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Torres

View Poll Results: Should Torres be traded?
Yes 50 37.31%
No 60 44.78%
Undecided 24 17.91%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-26-2007, 08:16 PM
  #51
Deathamphetamine
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I would most certainly keep him. Sure he is having an off season but who isn't? Lupul is underachieveing, Hemsky is behind last year by about 8 goals, Horcoff had a horrible start to the season, etc. You will see a new Torres if they can sign a puckmoving defensman, or even 2

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Old
03-26-2007, 08:17 PM
  #52
RiversQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
And if we did trade him, I think Hartnell would be an excellent replacement, considering they're both comparable players, and Hartnell would only cost money to aquire.
Torres only costs money to acquire as well and likely considerably less thanks to a season that only appears to have been poor on the surface.

Hartnell will probably end up costing nearly twice as much as Torres, probably about $3MM/yr. So you have to ask this question: Is Scott Hartnell worth more than Raffi Torres plus $1MM - $1.5MM in budget space needed to fill other holes on the club?

There is no doubt in my mind.

Heck you could spin a trade in there: Is Scott Hartnell plus say Joni Pitkanen worth more than Raffi Torres + $1.5MM savings from Hartnell + $2.5MM savings on Pitkanen + additional resources required to get Pitkanen?

It still sounds bad to me.

Dumping Lupul for anything at all and then signing Hartnell as Lupul's replacement makes far more sense IMHO.

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Old
03-26-2007, 08:34 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Torres past 3 seasons
238 GP 61 goals 47 assists 108 points +13

Hartnell past 3 seasons
202 GP 65 goals 53 assists 118 points +21
I used the past four seasons to start with, but we can look at the past three too:

Torres' past 3 seasons:
238 GP 2.01ESP/hr

Hartnell's past 3 seasons:
202 GP 1.99 ESP/hr

That's pretty much the exact same number at even strength. Torres has achieved this rate while averaging an extra 160 ES min per season during this stretch as well. The only reason Hartnell has slightly better totals over the past three years is because he averages about 100 extra PP min per season (but he's not remotely good there - posting just 3.1 PPP/hr) and he's bagged a handful of SH points.

There's no way Hartnell as a pending UFA at a very young age is going to provide more bang for the buck over the next few years. I realize he's younger than Torres, but both players are improving, so that is not an advantage over the next 3-5 seasons. I like Hartnell as a player and I've never been much of a Torres fan, but if you think you're upgrading by making a move like this, then I think you're mistaken.

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Old
03-26-2007, 08:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by westcory View Post
When Torres got top line minutes when hemmer and Smyth were hurt, he went on a 12 game point streak, where was Lupul or Horcs 12 game streak this year?
Well, Lupul never had one. No secret there.

Horcoff went on a tear shortly after the halfway point when the Smyth/Horcoff/Hemsky was reunited - they were something like +10/-3 over about 10-12 games. One thing you have to realize about Horcoff is that he draws the toughest assignments on this team at all times. Even when Peca was here, Horcoff still took the tough assignments, particularly in the playoffs.

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Old
03-27-2007, 06:51 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiversQ View Post
I used the past four seasons to start with, but we can look at the past three too:

Torres' past 3 seasons:
238 GP 2.01ESP/hr

Hartnell's past 3 seasons:
202 GP 1.99 ESP/hr

That's pretty much the exact same number at even strength. Torres has achieved this rate while averaging an extra 160 ES min per season during this stretch as well. The only reason Hartnell has slightly better totals over the past three years is because he averages about 100 extra PP min per season (but he's not remotely good there - posting just 3.1 PPP/hr) and he's bagged a handful of SH points.

There's no way Hartnell as a pending UFA at a very young age is going to provide more bang for the buck over the next few years. I realize he's younger than Torres, but both players are improving, so that is not an advantage over the next 3-5 seasons. I like Hartnell as a player and I've never been much of a Torres fan, but if you think you're upgrading by making a move like this, then I think you're mistaken.
Im not advocating signing Hartnell really, I agree with you I'm not sure the money spent on him would be wise, but I still wonder about all these statistics. In the end, Hartnell is scoring more than Torres is, who cares if its on the PP, or SH, or ES. What matters is that Hartnell scores more for his team than Torres does.

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Old
03-27-2007, 07:02 AM
  #56
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I wouldn't mind having both Hartnell + Torres. If we get some good puck moving defense, IMO, Torres' numbers will rise again even if he is inconsistent.

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Old
03-27-2007, 10:23 AM
  #57
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Oooo boy, Torres is in the doghouse now. Hemsky is coming back in, and Stortini might get the call over Torres.

Have fun in the press box Tico.

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Old
03-27-2007, 12:35 PM
  #58
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There's no reason to trade him yet. He's been a productive goal scorer in the past and he's still improving each year. His physical game is intimidating (when he uses it) and extremely valuable in a 7 game series.

Further to that, we can sign him cheaply this summer allowing Lowe to upgrade at other positions.

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Old
03-27-2007, 01:16 PM
  #59
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For some reason I wasn't able to vote on the poll. So here's my two bites.

We should not trade Torres. This only his second (I think if not third) season in the NHL. He is a young player with a lot of potential. It's to early to give up on Torres. If in four or five years he is still inconsistent or not improving then we can talk trading Torres.

The other thing is he is a player I would hate to face if he were to be traded. He is going to have an impact in this league, He won't be a superstar, but he will have high impact.

Frankly, I like Torres. When he is having a good night he is fun to watch. I would hate to see him go.

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Old
03-27-2007, 01:27 PM
  #60
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My read on Torres is that he's a decent kid that's taken longer to grow up than he should. I'm hoping that this season the light bulb's finally illuminated above his head, and he's come to realize that his career is spinning its wheels...and whatever off ice regimen he currently uses simply is not cutting it.

If I'm Lowe, I sign him to a 2 to 3 year deal at no more than 2M/yr and give him this summer to figure things out and see what kind of Torres we get in September, but let him know that his leash isn't nearly as long as it used to be.

If he rededicates himself to his craft, great. If it's the same old Raffi, then it's time to turn him into other assets before his value depreciates any more.

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Old
03-27-2007, 01:36 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredoiler View Post
For some reason I wasn't able to vote on the poll. So here's my two bites.

We should not trade Torres. This only his second (I think if not third) season in the NHL. He is a young player with a lot of potential. It's to early to give up on Torres. If in four or five years he is still inconsistent or not improving then we can talk trading Torres.

The other thing is he is a player I would hate to face if he were to be traded. He is going to have an impact in this league, He won't be a superstar, but he will have high impact.

Frankly, I like Torres. When he is having a good night he is fun to watch. I would hate to see him go.
It's his 3rd year as an NHL regular, with his first 2 pro seasons before then being an AHL/NHL tweener. He also had a full year in the minors during the lockout where he looked like a man among boys at first, but once it became obvious the lockout wasn't going to be resolved anytime soon he showed a total lack of interest in his surroundings and his stats reflected it..

He'll be 26 when the regular season rolls around next year, perilously close to fish/cut bait time when it comes to power forwards. Do you really want to spend another 4 to 5 years hoping he becomes more than what he is now?

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