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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread V

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:20 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Or figure it out and start contributing. And there's nothing to say we can make a deal before the deadline. I just don't see it as a priority. It's not even like it's Miller or bust because we also have Lindberg.
fair enough. never really had a problem with camp invites, as long as they are cut quickly if things dont work out (Nedved for example)

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06-27-2014, 12:21 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So, thats still 7 NHL'ers in the group.

See why its tough to take you seriously?
Not really? Considering that we're currently fielding, by my count, 9 of our own home grown prospects/international signings... most of which came within a 2-3 year radius of each other.

Girardi, Staal, Henrik, D. Moore

Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin, Talbot, Zucarello

And are likely looking at injecting 3/6 of my list (at least) on next year's team.

So is claiming that 3 more prospects, 1 of which is at the very least a spare 13th forward for this team, have NHL futures... really so out there?

It's certainly not as out there as you, who has never seen them play consistently in the minors, who has an inherently pessimistic view on many Rangers related subjects (reference: BleedRangerBlue posts; "Ranger likelihood of making playoffs", September - January; addendum: "Ranger likelihood of going deep in playoffs" January-May), commenting authoritatively on something you personally don't know anything about.

Edit: and what of all the prospects that we had that made it that we traded away/waived? Dubi, Cally, Anisimov, Korps, Byers, etc.

We definitely have had a decent success rate of guys in our system since Sather has been here.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:22 PM
  #228
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Leddy is only 3 years older than Skjei, and is about to play his 5th NHL season vs Skjei not having sniffed the AMERICAN hockey league yet.

Leddy is still developing and improving at a mere 23.

So a mediocre prospect gets the "upside" benefit of the doubt, but a 23 year old who's already proven that at WORST he's a capable two-way defenseman on a Stanley Cup winning team doesn't get that "upside" argument?

Gotcha. My work is done here.
You get so enamored with certain players that you over value them and then claim that certain posters over value our own players. Skjei may not be highly regarded around the NHL as he is by the Rangers, but he is by the Rangers, who own his rights. He's viewed as an internal, ELC option. He's not getting thrown in with Brassard to acquire Nick ****ing Leddy, who is a decent young defenseman, but is best suited for a John Moore type role. I'm not handing the keys to LD2 and LD3 to Nick Leddy and John Moore. That has disaster written all over it.

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06-27-2014, 12:24 PM
  #229
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Just wondering where you're getting this ceiling projection about Skjei from? Chances are that you do not go to UMinn and are able to watch him on an extended period. How are you appraising his value?
By pulling it out of his rectum.

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06-27-2014, 12:25 PM
  #230
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I'm now convinced the best option for this team is to re-sign Stralman, re-sign Dom Moore and our RFAs, and roll with Miller/Lindberg/Kristo/Fast/Allen to fill gaps that arise until a trade target becomes available during the season. It's not a terrible plan. Maybe we strike gold, maybe we don't. If we don't, we'll have cap space to make a move and improve. I just don't know anymore. I don't want to lock up too much cap moving forward because I am a person who believes that Hagelin is a key part of the team and needs to be locked up next year, and Stepan and MSL need to get paid, etc. etc. and we need to find potential replacements that are making under a mill which means going with our guys.

EDIT: This also includes making moves like acquiring Morin on Chicago, for example, acquiring low cost options and giving them a shot.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:26 PM
  #231
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The Big 10 Network loves to show Minnesota games.

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06-27-2014, 12:28 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
In a second.



I don't know. Garrison is solid, but if we're doing a defense swap with Vancouver, I'd prefer Edler.



No one thought Seguin would be available last season. No one knew Hartnell was on the block either. There's always things behind the scenes going on that the typical fan doesn't catch onto.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there Max Pac rumors around December and January that he and Terrien weren't getting along and he wanted out? If it's true he's available I make a full court press to get him. Top 2 lw's Patches and Kreider, with the top 2 rw's being Nash and MSL? Lord have mercy. Makes you forget about the center issues.

