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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III

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Old
06-22-2014, 08:45 PM
  #51
Lundsanity30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
i like what you said here..

brass is a top 6 center.. and FYI for you guys... richards played avg 18+ mins a night while brass was 14-15mins... more mins this coming year will be more impact full for him, pt totals, and really show his worth.. i rather sign from/promote from within then keep $$$$$$ big money.. let Miller take 3c and let it ride..
It's been said that BRassard was also sheltered against better competition.. as the 2C he will no longer be, he's going to have to up his game and I'm not confident he can do it based on his entire career so far.

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06-22-2014, 08:52 PM
  #52
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Doughty is a significantly better player. lol he was arguably Canada's best defenseman the Olympics in 2010 as a 20 year old.
I don't care what Doughty did four years ago. I care about what both are currently doing. McDonagh outscored Doughty in the regular season and had one less point in the playoffs, despite trying to get back into game shape after his injury, and Doughty playing behind the top scoring forward group in the playoffs. Doughty had 3 extra PP points. McDonagh scored 2 SH points in the playoffs.

In the regular season McDonagh had 3 SH goals, 4 SH points. 4 GWG.

Doughty had 1 SH assist and 2 GWG.

McDonagh was arguably USA's best skater in the 2014 Olympics, USA failing to win a gold medal isn't on McDonagh.

McDonagh defensively is on another level. Doughty is slick with the puck, but McDonagh still finds a way to produce the same.

The corsi charts show McDonagh faces tougher competition and starts more of his shifts in the defensive zone.

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06-22-2014, 08:54 PM
  #53
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So next year we finally get to see Mcdonagh QB the PP without having to worry about Richards on it.. can't wait to see what he produces next year.

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06-22-2014, 08:56 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
So next year we finally get to see Mcdonagh QB the PP without having to worry about Richards on it.. can't wait to see what he produces next year.
Automatic upgrade

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06-22-2014, 08:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
It's been said that BRassard was also sheltered against better competition.. as the 2C he will no longer be, he's going to have to up his game and I'm not confident he can do it based on his entire career so far.
Brassard was def. sheltered, but that also had to do with Zuke being 5'5" and Pouliot being super prone to penalties - you shouldn't really want to start that line in your own zone.

He could certainly be a fine 2nd line center, and probably earn his contract, but by the time he does the rest of the team might not be at that level. I think he's a huge dog to outperform a 4/19 or 5/22 deal.

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06-22-2014, 08:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
So next year we finally get to see Mcdonagh QB the PP without having to worry about Richards on it.. can't wait to see what he produces next year.
He will get the puck through the neutral zone a lot quicker, that's for sure. I loved Richie, but he was very slow moving the puck up ice and it made it difficult for the Rangers to gain entry more consistently.

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06-22-2014, 08:59 PM
  #57
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Cat, that's a super cool story, but you're probably alone in the McDonagh > Doughty camp.

If you want to believe it, go nuts.

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06-22-2014, 09:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Brassard was def. sheltered, but that also had to do with Zuke being 5'5" and Pouliot being super prone to penalties - you shouldn't really want to start that line in your own zone.

He could certainly be a fine 2nd line center, and probably earn his contract, but by the time he does the rest of the team might not be at that level. I think he's a huge dog to outperform a 4/19 or 5/22 deal.
If all three players return, you don't split them up.

Whoever the center is that replaces Richards should be between Hagelin and St. Louis.

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06-22-2014, 09:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Brassard was def. sheltered, but that also had to do with Zuke being 5'5" and Pouliot being super prone to penalties - you shouldn't really want to start that line in your own zone.

He could certainly be a fine 2nd line center, and probably earn his contract, but by the time he does the rest of the team might not be at that level. I think he's a huge dog to outperform a 4/19 or 5/22 deal.
THat's not going to change if they're all back....

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06-22-2014, 09:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Cat, that's a super cool story, but you're probably alone in the McDonagh > Doughty camp.

If you want to believe it, go nuts.
I see you're methodology in your posts, mostly attacking others and filled with "witty" half liners. But i'm not going to get baited into some immature chest puffing contest. So, you are barking up the wrong tree.

I supplied the facts.

And fair warning, I'm not at all interested in your response if you can't bring anything intellectual to the conversation. I'm not here to bicker.

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06-22-2014, 09:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Cat, that's a super cool story, but you're probably alone in the McDonagh > Doughty camp.

