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The Bystander Approach

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Old
06-17-2014, 11:32 AM
  #1
Kadri43
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The Bystander Approach

What do you think of the bystander approach and its increasing influence in criminological, sociological and feminist discourse to limit freedom of expression? Is the ever increasing pressure to limit "unacceptable" speech (whether it be anti-gay, objectifying women and racist comments) an infringement on the freedom of expression or do you see it as furthering disadvantaged groups? Should an individual be allowed to express the best and worst idea or should he/she be limited to only comments that will not insult someone else?

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06-17-2014, 11:37 AM
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Do Make Say Think
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You again!

I thought we had gotten rid of you

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Old
06-17-2014, 11:43 AM
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WarriorOfGandhi
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I don't know anything about it, but I do know a guy who's had several papers published in criminology while getting a graduate degree at a highly respected university. I'll ask him about it.

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06-17-2014, 11:44 AM
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Kadri43
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Originally Posted by Do Make Say Think View Post
You again!

I thought we had gotten rid of you
I will not be sticking around for very long, which is comforting for both me and my dissenters.

I made this thread due to the inability to truly express my opinions on the matter in my department due to the unfortunate presence of a dominating feminist monopoly.

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06-17-2014, 11:48 AM
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Do Make Say Think
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It's a complex matter but I think I agree with you on the matter

Academia feminism (not necessarily feminism as a whole) is a plight on society

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06-17-2014, 11:52 AM
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mongolman
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
I will not be sticking around for very long, which is comforting for both me and my dissenters.

I made this thread due to the inability to truly express my opinions on the matter in my department due to the unfortunate presence of a dominating feminist monopoly.
What is your department?

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06-17-2014, 11:55 AM
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Kadri43
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Originally Posted by Do Make Say Think View Post
Academia feminism (not necessarily feminism as a whole) is a plight on society
This is exactly how I feel on the matter.

I look around in my department and the professors and students most inspired by feminism are the traditional stereotype: unpleasant to look at, overweight, socially awkward etc... They blame their life miseries on men who have continuously objectified them.

If I ever expressed my actual views to fellow students or professors, I would be eternally shunned for future advancement in scholarships, publications, etc...

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06-17-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
What do you think of the bystander approach and its increasing influence in criminological, sociological and feminist discourse to limit freedom of expression? Is the ever increasing pressure to limit "unacceptable" speech (whether it be anti-gay, objectifying women and racist comments) an infringement on the freedom of expression or do you see it as furthering disadvantaged groups? Should an individual be allowed to express the best and worst idea or should he/she be limited to only comments that will not insult someone else?
Free speech is infringed upon how?

PS Not using speech that objectifies women is no longer tolerated in corporate contexts.

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06-17-2014, 12:01 PM
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To stay on topic, should you or I be freely able to express our sexual exploits of women without the constant fear of reprisal? Is articulating that a girl has nice **** and you would like to f uck her a legitimate form of expression that feminists need to shut up about?

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06-17-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
To stay on topic, should you or I be freely able to express our sexual exploits of women without the constant fear of reprisal? Is articulating that a girl has nice **** and you would like to f uck her a legitimate form of expression that feminists need to shut up about?
What kind of reprisal? People thinking that you're an inappropriate, immature tool for talking that way with and around your colleagues?

But, whatever, fight for the rights of dickheads everywhere if you must.

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06-17-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
To stay on topic, should you or I be freely able to express our sexual exploits of women without the constant fear of reprisal? Is articulating that a girl has nice **** and you would like to f uck her a legitimate form of expression that feminists need to shut up about?
I think it's contextual, honestly. That type of speech in any professional environment (e.g., an academic department, at the office, etc.) is unacceptable IMO. You should be presenting yourself in a professional manner with your professor and fellow students. Articulating those feelings with your buddies (who you know you can trust) at the local bar is a different story.

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06-17-2014, 12:13 PM
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Kadri43
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Originally Posted by mongolman View Post
I think it's contextual, honestly. That type of speech in any professional environment (e.g., an academic department, at the office, etc.) is unacceptable IMO. You should be presenting yourself in a professional manner with your professor and fellow students. Articulating those feelings with your buddies (who you know you can trust) at the local bar is a different story.
I agree to an extent with this. On the other hand, the more you limit what is unacceptable, the lower the threshold becomes. There is acceptable and unacceptable language at either end of the spectrum and the more statements that become unacceptable, the more likely that previously acceptable statements may become intolerable.

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06-17-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
I agree to an extent with this. On the other hand, the more you limit what is unacceptable, the lower the threshold becomes. There is acceptable and unacceptable language at either end of the spectrum and the more statements that become unacceptable, the more likely that previously acceptable statements may become intolerable.
Would you find it acceptable for the women in your workplace to publicly mock your laughably small penis?

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06-17-2014, 12:27 PM
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Would you find it acceptable for the women in your workplace to publicly mock your laughably small penis?
Only if she can prove on a balance of probabilities that it is true.