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06-27-2014, 12:30 PM
  #233
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So a guy who is on Chicago's 3rd pair playing PP time with Pat Kane and Toews, or Hossa and Sharp putting up 30 points is better than Staal for this team. If we want to talk sheltered minutes, it's him. Hjalmarsson and Keith take big responsibility away from him. Similar to what Staal and McDonagh do to Moore. I don't think it'd be a great idea to have him as a Staal replacement. There is no current internal option to replace Staal or he would be traded for a center at this point. Skjei is the top guy to be there eventually. Can hope he has a meteoric rise like McDonagh did

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06-27-2014, 12:30 PM
  #234
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Where did you guys hear that Max Pac is available?

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:31 PM
  #235
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I'm looking at 4 free agent signings in a vacuum.

Ideally, you get all 4 to agree to affordable deals, but if not, then you're pretty much choosing between two sets of players.

Set 1:

D. Moore vs. B. Boyle. Who's worth more to this team? Who is a better value? Boyle offers something that no one else offers on this team. Size. Effective penalty killer. Locker room leader. Meanwhile, Moore is a great depth guy, and a guy that perhaps isn't a locker room leader with his voice but a player that others rally around and support.

Lindberg could step in and provide what Moore gives, no one can do that for Boyle. To me, if it comes down to money, you keep Boyle, and if need be, let Moore walk.

Set 2:

J. Moore vs. Stralman. How can this be the 2nd set, you ask. Well let's say that we're about .5-.75 mill away from Anton's eventual contract AAV. That's Moore's increase in RFA. Allen has minimum contract and could replicate what Moore does... but is giving away Moore at such a young age stupid?

To me. The choices are simple if I had to choose between both. I'd give Boyle more money to stay at D. Moore's expense, no matter how much I like Moore. I'd give Stralman more money to stay rather than extending J. Moore. I'd have Allen play on the 3rd pairing and I'd have Lindberg slot into the 4th line.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:31 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by OnlyRevolutions View Post
If Brassard could be moved for Leddy and Morin, I'd be on board with that move. Granted, we'd have a big hole to fill in the center position. I wrote a long and detailed post about this just now, but I lost it when the thread was locked.


Kreider - Step - Nash
Hags - ??? - MSL
Morin - Miller - Zuccs
Lindberg - Moore - Dorsett
extra UFA - $~925k

McD - G
Leddy - Stralman
Moore - Klein
Diaz - $~925k

Assuming $1 mil to operate during the season and a $70 mil cap, it would leave us $4.5 mil in space to acquire a 2C in a deal that sends Staal out. I'd look for an under-the-radar move as opposed to ROR. If Miller isn't a fit, there are inexpensive options to be had (Mueller comes to mind). Could always switch and have Hags in Morin's spot. Zuccs and Hags both play 200 ft. games and could help Miller's learning curve.

This would give us our ever-elusive offensive d-man.

I'd rather try a different tack, because Bras + Zuc have great chemistry.
If I trade either, I'd rather move them as a package and try to get the higher value, the synergy of two together worth more than 2 separately.

Leddy is an option, but Zack Redmond is righty Jets UFA, an el cheapo special.

This is what I do about Morin+.
Stralman wants great place for family and security = long term
Chicago = check
Hawks want Stralman as upgrade on increasing costs of lesser pairings, and insurance vs injury on top guys. Hawks need min annual cap hit; can fit Stralman flipping others.

Stralman agrees with us 6 years, 4 m per Rangers eat 1m per cap hit.
This is a big consideration to Chicago.

So for Stralman and Kristo, a skilled project with upside
and two Ranger #4s 2014 and 2015, say

We get
Morin + Hayes + Rundblad (a skilled project with upside) + two Hawk #2s 2014 and 2015
we are eating 1 mil in cap for 6 years but we got value for Stralman

And picks, we're recovering still from the lunacy of these last coupla years and our 1sts. Grab the 2s for the 4s.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:32 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Where did you guys hear that Max Pac is available?
There's a thread on the trade board.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:33 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
The Big 10 Network loves to show Minnesota games.
How many people a) have that in their cable packages and b) watch it on a consistent basis?

