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Rick Nash Part II

View Poll Results: Do you want to get rid of Rick Nash?
Yes 153 65.95%
No 79 34.05%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-18-2014, 01:48 PM
  #851
BlueshirtBlitz
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Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
This Rick Nash issue in undebatable!

Those against Rick Nash are angry that he didn't live up to his hype

Those in favor of Rick Nash defend him for average play due to his hype

There's nothing to do about this now. There wasn't a cup.

Let's see what the general consensus is on Rick Nash when the BlueJackets leap frog us next year.
You're wrong.

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06-18-2014, 02:20 PM
  #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
This Rick Nash issue in undebatable!

Those against Rick Nash are angry that he didn't live up to his hype

Those in favor of Rick Nash defend him for average play due to his hype

There's nothing to do about this now. There wasn't a cup.

Let's see what the general consensus is on Rick Nash when the BlueJackets leap frog us next year.
I disagree, the debate could be is Rick Nash didn't have help or if he's just starting to get a feel of play-off games. Can he shoulder the load or is a he a better complimentary player? Is there a center we can go after that could really unlock Nash as a player? Could even start to argue that he's over the hill, this situation is not as cut and dry as you think.

I think the buyout could be a great opportunity if we spend the money very shrewdly or we even make some trades with the space created.

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06-18-2014, 02:26 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
This Rick Nash issue in undebatable!

Those against Rick Nash are angry that he didn't live up to his hype

Those in favor of Rick Nash defend him for average play due to his hype

There's nothing to do about this now. There wasn't a cup.

Let's see what the general consensus is on Rick Nash when the BlueJackets leap frog us next year.
Assuming they don't **** up the off-season, Rangers will be favorites to win the East with Boston.

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06-18-2014, 02:50 PM
  #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
This Rick Nash issue in undebatable!

Those against Rick Nash are angry that he didn't live up to his hype

Those in favor of Rick Nash defend him for average play due to his hype

There's nothing to do about this now. There wasn't a cup.

Let's see what the general consensus is on Rick Nash when the BlueJackets leap frog us next year.
REG-GIE! REG-GIE! REG-GIE!

None of what you said is accurate, friend.

Those against Rick Nash are angry that he didn't score 100 goals and win a Conn Smythe (cue the "how about 4 goals?" response).

Those in favor of Rick Nash defend him because they know there's more to hockey than goal scoring, and recognize how different the playoffs are, and how young Nash is in terms of experiencing those games, as well as the fact that he recently had 2 concussions and changed his game because of it.

The Blue Jackets may leap frog us next year, although I doubt that happens. If they do, it won't be because Rick Nash is a Ranger. That's absurd, and you're better than that.

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06-18-2014, 05:24 PM
  #855
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I've wasted too much time on this team. It's been 20+ years of hardcore watching. I'm still going to watch, but situations such as the Rick Nash situation, are now are just a time sink.

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06-18-2014, 08:35 PM
  #856
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Somebody talk Reggie off the ledge. Its only Rick Nash we are talking about.

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06-18-2014, 09:37 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
REG-GIE! REG-GIE! REG-GIE!

None of what you said is accurate, friend.

Those against Rick Nash are angry that he didn't score 100 goals and win a Conn Smythe (cue the "how about 4 goals?" response).

Those in favor of Rick Nash defend him because they know there's more to hockey than goal scoring, and recognize how different the playoffs are, and how young Nash is in terms of experiencing those games, as well as the fact that he recently had 2 concussions and changed his game because of it.

The Blue Jackets may leap frog us next year, although I doubt that happens. If they do, it won't be because Rick Nash is a Ranger. That's absurd, and you're better than that.
I'm not angry at him for just not scoring, I don't like his game. He is soft, overpaid and streaky. Rick Nash was brought in to score and score a lot, not for his back checking or his friggin intangibles. Big goals, big plays at big times. None of that happened in 4 rounds of playoff hockey, even longer if you count last post season. I see zero reason to believe he will ever be a dominating offensive player for us.


Last edited by Radek27: 06-18-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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06-18-2014, 09:43 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Marleau isn't as good as Nash.
Really? Because he outproduced him by a large margin in the regular season and post season.

