HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2014, 10:19 AM
  #203
AHB*
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Besides Doughty/McDonagh... on paper, we looked to have a much more dominant defensive corps than they did.

Their defense looked better. Their offense kept our defense pinned. And our offense couldn't do **** to their "worse" defense.
Their forwards are unbelievably strong defensively.

Also, Dan Girardi just died in the finals. If he isn't a nightmare, that series is completely different. Not to blame it on one player, but I've never seen a guy turn it over as much as he did.

AHB* is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:20 AM
  #204
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 13,657
vCash: 500
I think we'll see at least 2 young players make the team next year (Miller, Fast), in some way.. could be even more depending on trades (Allen, Lindbergh, Haggerty), etc.

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:20 AM
  #205
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 13,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
It's actually the most unappealing move that I'd be ok with.

Really, it will set a terrible precedent that our younger players due for contracts could entirely exploit.
not really... you have to be as good don't you?

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:21 AM
  #206
Mittelstadt Nemesis
...One
 
Mittelstadt Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 21,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Vigneault stressed the importance of a prospect stepping up. One of those guys is Ryan Haggerty, who from the looks of it, has a rip of a right handed shot.

From what i've read, he also chose to sign with the Rangers because they alluded to giving him a very good shot of making the team right off the bat next year.

Could he be a 4th line player, who uses his body to be a forechecker, and is given more minutes to play on the powerplay? Certainly could be.
And one of the times the PP was doing best in the playoffs was when they had John Moore out there and he indiscriminately fired the puck goalwards every time he got it.

This was in stark contrast to Stepan, who would receive the puck, stand stationary, and look to defer responsibility by passing it back to the point without even looking goalwards or making the defenders fear him.

Every, single, time.

__________________
Proud Eternalist since... ever.
Mittelstadt Nemesis is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:21 AM
  #207
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
all I'm missing is a spare forward, and I'm under the cap on cap geek and even the real cap which is expected to be 70M from what I hear. doesn't leave much room to do anything at the deadline however.
The doubt isn't so much that it can't be done as it is that it can't be done without making the roster significantly worse.

It's a matter of priorities. To me, the downgrade from Stralman (who I actually think is overrated here) or Staal to Allen or McIlrath is more significant than the downgrade from Richards to Miller or Lindberg when you take into account ice time issues.

Tawnos is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:23 AM
  #210
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
I mentioned it in the BRB post.

Granlund from Minn.
ROR from Colorado.
Mantha from Det.
Minnesota already has good defensive depth. They need offense even more than we do. I don't see them trading one of Coyle or Granlund. Both are cost controlled and the only centers they have behind Koivu.

ROR made 6.5 mil last year. For as much money as he's likely to get this summer, we'd be better off just signing Stastny as a UFA.

Mantha is completely unproven. I'd love to get him, but if you don't trust Miller to be our 3rd line center, then how can you possibly trust Mantha?

GAGLine is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:24 AM
  #211
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 13,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The doubt isn't so much that it can't be done as it is that it can't be done without making the roster significantly worse.

It's a matter of priorities. To me, the downgrade from Stralman (who I actually think is overrated here) or Staal to Allen or McIlrath is more significant than the downgrade from Richards to Miller or Lindberg when you take into account ice time issues.
I don't think the roster is THAT worse at all though.. especially since in my scenario we're also keeping Staal.. but losing Stralman and Boyle and Pouilot.. not a huge huge step back. I have more trust that Miller can replace what Pouilot did rather than what Richards (or Brassard whoever) did.

While we didn't have a great center core last year either, and Richards was not very good overall, he did put score 20 goals and 51 points.. , Stepan had 59 points. and Brassard had 45 points..

Now Richards is gone.. that leaves you with..

Stepan - 60 points
Brassard - 45 points (that's if he can even handle 2nd line center duties)
Miller
Moore.

We had three centers last season put up almost 50 points, with Miller or Lindbergh replacing Richards, that is NOT happening, and even more so, can Brassard do it against tougher competition?

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:24 AM
  #212
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Clearly trading Staal is contingent on retaining Stralman, IMO.

I don't think you can feasibly keep both, especially Staal, who will try and command 6 million for a 2nd pairing defender.
No it's not. If Stralman signs somewhere else, Staal doesn't automatically sign an extension. The Rangers will still be in the same situation with Staal, he will still be in the last year of a contract with MORE leverage.

Also, if the Rangers resign Stalman it doesn't mean Staal has to be traded this summer. It's not like we have room for only one of the two going into next season. Although, I will concede it makes things a little tight. It's doable though. I think no matter what the Rangers won't start seriously talking to Staal about an extension until August AFTER all other business is taken care of. Unless a team comes in with an unbelievable offer I doubt Staal is moved this summer. At the deadline, well, I can see that happening.

You can conceivably keep both going into next season. I don't think the Rangers are thinking as "long term" as you. I think Sather is taking each segment of the season as it comes. What I mean is I think right now Sather is gearing up for the regular season. I think once the trade deadline approaches Sather is concentrating on the deadline. I honestly believe that is how he conducts business, right or wrong.

Son of Steinbrenner is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:30 AM
  #214
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,371
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Indeed. The thing is it doesn't have to be Allan that replaces Staal. The Rangers MIGHT feel like John Moore is ready to take over top 4 minutes. I'm not saying that's the case OR that I agree with that line of thinking.
I don't love the idea of Moore in the top four. But I have a lot less of an issue with that than idea of Allen in the top four.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:30 AM
  #215
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
While we didn't have a great center core last year either, and Richards was not very good overall, he did put score 20 goals and 51 points.. , Stepan had 59 points. and Brassard had 45 points..