I barely had time to watch some Rangers games this year... let alone peruse the contents of other channels for college hockey.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:35 PM
  #239
Brian Boyle
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How many people a) have that in their cable packages and b) watch it on a consistent basis?
I don't have this data in front of me.

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06-27-2014, 12:35 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
This is my ideal plan:

1) Brassard and Skjei for Leddy and Morin

(Chicago needs a 2C. We need the LD depth so we can move Staal for ROR. And we can afford to include Skjei because Leddy (only 23) IS exactly what Skjei projects to be in a few years)

2) Staal for Ryan O'Reilly

UFA SIGN:

Ryan Carter (900k x 3 years)


RFA RE-SIGN:

Zuccarello (4.2 x 4 years)
Kreider (2.5 x 2 years)
O'Reilly (6.0 x 7 years)
Kristo (qualifying offer less than 1 mil)
Morin (qualifying offer less than 1 mil)
J. Moore (1.5 x 2 years)


UFA RE-SIGN:

D. Moore (1.5 x 3 years)
Carcillo (850k x 1 year)
Stralman (4.0 x 6 years)




Zuccarello O'Reilly Nash
Kreider Stepan St. Louis
Hagelin Miller Morin/Kristo
Carcillo Moore Carter

Fast

McDonagh Girardi
Leddy Stralman
Moore Klein
Allen

Lundqvist
Talbot


Morin/Kristo battle in training camp for that 3W spot. Both are right-handed shots, something that we lacked last season. If Miller/Lindberg aren't ready for the 3C position, there's still enough cap-space to find a reasonable stop-gap like Santorelli or Goc for cheap. Dorsett can be moved at the draft for a 4th or 5th. His 1.6 is simply too much for his fourth-line role in this scenario.

With McDonagh, Leddy, and Moore on the left side, we'd have one of the quickest, most mobile defenses in the league. On the right side, Girardi and Klein aren't exactly speed demons, but Stralman is mobile enough to skate the puck out of harm's way. All together, I feel that's a very strong blue-line.


PAYROLL ends up being aronud 68.5 mil, with 13th F and 7th D accounted for. That's about 1 mil in cap-space according to the latest cap-ceiling estimates.

To me, that's a roster that could get back to the SCF. Leddy replacing Staal gives us even more speed, mobility, and offense from the blue-line. O'Reilly bumps Stepan down where he belongs and gives us the center depth we sorely lacked in the Final. We basically improved Brassard to O'Reilly, and replaced Staal with Leddy (not nearly as good defensively as Staal, but better offensively and skates like the wind). Boyle, Dorsett, Pouliot out. Carcillo, Carter, Kristo/Morin in.

Thoughts?
Short answer:
Skjei is another major chip, not just some other prospect we have.
His skating is not at level of Kreider, but it is a serious asset.
You trade our best prospects for guys not worth it, esp in the long run.

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06-27-2014, 12:35 PM
  #241
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I'm looking at 4 free agent signings in a vacuum.

Ideally, you get all 4 to agree to affordable deals, but if not, then you're pretty much choosing between two sets of players.

Set 1:

D. Moore vs. B. Boyle. Who's worth more to this team? Who is a better value? Boyle offers something that no one else offers on this team. Size. Effective penalty killer. Locker room leader. Meanwhile, Moore is a great depth guy, and a guy that perhaps isn't a locker room leader with his voice but a player that others rally around and support.

Lindberg could step in and provide what Moore gives, no one can do that for Boyle. To me, if it comes down to money, you keep Boyle, and if need be, let Moore walk.

Set 2:

J. Moore vs. Stralman. How can this be the 2nd set, you ask. Well let's say that we're about .5-.75 mill away from Anton's eventual contract AAV. That's Moore's increase in RFA. Allen has minimum contract and could replicate what Moore does... but is giving away Moore at such a young age stupid?

To me. The choices are simple if I had to choose between both. I'd give Boyle more money to stay at D. Moore's expense, no matter how much I like Moore. I'd give Stralman more money to stay rather than extending J. Moore. I'd have Allen play on the 3rd pairing and I'd have Lindberg slot into the 4th line.
not qualifying or trading Moore while keeping Stralman is a good point, but the cap hits are gonna be a huge difference is the only thing.. can we really lock up 4 of our d men on long term deals with minimal offense provided from everyone but Mac?

