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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III

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Old
06-23-2014, 12:08 PM
  #276
Rust Heisenberg
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Not even remotely comparable. Granlund is way better than Silfverberg.

It isn't happening.
And you could totally be right. My point was that "untouchable players" sometimes become available.

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06-23-2014, 12:11 PM
  #277
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As trade partners?
Yes.

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06-23-2014, 12:18 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
And you could totally be right. My point was that "untouchable players" sometimes become available.
Not only have you made that point repeatedly, but you also seem to endorse having the entire Rangers' offseason strategy revolve around that sort of unlikely scenario.

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06-23-2014, 12:23 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
One question to pile on: is THIS just because it was a contract year?
That's another good point. I don't know. I like Stralman and in an uncapped system I'd give him what he wants but the reality is we can't have everybody.

Defense is a position of strength on the Rangers going into next season EVEN without Stralman.

Let me put it this way. If the Rangers are struggling next season are we going to be saying it's because Stralman isn't on the team? I doubt it...

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06-23-2014, 12:24 PM
  #280
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heres my thoughts.

let's assume the cap NEXT year (2015-2016) is say 73M I'm not sure if thats too high, too low, but im guessing

The Rangers will have the following contracts for their D if you bring back Staal, Stralman, & Moore.

Giradi 5.5
McD 4.7
Staal 5.5ish
Klein 2.9
Stralman 4.5ish
Moore 1.5ish

so youre looking at 24.6 mil spent on just your defense, add in another 8.5M on your starting goalie and another 1.5mil on your backup goalie. thats 34.6M of the 71 mil just on your defense.

By comparison sake the Kings are probably around 16mil on their D.

thats a whole lot of money to tie into a defense...a whole lot of money.

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Old
06-23-2014, 12:26 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Flyers already used their compliance buyouts on Briere and Bryzgalov so they're stuck with Umberger.
The Flyers could always use a regular buyout if they wanted...

The Flyers clearly won the trade but Hartnell looked putrid in the playoff series against the Rangers. Will this improve Columbus? It should but it's not like Hartnell is still in his prime...

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06-23-2014, 12:27 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not only have you made that point repeatedly, but you also seem to endorse having the entire Rangers' offseason strategy revolve around that sort of unlikely scenario.
My offseason strategy is to retain the core guys and improve the depth positions?

Shouldn't that be the offseason strategy for every team in this position?

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06-23-2014, 12:28 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
heres my thoughts.

let's assume the cap NEXT year (2015-2016) is say 73M I'm not sure if thats too high, too low, but im guessing

The Rangers will have the following contracts for their D if you bring back Staal, Stralman, & Moore.

Giradi 5.5
McD 4.7
Staal 5.5ish
Klein 2.9
Stralman 4.5ish
Moore 1.5ish

so youre looking at 24.6 mil spent on just your defense, add in another 8.5M on your starting goalie and another 1.5mil on your backup goalie. thats 34.6M of the 71 mil just on your defense.

By comparison sake the Kings are probably around 16mil on their D.

thats a whole lot of money to tie into a defense...a whole lot of money.
Sort of a chicken or the egg type argument tho isn't it?

We need to play stingy D since our offense is middle of the road at best.

Can't upgrade the forwards because we have no $ or trade chips (draft like sheet and trade away our 1st relentlessly).

And the cycle continues.

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06-23-2014, 12:28 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
heres my thoughts.

let's assume the cap NEXT year (2015-2016) is say 73M I'm not sure if thats too high, too low, but im guessing

The Rangers will have the following contracts for their D if you bring back Staal, Stralman, & Moore.

Giradi 5.5
McD 4.7
Staal 5.5ish
Klein 2.9
Stralman 4.5ish
Moore 1.5ish

so youre looking at 24.6 mil spent on just your defense, add in another 8.5M on your starting goalie and another 1.5mil on your backup goalie. thats 34.6M of the 71 mil just on your defense.

By comparison sake the Kings are probably around 16mil on their D.

thats a whole lot of money to tie into a defense...a whole lot of money.
How about we look at just the top 4?

McD - 4.8
G - 5.5
Total - 10.3

Projected Extensions
Staal - 6
Stralman - 4
Total - 10

Our first two pairings are only 300k apart? Something is wrong in this scenario.