Marleau had 7 points in 7 games this post season, Nash had 10 in 25.

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06-18-2014, 10:03 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm not angry at him for not scoring, I just don't like his game. He is soft, overpaid and streaky. Rick Nash was brought in to score and score a lot, not for his back checking or his friggin intangibles. Big goals, big plays at big times. None of that happened in 4 rounds of playoff hockey, even longer if you count last post season. I see zero reason to believe he will ever be a dominating offensive player for us.
But you've only seen him play in 2 postseason runs. Those are pretty much his only playoff experiences after 8 years of playing for a **** team. I don't think you can just write him off as someone who will never figure it out. He's a pretty damn good hockey player. All goal scorers are streaky. I wouldn't say he's soft, either. He was using the body in the playoffs quite often. He shied away from contact due to the concussions most likely during most of the season. No one mentions the damn concussions at all. Look, I'm disappointed in Nash's goal scoring issues in the playoffs as much as anyone. You guys make me feel like a Nash-lover. I'm not enamored with him or anything. I just think the NY fanbase in general has absolutely zero patience for adversity. Take a look at an in game thread. When a goal is scored, there's 2 pages of people ranting about how stupid a player is or how bad they are. Patience, my friend, patience. A full year healthy for Nash will do wonders and if he struggles in the playoffs again...I may be on your side of the fence.

Stepan struggled mightily in the playoffs and he had a pretty damn good playoffs this year. He can figure it out is my point.

Him being overpaid has nothing to do with his game, by the way, although I do think he's about a million over his value.

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06-18-2014, 11:46 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
But you've only seen him play in 2 postseason runs. Those are pretty much his only playoff experiences after 8 years of playing for a **** team. I don't think you can just write him off as someone who will never figure it out. He's a pretty damn good hockey player. All goal scorers are streaky. I wouldn't say he's soft, either. He was using the body in the playoffs quite often. He shied away from contact due to the concussions most likely during most of the season. No one mentions the damn concussions at all. Look, I'm disappointed in Nash's goal scoring issues in the playoffs as much as anyone. You guys make me feel like a Nash-lover. I'm not enamored with him or anything. I just think the NY fanbase in general has absolutely zero patience for adversity. Take a look at an in game thread. When a goal is scored, there's 2 pages of people ranting about how stupid a player is or how bad they are. Patience, my friend, patience. A full year healthy for Nash will do wonders and if he struggles in the playoffs again...I may be on your side of the fence.

Stepan struggled mightily in the playoffs and he had a pretty damn good playoffs this year. He can figure it out is my point.

Him being overpaid has nothing to do with his game, by the way, although I do think he's about a million over his value.
I am not ready to lose a key piece in order to keep Rick Nash. If we can trade him for a collection of draft picks (which we don't have many) and get that cap space I feel we can keep the team together and add another good two pieces either via trade or FA.

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06-19-2014, 12:38 AM
  #861
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Why the hell would we buyout Nash? Anyone who suggests that, please give me an explanation.

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06-19-2014, 12:47 AM
  #862
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Why the hell would we buyout Nash? Anyone who suggests that, please give me an explanation.
Because every time he looks into the camera I feel as if he's taking a part of my soul.

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06-19-2014, 01:43 AM
  #863
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Obviously, I'm a Nash supporter. He once again led the team in G. Last time he didn't lead his team in G was his rookie year in Columbus.

My concern comes from watching clips of his first year here (where he was just under a PPG): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsX0PKf-RXs

Why don't we see that drive to the net, or even burst of speed anymore? If it's the head shots, then I feel bad for the man, the player, and the team. Maybe it'll be like Gabby 2 years ago and we'll find out he's been hampered by something. I'm really hoping he comes into training camp in great shape and ready to play like he did in 2013.

