are a team that has drafted prospects based around abilities, along with character/leadership. Qualities that teams at all levels in hockey find in player(s) to build playoff teams around.
?
i get the "returning from injury quickly" measuring stick... but beyond that, when/how has Patches shown himself to be a selfless team player?

His contract? are you kidding me? at the time he got both security & $$ that far outpaced his actual contributions to that point... almost polar opposite of the contract they shoved down PK's throat (they as in the organization, obviously different managment). That deal was a no-brainer for Patches at the time, and a saavy extension on our part but one with a fair amount of risk...

Beyond that, I've seen Patches float by as his teammates get roughed up in front of either net one to many times to buy any of the rahrah team guy comments on him.

I mean, come on... the guy is one of the biggest players on the team, yet when's the last time you recall him stepping up for one of his smaller teammates getting roughted up? How many times did you see Gallagher going toe-to-toe with monsters, with Patches hugging some other non-combatant in the background?

Don't tget me wrong... I like patches. I don't begrudge him for not wanting or believing in the b.s physical rough stuff that often breaks out (which he had little experience with growing up in the CT system or the NCAA). But i can't call a big guy who disapears when his smaller teammates get manhandled a "selfless total team player"... not in a million years.

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06-16-2014, 10:14 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No. Stastny has been a 50-60pt center over the past 4 years. He's not really an upgrade over anybody here and if we're going to give a spot to a center I rather see what Galchenyuk could do, who I expect to be better than Stastny anyways.

Niskanen had a high in Pittsburgh, I don't think he will repeat. He's not that good of a Dman.
Markov is better.


So no, I wouldn't go after either player.
Stastny is a clear updgrade on DD. (equal playmaking ability, superior skater/size/shot, consistent 20 goal scorer, consistently better point producer, better defensively).

What are the odds Galch gets a shot full time at C as long as DD is still here?

would the team be confident going with Pleks-Galch-Eller?

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06-16-2014, 10:25 PM
  #599
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Stastny would only be a marginal upgrade at twice the cap hit.

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Old
06-16-2014, 10:52 PM
  #600
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Alright homies here's my 2014-15 roster:

Pacioretty-Statsny-Callahan
Kane-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Andrighetto
Prust-Bournival-Weise
Moen

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Emelin
Beaulieu-Weaver
Tinordi

Price
Tokarski

------------------------------------------

Trade Plekanec, De La Rose and Fucale to the PEG for Kane.

Trade David Desharnais to the Panthers for a 2nd-3rd round pick whatever.

Trade Budaj to the Coyotes for a 5th.

Trade Danny B. to Buffalo for a 5th.

-------------------------------------------

Sign Paul Statsny for 5 years 7M average.

Sign Ryan Callahan for 5 years 6,5M average.

--------------------------------------------

Give Ghetto the 3rd line RW spot.

--------------------------------------------

Close your XBOX.

--------------------------------------------


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