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06-17-2014, 12:35 PM
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Just as you ought to have the legal right to express yourself how you choose; individuals, society, and institutions also ought to have the right to discourage, shun, and even not tolerate such language/behavior in their professional/polite setting.

Freedom of speech does not equal the right to be heard.

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06-17-2014, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
What do you think of the bystander approach and its increasing influence in criminological, sociological and feminist discourse to limit freedom of expression? Is the ever increasing pressure to limit "unacceptable" speech (whether it be anti-gay, objectifying women and racist comments) an infringement on the freedom of expression or do you see it as furthering disadvantaged groups? Should an individual be allowed to express the best and worst idea or should he/she be limited to only comments that will not insult someone else?
I'd say that this has everything to do with public and private space, and that this "bystander" approach is nonsense. No one necessarily has the right to public space to treat it as their own private space. So therefore, no one is a "bystander" in public space because that sort of already assumes that there is somehow private space in public space. The only private space in public space is the immediate space that one is standing in and is sort of technically within arm's reach. So if you can speak in public, inside your own little private space, and not be heard by anyone outside your own little personal space then I suppose you should be able to say whatever the **** you want to inside that little personal space. Once your voice can be heard beyond or outside of that little personal space around your body then what you say becomes subject to "public" acceptance as to whether the general public within earshot want to hear it or not. Same goes for playing music or partying really loud late at night. If the neighbors can hear it and they don't wish to because it effects them negatively in some way, then the noise becomes unacceptable.

In the public domain, the public should be able to avoid, if something is avoidable, whatever it doesn't want to have contact with. If certain people want to have contact with it then it could be meant for private conversations, private listening, the movie or TV program you choose to watch, either privately or as part of a group of similar minded people who want to talk about, read, or watch and listen to that sort of thing.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 06-17-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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06-17-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
To stay on topic, should you or I be freely able to express our sexual exploits of women without the constant fear of reprisal? Is articulating that a girl has nice **** and you would like to f uck her a legitimate form of expression that feminists need to shut up about?
as others have said about various free speech issues... you are free to say whatever you want, but you are not free from experiencing consequences as a result of people's reactions to what you say.

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06-17-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Only if she can prove on a balance of probabilities that it is true.
So if you have a small dick it's fair game for the ladies to mock you and it at the water cooler every day?

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06-17-2014, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Angry Penguin View Post
Would you find it acceptable for the women in your workplace to publicly mock your laughably small penis?
A viable solution would be to whip it out and cocksmack her.







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06-17-2014, 04:12 PM
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Free Kassian
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A viable solution would be to whip it out and cocksmack her.






Would she be able to feel a pine needle hitting her face?

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06-17-2014, 05:31 PM
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Finlandia WOAT
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People thinking you're an asshat if you objectify them isn't an infringement on their free speech. It is a protection of their expectation to be treated equally and professionally in a professional environment.

Besides...it's been like this for a long time. You've pretty much always had to change the guards on your speech depending on who you are around.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can say whatever the **** you want to people and they can't do anything about it.

Like..I have the freedom to shout "**** YOU!!!!!" into the ear of a sleeping Grizzly Bear. Sneak up real soft, correctly position my mouth next to its eardrum and screech those words louder than if the Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea.


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06-17-2014, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
as others have said about various free speech issues... you are free to say whatever you want, but you are not free from experiencing consequences as a result of people's reactions to what you say.
what is free if not free from consequences? because if what you say is freedom of speech, any country is free, you just get punished.

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06-17-2014, 05:49 PM
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It's probably been said, but anyone can say anything they want. Free speech protects you from legal consequences for speaking your mind. But it doesn't protect you from people calling you out on your stupid ideas.

Also, complimenting a girl's chest or making crude remarks isn't a feminist thing, it's funking common decency. It's really uncomfortable to have people perv on you, and a lot of people will take offence in that. If you want to say that to someone in a private context, someone you have intimate relations with for example, that might be okay depending on your relationship.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable discussing girls' body parts with friends (she has a nice ass, boobs, etc). It's objectifying, and a surprisingly low amount of people care what you think. I know who I find attractive, and i'm sure to let those people know in a respectable way.

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06-17-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Free Torts View Post
Would she be able to feel a pine needle hitting her face?
Test it out and let us know.

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06-17-2014, 05:57 PM
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Finlandia WOAT
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what is free if not free from consequences? because if what you say is freedom of speech, any country is free, you just get punished.
What freedom of speech in the US means is that the government can not arrest you for what you say.

Which, sadly, is not exactly true. The Sedition Act, which extended the Espionage Act, said that anything that may harm the United States is not permitted. Then someone was arrested for handing out pamphlets encouraging draftees to refuse the call to armed service. He appealed, and the case went to the Supreme Court, where he lost.

The Chief Justice at the time (Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.) compared that to shouting fire in a crowded theater; that is, anything that is dangerous to the public is obviously illegal and not protected under free speech.

This is one example...I'm sure there are others.

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