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06-19-2014, 03:14 AM
  #864
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You didn't? The board is replete with biased and unjustified Nash hate. I'm actually surprised 55 people voted no.
count me in the minority. what I've learned, is most of this fan base is quick to turn their back on a player at any given time. hell, remember when messier came to NY? they finished 1st in the division, but lost to the penguins who eventually won the cup THEN...

everyone knows what happens next. his issue with nielson rears its ugly head as the team crapped the bed out of the gate (nielson is eventually fired) they finished last in the division and this same fan base BOOED mark messier late in the season. ok, i get it, when you come to NY you have to perform. bla bla bla.....

sure enough, he helps bring a cup to NY shortly after. most of the people on these boards are those who most likely participated in this booing. also, most of the people here are armchair gm's. guaranteed if the rangers somehow magically won a cup in a year or two and nasher played his part as he should, 3/4 of these people who say "TRADE NASH I FORGOT HE HAS A NTC" "TRADE NASH IM A HOCKEY ANALYST" "ALL 23 PLAYERS ON THE RANGERS NEED TO BE CALLAHAN AND DUBINSKY" will fall into the woodwork and do one of these

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06-19-2014, 03:32 AM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
Why the hell would we buyout Nash? Anyone who suggests that, please give me an explanation.
we can't buyout nash because we unfortunately have someone who deserves it more than him.

i will say it over and over again the type of game he brings is not even close to being worth the $7.8 mil cap hit. you don't pay that much for "solid backchecking."

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06-19-2014, 08:25 AM
  #866
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But you've only seen him play in 2 postseason runs. Those are pretty much his only playoff experiences after 8 years of playing for a **** team. I don't think you can just write him off as someone who will never figure it out. He's a pretty damn good hockey player. All goal scorers are streaky. I wouldn't say he's soft, either. He was using the body in the playoffs quite often. He shied away from contact due to the concussions most likely during most of the season. No one mentions the damn concussions at all. Look, I'm disappointed in Nash's goal scoring issues in the playoffs as much as anyone. You guys make me feel like a Nash-lover. I'm not enamored with him or anything. I just think the NY fanbase in general has absolutely zero patience for adversity. Take a look at an in game thread. When a goal is scored, there's 2 pages of people ranting about how stupid a player is or how bad they are. Patience, my friend, patience. A full year healthy for Nash will do wonders and if he struggles in the playoffs again...I may be on your side of the fence.

Stepan struggled mightily in the playoffs and he had a pretty damn good playoffs this year. He can figure it out is my point.

Him being overpaid has nothing to do with his game, by the way, although I do think he's about a million over his value.
I think the lack of patience comes with experience. The Rangers have had the same GM for some time now. He's done some good and some bad, with the bad obviously being accentuated among the fanbase. Well, forget about Sather for a moment, it's the Rangers in general. We have seen big ticket guys come in (through trades and as UFAs). They're traded for pieces that are typically homegrown, and it's that homegrown talent that everyone seems to really root for and hope does well. And then they get here and do not live up to their billing. Some not even close. Nash and Richards are examples, with Nash being a bigger example since he was a bigger ticket. The expectation was he could put the team over the top with his offensive talent...and that includes in the playoffs. That he had only four games experience is immaterial. If he plays hard and tough, he can score in the playoffs. Kovalev scored 9 goals in his first playoff season. Why can't Nash, a vet, do well in his second playoff series? Why can't he do well in his third playoff series? Two seasons in and he hasn't earned his paycheck and really didn't come in and do what was expected and there isn't an expectation next season will be different. He's not 24 years old. He's 31 and has been in the league for a while. So the fanbase has seen this and made up their minds. And those who are patient are fine to be patient. I am because I have no other choice and don't think he sucks and looking back on the "what could have beens" isn't typically my style; gotta move forward. But being patient is sometimes just being hopeful. AV was patient with Richards. He kept him in there and the funny thing is he didn't put him back quick enough (thought he was one of the better skaters in game 5 and Moore was a drag on the top line - should've moved up sooner). I'm with you on waiting, jersey, but will have a criticism here and there and do understand the impatience. If there are "garbage" comments, then that is something I really wouldn't understand.

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06-19-2014, 08:34 AM
  #867
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we can't buyout nash because we unfortunately have someone who deserves it more than him.

i will say it over and over again the type of game he brings is not even close to being worth the $7.8 mil cap hit. you don't pay that much for "solid backchecking."
Even if you could buy out Nash, why the hell would you? He has trade value still.

