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Hunter or Spezza

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Old
02-14-2004, 08:41 PM
  #26
Seph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I disagree with you on one part. Spezza has proven more than Hunter at this point.

Spezza has 19 goals to Hunters 22
Spezza has 23 assists to Hunters 19

And Spezza is 3 years younger.
Their point totals are near identical, although most would argue that goals are more important than assists, especially when one is playing on a team with as talented goal scorers as the Senators.

Points aside, since there's all of one point difference, Hunter's game is far more complete. Has Spezza proven he can bring a consistent physical game? Has Spezza proven that not only is he not a liability in his own end, but that he is the sort of player you want on the ice in the last two minutes protecting a lead? And can he do it all while only taking 12PIM's? To my knowledge he hasn't, but I'll admit I probably don't watch him as much as you. But I can tell you that Hunter definitely has, and that's where that statement came from.

Age means nothing, because I was talking about what they have proven right now. I was not talking about potential nor about what they'd proven at the same age. Just straight up, what they'd proven right now.

edit: Interestingly, I just looked it up, and the two have identical playoff stats as well: 1g, 1a

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Old
02-14-2004, 08:51 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
Their point totals are near identical, although most would argue that goals are more important than assists, especially when one is playing on a team with as talented goal scorers as the Senators.

Points aside, since there's all of one point difference, Hunter's game is far more complete. Has Spezza proven he can bring a consistent physical game? Has Spezza proven that not only is he not a liability in his own end, but that he is the sort of player you want on the ice in the last two minutes protecting a lead? And can he do it all while only taking 12PIM's? To my knowledge he hasn't, but I'll admit I probably don't watch him as much as you. But I can tell you that Hunter definitely has, and that's where that statement came from.

Age means nothing, because I was talking about what they have proven right now. I was not talking about potential nor about what they'd proven at the same age. Just straight up, what they'd proven right now.

edit: Interestingly, I just looked it up, and the two have identical playoff stats as well: 1g, 1a
Spezza is 20, Hunter is 23. Hunter spent 3 years in minor pro working on his overall game.

They are 2 different players that is liek asking who would you rather have:

Martin St-Louis

or

Glen Murray

Murray is more complete yet that doesnt mean people would rather have him over St-Louis.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:05 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
I disagree with you on one part. Spezza has proven more than Hunter at this point.

Spezza has 19 goals to Hunters 22
Spezza has 23 assists to Hunters 19

And Spezza is 3 years younger.

You have to look at the lines they have played with. Spezza has played with better lines than Hunter has.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:06 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255
You have to look at the lines they have played with. Spezza has played with better lines than Hunter has.
Who does Hunter usually play with?

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:10 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
Their point totals are near identical, although most would argue that goals are more important than assists, especially when one is playing on a team with as talented goal scorers as the Senators.

Points aside, since there's all of one point difference, Hunter's game is far more complete. Has Spezza proven he can bring a consistent physical game? Has Spezza proven that not only is he not a liability in his own end, but that he is the sort of player you want on the ice in the last two minutes protecting a lead? And can he do it all while only taking 12PIM's? To my knowledge he hasn't, but I'll admit I probably don't watch him as much as you. But I can tell you that Hunter definitely has, and that's where that statement came from.

Age means nothing, because I was talking about what they have proven right now. I was not talking about potential nor about what they'd proven at the same age. Just straight up, what they'd proven right now.

edit: Interestingly, I just looked it up, and the two have identical playoff stats as well: 1g, 1a

Another reason you can't really bring up age is the fact they are different type players. speeza is along the lines of a playmaker while Hunter is a Power Fwd. Power Foward's generally take longer to develop than playmaking centers. In my opinon I would rather take Hunyer ( I'm probably being biased since I;m an Isles fan). Speeza could very well wind up to be a better offensive player than Hunter, but overall Hunter just brings more to the game with his play in his zone and his physical game.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
Who does Hunter usually play with?
Hunter has moved around a bit, but he has played on lines with Blake, Bates, Czerkawki, Kvasha, Weinhandl, Papineau, Asham, Scatchard and some playing time with Peca. He seems to make the guys around him better in which, Hunter usually will get moved in with a line that is struggling & that line will suddenly become the Isles best line. Yashin's has been out for 2 months and even before that he didn't get any real playing time with yashin, but putting him on a line with someone like Yashin could really do some damage.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:24 PM
  #32
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Spezza is earning 3 line EV hockey and 2 Line PP time.... About 12 to 16 minute per game... (An average of 14 minutes...)

And he is PRODUCING...

Today, he played the most part of the game with Chris Neil and Josh Langfeld...

Spezza almost already played with every Sens player...

To Alfredsson, to Sheafer, to Hossa, To Havlat, to Neil, to Van Allen, to Langfeld, To Hamel/Vermette, to Smolinsky etc...

For me it's a joke comparing Hunter to Spezza. and it's nothing to Hunter... But man, we are taking about one of the better, if not, the better, forward young player in the NHL aside from Kovalchuk and or Rick Nash...

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Old
02-15-2004, 04:53 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255
Hunter has moved around a bit, but he has played on lines with Blake, Bates, Czerkawki, Kvasha, Weinhandl, Papineau, Asham, Scatchard and some playing time with Peca. He seems to make the guys around him better in which, Hunter usually will get moved in with a line that is struggling & that line will suddenly become the Isles best line. Yashin's has been out for 2 months and even before that he didn't get any real playing time with yashin, but putting him on a line with someone like Yashin could really do some damage.

