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Oilers Gearing Up Big Push for Phaneuf

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06-17-2014, 06:24 AM
  #976
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Would this type of move, Leafs trading Dion, mean they are going into a rebuild mode of sorts?
IF the Leafs sold of a few veterans (say Phaneuf, Lupul, Franson, Reimer, etc.), even if Kessel were included and sold off, it wouldnt be a full rebuild.

When Edmonton/NYI/etc started their respective rebuild, they didnt have Rielly, Kadri, Gardiner, JVR, Bernier, etc calibre players who were 25 and under, AND they didnt get the types of combined trade returns the Leafs would get by selling off the above players.

If the Leafs sold off those veterans, they'd probably struggle for one season, and then be a bubble team again within 2-3 years (especially after factoring in the ~25M in capspace that would create which could be used to add some veterans). I couldnt see it being a 4-6 year process.

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06-17-2014, 06:25 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
One scout, who watches the player more than likely more than you have, so if he had Ritchie first several months ago, I doubt there is much separation as people are mentioning if at all.
A lot changes in a year for junior prospects, now show one scouting report now that has him ranked 1st overall. Nick Ebert was a prospect going into junior who was forecasted by scouts to go 1st overall in 2012. and btw he was the last pick that draft. There is a big drop after the top 4 or 5 in the draft this year its common knowledge.

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06-17-2014, 06:25 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Would this type of move, Leafs trading Dion, mean they are going into a rebuild mode of sorts?
I don't want the Leafs to trade Dion, but if they do, I hope they rebuild. Our d-corps will compete for worst in the league if he's gone and the Leafs can't bring anyone to replace him. Also, with Carlyle as our coach, we'll probably lose a lot of games anyway. So, it looks like we'll suck anyway next season.

McDavid here we come!

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06-17-2014, 06:30 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by CaptainLupul View Post
I don't want the Leafs to trade Dion, but if they do, I hope they rebuild. Our d-corps will compete for worst in the league if he's gone and the Leafs can't bring anyone to replace him. Also, with Carlyle as our coach, we'll probably lose a lot of games anyway. So, it looks like we'll suck anyway next season.

McDavid here we come!
I would say not Leafs have some good dmen Gardiner Reilly Gunnarson it would be weaker but not the worst.

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06-17-2014, 06:43 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
A lot changes in a year for junior prospects, now show one scouting report now that has him ranked 1st overall. Nick Ebert was a prospect going into junior who was forecasted by scouts to go 1st overall in 2012. and btw he was the last pick that draft. There is a big drop after the top 4 or 5 in the draft this year its common knowledge.
Yup a lot changes in a year and I'm sure a lot can change in their post draft year next year. Which means the idea of there being a big drop off after the top 4 or 5 or 6 if you include Nylander is not reliable at all. If anything, I see it more of a positional situation, where mostly the centers are the ones that are picked early and the wingers come later.

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06-17-2014, 06:46 AM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
A lot changes in a year for junior prospects, now show one scouting report now that has him ranked 1st overall. Nick Ebert was a prospect going into junior who was forecasted by scouts to go 1st overall in 2012. and btw he was the last pick that draft. There is a big drop after the top 4 or 5 in the draft this year its common knowledge.
This isn't true at all. It was the Nail versus Mikhail race until about March. Prior to the season, Ebert was expected to be top five, yes, but he fell as far as he did because he had a terrible season and showed Daigle levels of work ethic. Not comparable in my opinion

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06-17-2014, 06:48 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Yup a lot changes in a year and I'm sure a lot can change in their post draft year next year. Which means the idea of there being a big drop off after the top 4 or 5 or 6 if you include Nylander is not reliable at all. If anything, I see it more of a positional situation, where mostly the centers are the ones that are picked early and the wingers come later.
So if you had the #3 pick, you pick Nylander?