Now Richards is gone.. that leaves you with..

Stepan - 60 points
Brassard - 45 points (that's if he can even handle 2nd line center duties)
Miller
Moore.

We had three centers last season put up almost 50 points, with Miller or Lindbergh replacing Richards, that is NOT happening, and even more so, can Brassard do it against tougher competition?
Two problems I have with that logic. First of all, it discounts the added production we will hopefully be getting from St Louis. In a sense, I'm not sure we need to replace Richards' production. We've already done that. We need to replace Callahan's production. So that's about 45 points of production, given his pace with us last season. Second of all, bumping up Stepan's ice time by two minutes per game hopefully gives us 5-10 more points. Bumping up Brassard's hopefully gives us 5 more points. If Miller/Lindberg can put up 30-35, admittedly a big if, then we're basically where we were last season.

Tawnos is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:32 AM
  #216
AHB*
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Well... we've gotten rid of the chief culprit already. Another one is seemingly out the door in Poo.

Depends on the guys you bring in but that's certainly a mold of player that management can focus to bring in to improve overall team defense.
I think Poo will be a Ranger.

AHB* is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:32 AM
  #217
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 13,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Two problems I have with that logic. First of all, it discounts the added production we will hopefully be getting from St Louis. In a sense, I'm not sure we need to replace Richards' production. We've already done that. We need to replace Callahan's production. So that's about 45 points of production, given his pace with us last season. Second of all, bumping up Stepan's ice time by two minutes per game hopefully gives us 5-10 more points. Bumping up Brassard's hopefully gives us 5 more points. If Miller/Lindberg can put up 30-35, admittedly a big if, then we're basically where we were last season.
That's alot of ifs... something I'm not sure Sather/Gorton is comfortable with knowing that we just made the SCF.

I mean yeah we SHOULD get more production from MSL for a whole season, and Kreider another year etc, and hopefully Nash can actually start to score goals.. but the center position overall is even worse than last year.

Brassard has never put up 50 points.. so I'm just VERY skeptical he's going to do that (or better) playing as the 2nd center next year.

Look, I'm not saying to MAKE the center position "fit".. I'm saying if we can do it, and still keep the majority of the team in tact, you gotta do it. whether its during the season or at the deadline. (where the price will be higher IMO)

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:33 AM
  #218
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
I would hope that he learned his lesson a couple of months ago and it still resonates with him enough for him to deal with a problem like this in the summer rather than last minute.

I understand your leverage point, which only makes signing Stralman even more imperative.
Learned his lesson? Like when he traded his captain at the deadline and the team went to the final?

If anything, it'll embolden him to ride out the season with Staal. Not saying its right, but theres no lesson to be learned from Sather's standpoint.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:35 AM
  #220
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
That's alot of ifs... something I'm not sure Sather/Gorton is comfortable with knowing that we just made the SCF.

I mean yeah we SHOULD get more production from MSL for a whole season, and Kreider another year etc, and hopefully Nash can actually start to score goals.. but the center position overall is even worse than last year.

Brassard has never put up 50 points.. so I'm just VERY skeptical he's going to do that (or better) playing as the 2nd center next year.

Look, I'm not saying to MAKE the center position "fit".. I'm saying if we can do it, and still keep the majority of the team in tact, you gotta do it. whether its during the season or at the deadline. (where the price will be higher IMO)
Really, it's two ifs. We already know Stepan is capable of a better rate of production with higher ice time. I'd be extremely shocked if MSL doesn't put up 50 points next season. Brassard, by the way, did produce at a 50 point rate once in his career already. Obviously, when we're talking about point totals, we're talking about players playing a full 82 games.

Add in natural growth from Kreider, again hopefully, and we're likely in a better spot than we were last season, despite losing Richards. Our center question is a big one this year, but we've spent way too much time viewing it in a vacuum.

Tawnos is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:40 AM
  #221
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
I would hope that he learned his lesson a couple of months ago and it still resonates with him enough for him to deal with a problem like this in the summer rather than last minute.

I understand your leverage point, which only makes signing Stralman even more imperative.
I love Stralman but if he wants more than $4M to $4.5 a year I'd let him walk. The Rangers need to be smart about this, and I just have a funny feeling that as soon as Stralman signs his contract he's going to be grossly overpaid for what he does. Stralman has a had a great 3 years with the Rangers but the Rangers hedged losing Stralman by trading for Klein. If Stalman doesn't want to resign at Sather's number the Rangers should let him go. Even if it means taking a slight hit to start the season.

What I want to know is what is Stalman's peak? Obviously, nobody can answer that question but is Stralman going to get better? Is THIS how good he will be? If it is how long can he sustain it? Nobody can answer that.

Son of Steinbrenner is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:41 AM
  #222
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
What I want to know is what is Stalman's peak? Obviously, nobody can answer that question but is Stralman going to get better? Is THIS how good he will be? If it is how long can he sustain it? Nobody can answer that.
One question to pile on: is THIS just because it was a contract year?

Tawnos is offline  
Old
06-23-2014, 10:45 AM
  #225
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
He's improved every year he's been with the Rangers. Doesn't seem like there's much variation in his performance.
You contradicted yourself.

Tawnos is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.