So their are only 2 guys that he hasn't been on a line with ! That's a whole lot of line shufflin' .

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Old
02-15-2004, 10:40 AM
  #34
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Spezza without a doubt. You're kidding yourself if you think Trent Hunter is going to be a top player in this league. He's 3 years older than Spezza as a rookie, gets more playing time..and yet he's got what, the same or 1 point more than him? I still don't think Spezza has come even close to what he's going to be some day, so this is a no brainer.

The people picking Hunter are those who only watch NYI games (I feel for them). I've seen many Ottawa games and I've seen quite a few NYI ones where Trent Hunter was playing. IMO he's nothing special, he's just had a good year by his standards.

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Old
02-15-2004, 10:44 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
Spezza is 20, Hunter is 23. Hunter spent 3 years in minor pro working on his overall game.

They are 2 different players that is liek asking who would you rather have:

Martin St-Louis

or

Glen Murray

Murray is more complete yet that doesnt mean people would rather have him over St-Louis.
Nice reading comprehension skills. Osgood is more proven than MA FLeury, but I'd still take Fleury over him without thinking twice. My original post said that Spezza had the potential to be the better player and that he had a rarer talent. I thought I made it clear that I'd rather have Spezza than Hunter. At no point do I imply that Hunter is the more valuable player. Just that he is more proven.

If Spezza can't bring Hunter's intangibles, he'd better be outscoring Hunter at a decent clip, or carrying an offensive line and scoring timely goals. If he isn't doing that, then on the ice right now he is a less desirable player and that translates as less proven. I believe that Spezza will most likely end up outscoring Hunter by a good amount. He could well still develop a strong defensive game and he has the size to add a physical game. But when you're talking about what a player has proven, you aren't talking potential.

If I were going to look solely at what each had accomplished so far in their careers, and I could pick one to take into the playoffs I would take Hunter, no questions asked. That's me though. Saying a player is more proven doesn't mean they are better, more talented or more desirable. It just means they've accomplished more. When two players have nearly identical scoring histories, the player that has proven he is more valuable to his team in other areas is the more proven player.

By the way, St Lous is currently on pace for 40g 90p, Murray is on pace for 30g, 60p. If that were the case with Spezza and Hunter, I wouldn't say Hunter is the more proven player. But it isn't.

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Old
02-15-2004, 11:00 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezNc
Spezza is earning 3 line EV hockey and 2 Line PP time.... About 12 to 16 minute per game... (An average of 14 minutes...)

And he is PRODUCING...

Today, he played the most part of the game with Chris Neil and Josh Langfeld...

Spezza almost already played with every Sens player...

To Alfredsson, to Sheafer, to Hossa, To Havlat, to Neil, to Van Allen, to Langfeld, To Hamel/Vermette, to Smolinsky etc...

For me it's a joke comparing Hunter to Spezza. and it's nothing to Hunter... But man, we are taking about one of the better, if not, the better, forward young player in the NHL aside from Kovalchuk and or Rick Nash...
PLAYER GP TOI TOI/g ESTOI ESTOI/g PPTOI PPTOI/g SHTOI SHTOI/g SFT/g
SPEZZA 54 783:06 14:30 618:00 11:26 163:29 3:01 1:37 0:01 19.5
HUNTER 51 808:28 15:51 694:08 13:36 111:52 2:11 2:28 0:02 21.1

Not a very strong argument. Their ice time is nearly identical, Hunter gets two extra minutes of even strength, Spezza gets get an extra minute on the PP.

Hunter has been shuffled to any line that's struggling, and has played with just about every forward on the Isles... if not every forward on the Isles, Stirling loves juggling lines. He's produced regardless of who you put him with. And Hunter was not so lucky to play with such offensive talents as Havlat, Hossa and Alfreddson on any of the lines he's been on, much less having one them on 3/4 of the lines you've played on.

I am NOT saying Hunter will be better, but right now, I think he's accomplishing more. However, that should be expected when you've had an extra three years to develop and polish your game.

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Old
02-15-2004, 06:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting004
Spezza without a doubt. You're kidding yourself if you think Trent Hunter is going to be a top player in this league. He's 3 years older than Spezza as a rookie, gets more playing time..and yet he's got what, the same or 1 point more than him? I still don't think Spezza has come even close to what he's going to be some day, so this is a no brainer.

The people picking Hunter are those who only watch NYI games (I feel for them). I've seen many Ottawa games and I've seen quite a few NYI ones where Trent Hunter was playing. IMO he's nothing special, he's just had a good year by his standards.

As far as playing time goes its not like Hunter is getting vastly more playing time, Hunter gets a little under 16 minutes of ice time per game, Speeza gets 14 and a half

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Old
02-15-2004, 06:57 PM
  #38
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Oh man. Without even reading this I know it is going to get ugly. Sens fans are going to come out in droves.......

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Old
02-15-2004, 10:14 PM
  #39
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I can handle a lot of comparisons....but this is getting out of hand..it's getting out of line....

Spezza is a stud

in a word Hunter is a hack

Gary Roberts is a hack and he scored 53 goals one year

so no slight to Mr Trent

but give me a break, Spezza all the way

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Old
02-15-2004, 10:17 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingboy2999
Oh man. Without even reading this I know it is going to get ugly. Sens fans are going to come out in droves.......

Funny you should say that, because all I see is several Islanders fans adamently attempting to justify the comparison while Sens fans, myself included, really feel no need to give this silly comparison the time of day.
The answer is obvious enough.

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