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06-19-2014, 08:39 AM
  #868
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Obviously, I'm a Nash supporter. He once again led the team in G. Last time he didn't lead his team in G was his rookie year in Columbus.

My concern comes from watching clips of his first year here (where he was just under a PPG): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsX0PKf-RXs

Why don't we see that drive to the net, or even burst of speed anymore? If it's the head shots, then I feel bad for the man, the player, and the team. Maybe it'll be like Gabby 2 years ago and we'll find out he's been hampered by something. I'm really hoping he comes into training camp in great shape and ready to play like he did in 2013.
I don't know if its the concussions, but it looked like he lost a lot of his balance

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06-19-2014, 08:52 AM
  #869
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we can't buyout nash because we unfortunately have someone who deserves it more than him.
Theres also that thing about how buying out Nash would be stupid.

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06-19-2014, 09:29 AM
  #870
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Theres also that thing about how buying out Nash would be stupid.
It would be unbelievably stupid and inefficient.

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06-19-2014, 10:27 AM
  #871
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Why the hell would we buyout Nash? Anyone who suggests that, please give me an explanation.
Post-concussion Nash does not seem to be worth a $7.8 million cap hit for four more years.

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06-19-2014, 10:48 AM
  #872
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I think the lack of patience comes with experience. The Rangers have had the same GM for some time now. He's done some good and some bad, with the bad obviously being accentuated among the fanbase. Well, forget about Sather for a moment, it's the Rangers in general. We have seen big ticket guys come in (through trades and as UFAs). They're traded for pieces that are typically homegrown, and it's that homegrown talent that everyone seems to really root for and hope does well. And then they get here and do not live up to their billing. Some not even close. Nash and Richards are examples, with Nash being a bigger example since he was a bigger ticket. The expectation was he could put the team over the top with his offensive talent...and that includes in the playoffs. That he had only four games experience is immaterial. If he plays hard and tough, he can score in the playoffs. Kovalev scored 9 goals in his first playoff season. Why can't Nash, a vet, do well in his second playoff series? Why can't he do well in his third playoff series? Two seasons in and he hasn't earned his paycheck and really didn't come in and do what was expected and there isn't an expectation next season will be different. He's not 24 years old. He's 31 and has been in the league for a while. So the fanbase has seen this and made up their minds. And those who are patient are fine to be patient. I am because I have no other choice and don't think he sucks and looking back on the "what could have beens" isn't typically my style; gotta move forward. But being patient is sometimes just being hopeful. AV was patient with Richards. He kept him in there and the funny thing is he didn't put him back quick enough (thought he was one of the better skaters in game 5 and Moore was a drag on the top line - should've moved up sooner). I'm with you on waiting, jersey, but will have a criticism here and there and do understand the impatience. If there are "garbage" comments, then that is something I really wouldn't understand.
Fletch, I hear you. I'm a Met fan and I get like that sometimes (like with the Granderson signing). And yes, the Rangers have made tons of mistakes in the past. Part of what makes NY so great is the pressure and demand for excellence that the fans impart. However, that is also the downfall of many teams. The Mets are talking about trading for a big time OF. Why???? They are in last place, have a payroll below $90M. They should be trading off assets and acquiring prospects. Because NY demands they turn it around ASAP, and management feels pressure. It's not an excuse, it's a reality.

With the Rangers, I've seen some bonehead moves over the years. But I disagree on the bolded. Nash just turned 30 a few days ago, he's not 31. But besides that, he has been in the league for awhile but when you play 8-9 years in Columbus and suck, you develop some bad habits, and without playoff experience for that long, it is probably a huge adjustment for him. Who's to say that he doesn't figure it out next year? Then what, all these people who want to trade Nash will laud him as such an integral, elite player. Honestly, I feel like you do. I'm disappointed in Nash's goal output but I'm going to be patient because I saw the effort. With a strong offseason, a full regular season healthy (hopefully), who knows what can happen.