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06-23-2014, 12:29 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
heres my thoughts.

let's assume the cap NEXT year (2015-2016) is say 73M I'm not sure if thats too high, too low, but im guessing

The Rangers will have the following contracts for their D if you bring back Staal, Stralman, & Moore.

Giradi 5.5
McD 4.7
Staal 5.5ish
Klein 2.9
Stralman 4.5ish
Moore 1.5ish

so youre looking at 24.6 mil spent on just your defense, add in another 8.5M on your starting goalie and another 1.5mil on your backup goalie. thats 34.6M of the 71 mil just on your defense.

By comparison sake the Kings are probably around 16mil on their D.

thats a whole lot of money to tie into a defense...a whole lot of money.
it is a lot of money...that's what happens when your kids grow old and do welll. Is $2.9MM really a number you want to spend on your third defensive pairing?

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06-23-2014, 12:29 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
My offseason strategy is to retain the core guys and improve the depth positions?

Shouldn't that be the offseason strategy for every team in this position?
How does trading Staal for any center that becomes available congruent to this?

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Old
06-23-2014, 12:30 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Sort of a chicken or the egg type argument tho isn't it?

We need to play stingy D since our offense is middle of the road at best.

Can't upgrade the forwards because we have no $ or trade chips (draft like sheet and trade away our 1st relentlessly).

And the cycle continues.
Well now you have the opportunity to break the cycle by trading Staal for more offense... but ironically that notion just induces more of a "dig your heals into the ground" reaction.

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06-23-2014, 12:31 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How does trading Staal for any center that becomes available congruent to this?
When did I say "any center that becomes available"?

I said young and talented player primed to break out.

I've been on board with ROR, Kadri, and told you my two ideal options - Granlund and Mantha.

I said 4 guys that could eclipse even Stepan's offensive production.

Why must you twist what I say constantly?

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Old
06-23-2014, 12:32 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
it is a lot of money...that's what happens when your kids grow old and do welll. Is $2.9MM really a number you want to spend on your third defensive pairing?
It's far more acceptable than 6 on your 2nd...

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06-23-2014, 12:34 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
And you could totally be right. My point was that "untouchable players" sometimes become available.
as long as you are trading a comparable player to Bobby Ryan which on this Rangers team is?

Nash? the Cap hit changes everything there.

There are truly no untouchable players in sports today.

The price to pay for certain players will be greater than others.

So, while I agree with your general point, Granlund COULD be traded.

I think the more important point is that he will NOT be traded to the Rangers because we have no one available that they would want in return.

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Old
06-23-2014, 12:35 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
as long as you are trading a comparable player to Bobby Ryan which on this Rangers team is?

Nash? the Cap hit changes everything there.

There are truly no untouchable players in sports today.

The price to pay for certain players will be greater than others.

So, while I agree with your general point, Granlund COULD be traded.

I think the more important point is that he will NOT be traded to the Rangers because we have no one available that they would want in return.
Staal.

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06-23-2014, 12:37 PM
  #292
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Is Dylan Mcilrath close to making the team next year? I would have thought he would be fighting for Stralman's roster spot if he leaves.

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06-23-2014, 12:38 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
heres my thoughts.

let's assume the cap NEXT year (2015-2016) is say 73M I'm not sure if thats too high, too low, but im guessing

The Rangers will have the following contracts for their D if you bring back Staal, Stralman, & Moore.

Giradi 5.5
McD 4.7
Staal 5.5ish
Klein 2.9
Stralman 4.5ish
Moore 1.5ish

so youre looking at 24.6 mil spent on just your defense, add in another 8.5M on your starting goalie and another 1.5mil on your backup goalie. thats 34.6M of the 71 mil just on your defense.

By comparison sake the Kings are probably around 16mil on their D.

thats a whole lot of money to tie into a defense...a whole lot of money.
worse when you consider how unbalanced it is in terms of providing offence from the defensive position.

Defensively that's a good group. As a whole, that is a challenged group offensively.

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Old
06-23-2014, 12:38 PM
  #294
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i think, if the Rangers have the chance to get an impact forward...and i mean an IMPACT forward, they should move Staal and re-sign Stralman.