If you want to believe it, go nuts.
McDonagh is nearly as good as Doughty. There really isn't much disparity between the two players, if any at all, other than what the teams they've played on have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
It's been said that BRassard was also sheltered against better competition.. as the 2C he will no longer be, he's going to have to up his game and I'm not confident he can do it based on his entire career so far.
Brassard being sheltered is a myth. What does that even mean? That he started most of his shifts in the offensive zone? And what, he's not going to anymore? Of course he is. That he played against third pairing defenseman? Yeah, he did. But he also played against 1st and 2nd pairing defenseman. There's 4 lines and 3 D pairings. They change on the fly. It's not as simple as 1st D pairing plays against 1st line, second against second line, etc. He'll be fine. If he scores 45-50 points, he's fine. But I personally think he can do more. We'll see I guess. $4M is about his value and that's reasonable enough.

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06-22-2014, 09:09 PM
  #62
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Hagelin shouldn't be a top 6 forward.

I don't really understand the screaming desire to return a line for ~13M comprised of a 5'5 RW, a center with concussion problems who never hit 50 points or 20 goals, and a penalty prone LW with a history of effort problems who never hit 20 goals or 40 points.

They're all okay, zuke better okay, but it's an average second line in the league.

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06-22-2014, 09:12 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
So next year we finally get to see Mcdonagh QB the PP without having to worry about Richards on it.. can't wait to see what he produces next year.
Agreed. I think this year he will take full control of it, with no Richards to defer to.

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06-22-2014, 09:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Hagelin shouldn't be a top 6 forward.

I don't really understand the screaming desire to return a line for ~13M comprised of a 5'5 RW, a center with concussion problems who never hit 50 points or 20 goals, and a penalty prone LW with a history of effort problems who never hit 20 goals or 40 points.

They're all okay, zuke better okay, but it's an average second line in the league.
Brassard has concussion problems? This is news to me.

59 points is average second line production? That's borderline 1st line production.

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06-22-2014, 09:13 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ElectrocutedCat View Post
I see you're methodology in your posts, mostly attacking others and filled with "witty" half liners. But i'm not going to get baited into some immature chest puffing contest. So, you are barking up the wrong tree.

I supplied the facts.

And fair warning, I'm not at all interested in your response if you can't bring anything intellectual to the conversation. I'm not here to bicker.
I think you're wrong. Most of your stats are meaningless for sample size reasons or because of how you're framing them. McDonagh had 4 GWGs this year, Doughty had 2. Does that mean Doughty wanted to win games half as much? What is that supposed to mean?

I think I come from a place with more caustic people, it's not my intention to make someone mad, it's just how I talk. We can agree to disagree, it's fine.

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06-22-2014, 09:17 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
They're all okay, zuke better okay, but it's an average second line in the league.
Calling them an average 2nd line is a little silly. They were one of the best 2nd lines in the league last year.

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06-22-2014, 09:17 PM
  #67
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I give Doughty the slight edge over McD at this moment, but he isn't that MUCH better than McD like a lot of people would have you believe.

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06-22-2014, 09:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Brassard has concussion problems? This is news to me.

59 points is average second line production? That's borderline 1st line production.
Yes, had them in Columbus, hasn't really been the player since he was drafted to be. I've gone over what I think it impacts (physically mostly hands, style wise he avoids contact and such).

The line of Pouliot-Brassard-Zuke as a whole is an average 2nd line ITL, imo. It was only the "third" line because Richards made $7M - remove the center and if you have wings with Hagelin and Callahan, it's not going to be a traditional scoring line.

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06-22-2014, 09:20 PM
  #69
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Calling them an average 2nd line is a little silly. They were one of the best 2nd lines in the league last year.
I think Zucarello ran hot, Brassard is what he is, and Pouliot is the weak link (and this was his best year!). Even if you remove Pouliot, you're shoehorned into his playertype because of the other two one is soft and the other is a hobbit.

I don't think any of this is all that controversial, this is kinda weird to me. I like the line, fwiw.

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06-22-2014, 09:23 PM
  #70
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Have to wonder if what Brooks reported is only speculation.

There are going to be some changes if they can't resolve the Staal/Stralman/Boyle situations.

They certaintly won't lose both Staal and Stralman. So, if Stralman is let go, you have to figure they made headway in contract negotiations with Staal. I can't imagine they'll allow another Callahan situation so soon after what happened.

There is no doubt the organization is high on Miller. But if that is the course of action regarding the center position, they have to get Staal, Stralman, and Boyle signed.

Boyle is extremely valuable to this team's success both on the defensive side of the puck and forecheck. Other than Dominic Moore, Boyle would be the only real reliable faceoff man on the roster. Losing defensive draws means getting pinned in their own end, which negates our strengths (speed and puck possession).

Miller one day may be very good on draws in the NHL, but is that a gamble they should be willing to take right now? Miller is very young. In 5 years when this core is aging out, he will be approaching his prime years. So not handing him that responsibility now won't be an indictment on his career.

If they want to finish at the top of the division, and more importantly go deep in the playoffs, they should be looking to upgrade in the middle.