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06-27-2014, 12:37 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
So a guy who is on Chicago's 3rd pair playing PP time with Pat Kane and Toews, or Hossa and Sharp putting up 30 points is better than Staal for this team. If we want to talk sheltered minutes, it's him. Hjalmarsson and Keith take big responsibility away from him. Similar to what Staal and McDonagh do to Moore. I don't think it'd be a great idea to have him as a Staal replacement. There is no current internal option to replace Staal or he would be traded for a center at this point. Skjei is the top guy to be there eventually. Can hope he has a meteoric rise like McDonagh did
I watched that team a lot during the Frozen Four tournament. Watched 4 games. Not saying he can ever attain this, but the way he approaches the game reminds me of McD.

Similar mobility, similar passing, and an above average shot.

The IQ and tools are pretty similar, IMO, what could define Skjei's success is his motivation. McD's focus and determination to not only make the NHL but be an impact player made him into the star that he is today. Tough to predict whether Skjei could have the same meteoric rise.

But the tools and the IQ is definitely there, from the 4 games that I watched.

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06-27-2014, 12:37 PM
  #243
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Ken Hughes hasn't had many extensive discussions with Jeff Gorton about his client. Pouliot wants to cash in on his season and sign a long-term contract. The Rangers are better off with Fast. Right-handed shot. Pouliot is cinderella. Its only a matter of time before he reverts back to being the inconsistent player who bounced around from Minnesota to Montreal to Boston to TB to New York. He took some stupid penalties in the playoffs. The Rangers signed him a one year deal where Pouliot took a $500,000 pay cut. Don't push your luck and sign this guy.
Agreed.
So much don't want to be stuck with him, don't want to try and sign and flip.

We can do a better W for Zuc -bras

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06-27-2014, 12:37 PM
  #244
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I don't have this data in front of me.



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06-27-2014, 12:38 PM
  #245
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I'm now convinced the best option for this team is to re-sign Stralman, re-sign Dom Moore and our RFAs, and roll with Miller/Lindberg/Kristo/Fast/Allen to fill gaps
This part I would agree with. I'd add Pouliot too depending on contract.


I guess all of them would depend on contract.

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06-27-2014, 12:39 PM
  #246
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Right now the cap for next season will be at $68M and that's causing problems. But wait ! NHL and NHLPA are still talking. Final # to come.

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06-27-2014, 12:41 PM
  #247
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Betting on McI I feel would be a horrible mistake
You usually go with the vets.
Gotta let youth break in, my friend.

Every time I said plant a seed, he said, kill it before it grows.

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06-27-2014, 12:43 PM
  #248
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“@ChrisKuc: Source says #Blackhawks are listening to offers for winger Patrick Sharp.”

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06-27-2014, 12:43 PM
  #249
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I watched that team a lot during the Frozen Four tournament. Watched 4 games. Not saying he can ever attain this, but the way he approaches the game reminds me of McD.

Similar mobility, similar passing, and an above average shot.

The IQ and tools are pretty similar, IMO, what could define Skjei's success is his motivation. McD's focus and determination to not only make the NHL but be an impact player made him into the star that he is today. Tough to predict whether Skjei could have the same meteoric rise.

But the tools and the IQ is definitely there, from the 4 games that I watched.
That was his Draft comparison when we took him. This would be his junior season. McDonagh left after his junior year. Half season in AHL. 2nd pairing by end of the season. Became top pair guy when Staal got hurt the next season. Essentially became top 4 less than a season into pro career. If Skjei leaves now, I'd expect a full AHL season.

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06-27-2014, 12:44 PM
  #250
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I don't have this data in front of me.
It was a rhetorical question meant to emphasize the unlikelihood of having the channel to begin with and low probability of watching what was on it even if you did.

How often does a Mets fan watch the Las Vegas 51s because Noah Syndergaard is on that team? Not many games, i'd care to wager.

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