I want a forward that puts up big numbers, or if they can get a bunch of cost controlled younger assets with tremendous upside, like was mentioned earlier, i would do that.

The idea of trading Staal and Zucc (roughly 10 mil in cap space) for Smith-Pelly, Etem, and Vatanen (under 3 mil in cap space) is VERY appealing to me. Thats 7+ mil extra to play with. You can hold on to that cap space, you can use it to get Stralman back, you can offer a LITTLE more to Boyle to keep him, etc.

i posted this earlier in response to that trade being proposed...


Quote:
his would be an interesting deal.

Etem, Smith-Pelly, and Vatenen for Staal and Zucc...get younger, better on the wings, etc.

I'm assuming this is with Pouliot not being brought back?

And lets say they sign Grabovski to be your 2nd line center.

You could go with this going into next season.



CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.250m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Devante Smith-Pelly ($0.725m) / Derick Brassard ($4.250m) / Emerson Etem ($0.870m)
Jesper Fast ($0.805m) / Dominic Moore ($1.350m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m)
Ryan Bourque ($0.900m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Sami Vatanen ($0.851m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.200m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.350m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,740,000; BONUSES: $445,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,760,000



Personally, its a young, very inexperienced bottom 9...but it could be FAST as all hell, and extremely young, hungry, and talented.

This would be an exciting team, not necessarily as good, but with ridiculous upside.

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06-23-2014, 12:38 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
Is Dylan Mcilrath close to making the team next year? I would have thought he would be fighting for Stralman's roster spot if he leaves.
He has the opportunity, especially if Staal gets traded or Stralman signs elsewhere.

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06-23-2014, 12:41 PM
  #296
Rust Heisenberg
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Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
Is Dylan Mcilrath close to making the team next year? I would have thought he would be fighting for Stralman's roster spot if he leaves.
He is certainly getting closer.

I'd imagine that he'll become a part of the team at the deadline, when the Rangers realize that the need even more cap room to retain some guys and ship off Klein.

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06-23-2014, 12:44 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Well now you have the opportunity to break the cycle by trading Staal for more offense... but ironically that notion just induces more of a "dig your heals into the ground" reaction.
It's not necessarily ironic that some on this board don't want to dismantle a very good D by removing a core piece in Staal.

Some like myself would want to hear the proposed trade before agreeing or disagreeing with a move like that because like it or not, it would weaken us on the blueline. McIlrath not being ready has hurt this team in that regard.

I honestly feel Sather will go into the season with JT Miller as #3 C. He'll reevaluate halfway through the season and at the deadline and if he's not cutting it then, he might move Staal at that time.

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06-23-2014, 12:46 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
It's far more acceptable than 6 on your 2nd...
if you had two guys of Moore's capability, at Moore's price, that $1.4MM difference doesn't make what you spend on the top four look too bad, especially if you look at the defense as a hole, as opposed to analyzing the top four.

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06-23-2014, 12:48 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
Is Dylan Mcilrath close to making the team next year? I would have thought he would be fighting for Stralman's roster spot if he leaves.
He's progressing well, should be ready in 2018

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06-23-2014, 12:49 PM
  #300
Rust Heisenberg
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
It's not necessarily ironic that some on this board don't want to dismantle a very good D by removing a core piece in Staal.

Some like myself would want to hear the proposed trade before agreeing or disagreeing with a move like that because like it or not, it would weaken us on the blueline. McIlrath not being ready has hurt this team in that regard.

I honestly feel Sather will go into the season with JT Miller as #3 C. He'll reevaluate halfway through the season and at the deadline and if he's not cutting it then, he might move Staal at that time.
At the end of the day, Hank bailed out the team more often than the defense did, and the offense didn't come up when it was needed most.

It seems pretty evident to me what needs to be focused on.

There is certainly a case to be made, also, that Girardi and Staal were our two worst defenders in the LA series. Staal added that same performance the series before, against the Habs.

Considering that Staal's value is at its highest right now, that 6 million or even 5.5 million per is too high for a 2nd pairing defender and will probably be received that way by the management, and the opportunity presents itself to improve on offense by selling high on a player that will likely not be a part of this team's future in the event that Anton Stralman is resigned... well I would tend to lean that it is a better decision to part ways than not.

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