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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread V

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Old
06-28-2014, 03:21 PM
  #701
Callahan Auto
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Numbers are great but the Klein-Moore pairing was MUCH, MUCH better if you watched all the games, which I did (okay, I missed like 5 games this season but still).

EDIT: And the goal differential stats aren't as cut and dry as you're implying. While the total differential is better for Del Zotto, the ratio leans towards Klein. 1.273 more goals for Del Zotto but 1.319 more goals allowed.


Last edited by Callahan Auto: 06-28-2014 at 03:26 PM.
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06-28-2014, 03:21 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and we will also find out how good Stralman is playing without Staal or Henrik Lundqvist behind him. Should be interesting
I don't think interesting will be the word people will be using when they see Stralman thrive and our D get worse.

Edit: also, lol what the **** does Lundqvist have to do with Stralman's play?

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06-28-2014, 03:26 PM
  #703
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I'm not arguing Klein vs Strålman, I'm arguing Klein vs Del Zotto. Del Zotto was better in the role the NYR used them in. Bad trade.
Klein out scored Del Zotto post trade. DZ was ****ing awful

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06-28-2014, 03:27 PM
  #704
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I'm not arguing Klein vs Strålman, I'm arguing Klein vs Del Zotto. Del Zotto was better in the role the NYR used them in. Bad trade.
Are you ****ing kidding? Del Zotto was a disaster and there was a noticeable difference in Moore's game after Klein was acquired. Klein steadied that 3rd pairing. You have to be ****ing kidding me. Del Zotto is about to be non-tendered by the Predators because he's ****ing garbage.

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06-28-2014, 03:34 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Are you ****ing kidding? Del Zotto was a disaster and there was a noticeable difference in Moore's game after Klein was acquired. Klein steadied that 3rd pairing. You have to be ****ing kidding me. Del Zotto is about to be non-tendered by the Predators because he's ****ing garbage.
Yes the Moore-Klein let in slightly fewer goals than Moore-Del Zotto, but they were worse in every other measurable way. Del Zotto might have been a disaster in Nashville, but he was better than Klein on our third pairing if we look at actual results rather than that they "seem steady" or whatever the **** that is.

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06-28-2014, 03:35 PM
  #706
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Lol Klein gets so much hate by this board it's ridiculous.

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06-28-2014, 03:36 PM
  #707
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Lol Klein gets so much hate by this board it's ridiculous.
I'd argue the extent he gets a free pass around here is ridiculous. Only a small contingent calls him out.

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06-28-2014, 03:38 PM
  #708
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Yes we have been here before, he is just way better than you give him credit and why you can't see it I don't know but have you ever ask yourself why does all these people rate him that much higher than you do?

And you will put up some fancy stats trying to say he's Bickel 2.0
Because they want to believe what their brain wants to tell them, even if it's not factual!

Also note below (not only one):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Conclusion

Our third pairing got significantly worse after the trade and I'd take it back in a second if I could. Klein is not worth his contract on the Rangers and should be traded.
Same here. Even I'd rather not qualify MDZ then trade for Klein. He hasn't been good at all and I definitely don't agree with the eye test. From the eye test I see a confused defender who has no idea how to handle the puck or make efficient clearing plays. Doesn't seem to hit, take hits or clear the crease. Seemingly AV deploys him in a non-PKing, non PP and soft ES role to shelter him from opposing players. Moore averaged more playoff TOI/PG.

Tell me one thing, how can one logically expect a player go from #6 in ice time per game in a reduced role while struggling to maintain puck possession to a shutdown#4 role and fill in adequately?

That's worse than claiming Derek Dorsett can fill in a scoring top 6 role.

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06-28-2014, 03:39 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Yes the Moore-Klein let in slightly fewer goals than Moore-Del Zotto, but they were worse in every other measurable way. Del Zotto might have been a disaster in Nashville, but he was better than Klein on our third pairing if we look at actual results rather than that they "seem steady" or whatever the **** that is.
Whatever the **** that is? Some things cannot be measured by a statistic. Look at Moore's progression last year. In the first half of the season, people were clamoring for him to go, and once Klein arrived, you could notice a rise of comfort and confidence in his game.

If you want to say that Klein can't replace Stralman, it's been debated ad nauseam. Now this ******** about Del Zotto - give me a ****ing break. This is a joke. Post all the statistics you like. It doesn't matter. Del Zotto was awful in his own zone and it affected Moore's game significantly. Those are facts. If you watched every single Rangers game and didn't conclude that, then I don't know what the hell you were watching.