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06-17-2014, 06:54 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
So if you had the #3 pick, you pick Nylander?
Considering if the ISS had the number 5 pick they would pick Nylander, getting him 2 spots early isnt that big of a stretch. If Reinhart and Ekblad are gone, I don't know who I'd pick to be honest.

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06-17-2014, 07:05 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by FrozenJagrt View Post
This isn't true at all. It was the Nail versus Mikhail race until about March. Prior to the season, Ebert was expected to be top five, yes, but he fell as far as he did because he had a terrible season and showed Daigle levels of work ethic. Not comparable in my opinion
When he first entered junior he was touted as a future 1st overall . Not his draft year which is my point things change quickly in junior players drop. Ritchie's offense was a disappointment from what was expected of him why he has dropped.So Leaf fans can pretend all they want that the 8th pick has as good of players at 8 then 3rd they are fooling themselves.

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06-17-2014, 07:32 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
When he first entered junior he was touted as a future 1st overall . Not his draft year which is my point things change quickly in junior players drop. Ritchie's offense was a disappointment from what was expected of him why he has dropped.So Leaf fans can pretend all they want that the 8th pick has as good of players at 8 then 3rd they are fooling themselves.
Given the conversation is about Phaneuf and 3rd overall, if you look at the past 20 years worth of 3rd overall picks, there's about a 30% chance of landing someone of Phaneuf's calibre (someone who ranks as high as he does as consistently at his position).

3rd overall isn't the sure shot many people think it is.

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06-17-2014, 07:34 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Given the conversation is about Phaneuf and 3rd overall, if you look at the past 20 years worth of 3rd overall picks, there's about a 30% chance of landing someone of Phaneuf's calibre (someone who ranks as high as he does as consistently at his position).

3rd overall isn't the sure shot many people think it is.
Phaneuf is not worth a 3rd Overall not with his lengthy contract 7 million a year on a dman who has regressed a little each year. Wont happen 1 on 1 .

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06-17-2014, 07:55 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
When he first entered junior he was touted as a future 1st overall . Not his draft year which is my point things change quickly in junior players drop. Ritchie's offense was a disappointment from what was expected of him why he has dropped.So Leaf fans can pretend all they want that the 8th pick has as good of players at 8 then 3rd they are fooling themselves.
Don't know how you can be that confident in the 3rd overall. In the 2012 draft, there are already 3 or 4 players taken after the 8th pick that I'd take over the first overall and its only been 2 years later.

The players that might be available at 8 certainly can be as good as the one taken at third. Ehlers has basically matched Reinhart and Bennett's offensive production. It has been said that Nylander is probably the most skilled player in the draft. And as I stated before, a scout had Ritchie first overall earlier in the season. If you don't think there are players that could be better than the third overall, I don't know what to tell you.

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06-17-2014, 08:02 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Don't know how you can be that confident in the 3rd overall. In the 2012 draft, there are already 3 or 4 players taken after the 8th pick that I'd take over the first overall and its only been 2 years later.
The players that might be available at 8 certainly can be as good as the one taken at third. Ehlers has basically matched Reinhart and Bennett's offensive production. It has been said that Nylander is probably the most skilled player in the draft. And as I stated before, a scout had Ritchie first overall earlier in the season. If you don't think there are players that could be better than the third overall, I don't know what to tell you.
The bottom line is this....Oiler fans don't want Phaneuf. I am more than fine with this, the Leafs have other options. I am more than sure that other teams would be interested....Caps/Flyers/Ducks/Avs are all rumoured to be looking for a top D. The other option....we keep him, which I am also more than happy with.

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06-17-2014, 08:08 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Don't know how you can be that confident in the 3rd overall. In the 2012 draft, there are already 3 or 4 players taken after the 8th pick that I'd take over the first overall and its only been 2 years later.