They need to get a little creative. Find a way to keep most of the core together but improve at the same time.

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06-22-2014, 09:25 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Yes, had them in Columbus, hasn't really been the player since he was drafted to be. I've gone over what I think it impacts (physically mostly hands, style wise he avoids contact and such).

The line of Pouliot-Brassard-Zuke as a whole is an average 2nd line ITL, imo. It was only the "third" line because Richards made $7M - remove the center and if you have wings with Hagelin and Callahan, it's not going to be a traditional scoring line.
If you look around the league, that line is one of the better second lines. Not the individual components of the line, but the way it plays together. You broke down each player into their weaknesses. "A 5'5 winger, a center with concussion problems, a winger who takes dumb penalties." You can do the same thing in the other way and highlight their strengths and make them seem all-world. "A dimunitive pitbull with a scoring touch and big heart, a center with great vision who comes up big in big games, and winger who's not afraid to throw his body around and get in front of the net."

You are ******** on the players who were a big reason we reached the SCF, you realize that? Not that they're immune from criticism, but we shouldn't be trying to break that line up. That line is a huge positive for our club.

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06-22-2014, 09:26 PM
  #72
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Have to wonder if what Brooks reported is only speculation.

There are going to be some changes if they can't resolve the Staal/Stralman/Boyle situations.

They certaintly won't lose both Staal and Stralman. So, if Stralman is let go, you have to figure they made headway in contract negotiations with Staal. I can't imagine they'll allow another Callahan situation so soon after what happened.

There is no doubt the organization is high on Miller. But if that is the course of action regarding the center position, they have to get Staal, Stralman, and Boyle signed.

Boyle is extremely valuable to this team's success both on the defensive side of the puck and forecheck. Other than Dominic Moore, Boyle would be the only real reliable faceoff man on the roster. Losing defensive draws means getting pinned in their own end, which negates our strengths (speed and puck possession).

Miller one day may be very good on draws in the NHL, but is that a gamble they should be willing to take right now? Miller is very young. In 5 years when this core is aging out, he will be approaching his prime years. So not handing him that responsibility now won't be an indictment on his career.

If they want to finish at the top of the division, and more importantly go deep in the playoffs, they should be looking to upgrade in the middle.

They need to get a little creative. Find a way to keep most of the core together but improve at the same time.
I think the only way Boyle does come back is if indeed they decide that JT Miller will replace Richards instead of signing a Statsny, or trading for a ROR.

I honestly would not mind that approach, but I do wonder how the Poo-Brass-Zucc line will do against heavier competition, which likely will occur if this scenario comes to fruition.

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06-22-2014, 09:27 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Yes, had them in Columbus, hasn't really been the player since he was drafted to be. I've gone over what I think it impacts (physically mostly hands, style wise he avoids contact and such).

The line of Pouliot-Brassard-Zuke as a whole is an average 2nd line ITL, imo. It was only the "third" line because Richards made $7M - remove the center and if you have wings with Hagelin and Callahan, it's not going to be a traditional scoring line.
Brassard never had a concussion in Columbus. If you're thinking of injury issues, you're probably thinking of the shoulder injury that basically ruined any possibility of him being a first liner.

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06-22-2014, 09:31 PM
  #74
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I don't expect Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello to continue into next season. I do expect Brassard and Zuccarello to stay together though. AV loves duos.

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06-22-2014, 09:33 PM
  #75
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A big shakeup deal I'd like to see would be Staal and Zuccarello to Anaheim for Vatanen and 2 of Smith-Pelly, Etem, Palmieri, Bonino, or Silfverberg.

IDK if its exact even value, but Getzlaf and Perry aren't getting younger and they could use a bookend for Fowler and Lindholm. Selanne retired so they'll have a RW hole and iirc Beauchemin faded last year and who wants to lean on Bryan Allen?

They have a huge amount of capspace too so absorbing the hit wouldn't be all that hard.
this would be an interesting deal.

Etem, Smith-Pelly, and Vatenen for Staal and Zucc...get younger, better on the wings, etc.

I'm assuming this is with Pouliot not being brought back?

And lets say they sign Grabovski to be your 2nd line center.

You could go with this going into next season.



CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.250m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Devante Smith-Pelly ($0.725m) / Derick Brassard ($4.250m) / Emerson Etem ($0.870m)
Jesper Fast ($0.805m) / Dominic Moore ($1.350m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m)
Ryan Bourque ($0.900m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Sami Vatanen ($0.851m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.200m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.350m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,740,000; BONUSES: $445,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,760,000



Personally, its a young, very inexperienced bottom 9...but it could be FAST as all hell, and extremely young, hungry, and talented.

This would be an exciting team, not necessarily as good, but with ridiculous upside.

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