Some players have it click for them immediately in the playoffs - others don't. Whether he's 30, 24, or 35, his playoff career is younger than Derek Stepan's, who's 23. That makes it worse. If he had 40-50 playoff games under his belt before he came here, you don't think that makes a difference? I hope he can figure it out and make it work, because if he doesn't in the next year or two, we're not going to win the Cup.

Also, this isn't Richards. Richards has lost all his skating ability - he went from a 90 point center to a 50 point center in the span of a year - he is subject to cap recapture - his mouth is bigger than his game at this point. Nash led the team in goals despite playing in only 65 games and has averaged 35 goals over 82 as a Ranger. His playoff goal totals leave much to be desired...but trading him because "he's not worth the cap hit" or buying him out or whatever is dumb. If Nash gets traded - it will be because it is mutual between him and the Rangers - and he will pick his destination - and he will find success elsewhere - and then fans will say "you know, he was pretty good for us" like they do now with Gaborik, when 90% of Rangers fans hated Gaborik's game when he was a Ranger. I'm gonna let people be impatient and irrational though, and just stop talking about Rick Nash. He's part of the team whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not.

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06-19-2014, 11:02 AM
  #873
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I can't say that if the Rangers make the playoffs that Nash would be good or bad (goal and point wise). He can be great. If I were to bet on it, I'd say he would be mediocre. I don't disagree with a lot you said. You make good points and have approached this in a good manner. I look at him and say two years in the playoffs and by the last game he wasn't better than the first game. Good players seem to still be good players in the playoffs; unfortunately Nash is paid like a great player, and the expectations are high. I think his current style of play doesn't lend itself to a tight checking kind of playoff game. He just doesn't fight enough when he gets close and the shots he gets off aren't the highest quality. Will that change? Again, you don't expect an 8 year vet to turn things around. I'm not saying he won't. Trust me, I hope the Rangers make it to the playoffs and he's the top point getter. I'm just not betting on it.

I'm patient. I don't think buying him out or trading him are worthwhile either. On the trade front, don't think anyone wants him at that price and on the buyout front I think he brings more to the team than would somebody at what his cap hit would be if he were to be bought out. I'm not crapping on him either. I do think he is what he is at this point and just hope he stays healthy next season and can put up a 30+ goal, 60+ point season and help the Rangers get back to the big game.

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06-19-2014, 11:12 AM
  #874
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I can't say that if the Rangers make the playoffs that Nash would be good or bad (goal and point wise). He can be great. If I were to bet on it, I'd say he would be mediocre. I don't disagree with a lot you said. You make good points and have approached this in a good manner. I look at him and say two years in the playoffs and by the last game he wasn't better than the first game. Good players seem to still be good players in the playoffs; unfortunately Nash is paid like a great player, and the expectations are high. I think his current style of play doesn't lend itself to a tight checking kind of playoff game. He just doesn't fight enough when he gets close and the shots he gets off aren't the highest quality. Will that change? Again, you don't expect an 8 year vet to turn things around. I'm not saying he won't. Trust me, I hope the Rangers make it to the playoffs and he's the top point getter. I'm just not betting on it.

I'm patient. I don't think buying him out or trading him are worthwhile either. On the trade front, don't think anyone wants him at that price and on the buyout front I think he brings more to the team than would somebody at what his cap hit would be if he were to be bought out. I'm not crapping on him either. I do think he is what he is at this point and just hope he stays healthy next season and can put up a 30+ goal, 60+ point season and help the Rangers get back to the big game.
I think the bolded is the crux of this entire Nash debate. Its up to him. Will he work this offseason at being better along the boards and in tight spots? Will be make the commitment of getting in front of the net every once in a while?

Or will he be content with scoring his 30-35 regular season goals when theres worse teams and more time and space to feast on?

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06-19-2014, 12:20 PM
  #875
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Post-concussion Nash does not seem to be worth a $7.8 million cap hit for four more years.
So a 2.5 million per season in cap buyout (I think) for 6 years would be a better idea than eating that 2.5 and trading Nash at 5.3 a year for 4 years?

And to the "7.8 a year isn't worth back checking" comment before, he's led the ****ing team in goals the entire time he's been here.

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