The players that might be available at 8 certainly can be as good as the one taken at third. Ehlers has basically matched Reinhart and Bennett's offensive production. It has been said that Nylander is probably the most skilled player in the draft. And as I stated before, a scout had Ritchie first overall earlier in the season. If you don't think there are players that could be better than the third overall, I don't know what to tell you.
Of course there can be but history says it does not happen often , and the top 3 picks have all been placed number one on scouting bureaus. Also there has been 1 draft since 2012 so its like saying in Stamkos draft you would of picked many players ahead of Stamkos his first season including the likes of Bogosian who had a better campaign tern him. But would you now. The 2012 draft is way to early to conclude who are the best. Also scouting is a lot better now look at last decade and the top 3 choices.

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06-17-2014, 08:14 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
Of course there can be but history says it does not happen often , and the top 3 picks have all been placed number one on scouting bureaus. Also there has been 1 draft since 2012 so its like saying in Stamkos draft you would of picked many players ahead of Stamkos his first season including the likes of Bogosian who had a better campaign tern him. But would you now. The 2012 draft is way to early to conclude who are the best. Also scouting is a lot better now look at last decade and the top 3 choices.
That's fine but if its too early to conclude who are the best in a draft from 2 years ago then its certainly to early to make any kind of assessment on the current draft, especially if you're gonna claim there is a big drop off after the top 3, or top 4 or top 5.


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06-17-2014, 08:32 AM
  #991
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Wow.... Phaneuf regularly gets schooled in the EAST.

So who thinks the Oil (in the WEST) would move quaility assets for Dion who is at 7X7 & moving past his prime?????

The Oil paid dearly for this #3 pick.....people forget how tough last year was for Oil fans? #3 could still end up being Ekblad, who in their right mind would take Dion over Ekblad?????

I'd make a pitch for S Weber if I'm trading #3 ++++

IMHO, the Oil have suffered this long might as well go the distance!

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06-17-2014, 08:38 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by BJCOLLINS View Post
Wow.... Phaneuf regularly gets schooled in the EAST.

So who thinks the Oil (in the WEST) would move quaility assets for Dion who is at 7X7 & moving past his prime?????

The Oil paid dearly for this #3 pick.....people forget how tough last year was for Oil fans? #3 could still end up being Ekblad, who in their right mind would take Dion over Ekblad?????

I'd make a pitch for S Weber if I'm trading #3 ++++

IMHO, the Oil have suffered this long might as well go the distance!
I really don't think you have anything to worry about. The Oil won't be trading that pick for Phaneuf. This is an Eklund rumour. It's not to be taken seriously.

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06-17-2014, 08:39 AM
  #993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJCOLLINS View Post
Wow.... Phaneuf regularly gets schooled in the EAST.

So who thinks the Oil (in the WEST) would move quaility assets for Dion who is at 7X7 & moving past his prime?????

The Oil paid dearly for this #3 pick.....people forget how tough last year was for Oil fans? #3 could still end up being Ekblad, who in their right mind would take Dion over Ekblad?????

I'd make a pitch for S Weber if I'm trading #3 ++++

IMHO, the Oil have suffered this long might as well go the distance!
That would have to be one of the secondary pieces if you're making a push for Shea Weber, one or two of your big four would have to be added ++.. Even then, Poile has come out and said he isn't trading Weber, but building around him. That isn't very realistic at all.

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06-17-2014, 08:41 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Given the conversation is about Phaneuf and 3rd overall, if you look at the past 20 years worth of 3rd overall picks, there's about a 30% chance of landing someone of Phaneuf's calibre (someone who ranks as high as he does as consistently at his position).

3rd overall isn't the sure shot many people think it is.
the bolded word is the reason why this thread is so long. Dion had the potential to be a generational talent. He has the raw skills to be a vrey good defenceman. unfortunately, he seems to lack the hockey sense to play in his own zone. He is terrible at defence which is a problem if you are a defenceman.

This might be ok if he is puting up top 10 scoring and some double dion hits. Another problem is that his offence seems to be drying up. Last year, he was 47th in dman scoring putting up 1/2 of his career high. his points / min played is no longer top 50 in the nhl.

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06-17-2014, 08:55 AM
  #995
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