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06-28-2014, 03:39 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
I'd argue the extent he gets a free pass around here is ridiculous. Only a small contingent calls him out.
That small contingent is wrong

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06-28-2014, 03:41 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Yes the Moore-Klein let in slightly fewer goals than Moore-Del Zotto, but they were worse in every other measurable way. Del Zotto might have been a disaster in Nashville, but he was better than Klein on our third pairing if we look at actual results rather than that they "seem steady" or whatever the **** that is.
Somehow using profanity and nationalistic generalization makes Klein a good top 4 defender.

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06-28-2014, 03:42 PM
  #712
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you guys LOOOOOVVVVEEEEEE stats.. that **** barely tells half the story..

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06-28-2014, 03:42 PM
  #713
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Cannot even deal with the idiocy in this thread. The hate for Klein is distasteful. Some of you "experts" need to follow another sport

Klein was steady. He played tough and didnt hurt us. He made John Moore so much better. Just because wasnt flashy doesnt mean he didnt play well.

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06-28-2014, 03:45 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Whatever the **** that is? Some things cannot be measured by a statistic. Look at Moore's progression last year. In the first half of the season, people were clamoring for him to go, and once Klein arrived, you could notice a rise of comfort and confidence in his game.

If you want to say that Klein can't replace Stralman, it's been debated ad nauseam. Now this ******** about Del Zotto - give me a ****ing break. This is a joke. Post all the statistics you like. It doesn't matter. Del Zotto was awful in his own zone and it affected Moore's game significantly. Those are facts. If you watched every single Rangers game and didn't conclude that, then I don't know what the hell you were watching.
Unless you have actual proof, that is just your opinion. I provided actual facts that Moore-Del Zotto performed better.

You could argue that Moore-Klein might perform better in the future (though considering their possession statistics that is highly unlikely), but it is an actual fact that Moore-Del Zotto did more to help this team win than Moore-Klein.

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06-28-2014, 03:45 PM
  #715
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Klein is miles ahead of Del Zotto.

I don't know how you could argue otherwise. That's outrageous.

Funny how most posters who dislike Klein have a Swedish flag location. Weird

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06-28-2014, 03:46 PM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Cannot even deal with the idiocy in this thread. The hate for Klein is distasteful. Some of you "experts" need to follow another sport

Klein was steady. He played tough and didnt hurt us. He made John Moore so much better. Just because wasnt flashy doesnt mean he didnt play well.
John Moore was still awful except when starting against incredibly weak competition in the offensive zone....

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06-28-2014, 03:48 PM
  #717
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lolol "hate" "distasteful"

Oh boy, it's getting serious in here now.

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06-28-2014, 03:48 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Klein is miles ahead of Del Zotto.

I don't know how you could argue otherwise. That's outrageous.

Funny how most posters who dislike Klein have a Swedish flag location. Weird
Most of the posters who dislike Klein (-Dirty Won-, Blue Blooded) are some of the more intelligent posters here.

I don't think Klein is bad. But Stralman is SIGNIFICANTLY better and when you can get a 2nd/3rd round pick and clear out 2.9 million in cap space for a much better defenseman, it doesn't make sense not to do that.

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06-28-2014, 03:48 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Unless you have actual proof, that is just your opinion. I provided actual facts that Moore-Del Zotto performed better.

You could argue that Moore-Klein might perform better in the future (though considering their possession statistics that is highly unlikely), but it is an actual fact that Moore-Del Zotto did more to help this team win than Moore-Klein.
Huh. That's odd.

Rangers record with Del Zotto: 27-22-3
Rangers record with Klein: 18-8-3

One of those Win/Loss spreads is better than the other. I'm not a mathematician or anything, but I can see that.

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06-28-2014, 03:49 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Most of the posters who dislike Klein (-Dirty Won-, Blue Blooded) are some of the more intelligent posters here.

I don't think Klein is bad. But Stralman is SIGNIFICANTLY better and when you can get a 2nd/3rd round pick and clear out 2.9 million in cap space for a much better defenseman, it doesn't make sense not to do that.
Stralman is better, but far from SIGNIFICANTLY better.

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06-28-2014, 03:49 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Klein is miles ahead of Del Zotto.

I don't know how you could argue otherwise. That's outrageous.

Funny how most posters who dislike Klein have a Swedish flag location. Weird
This is by far the most obnoxious, pompous **** written on these boards.

Funny how nothing gets removed though.

Well done, Mods.

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06-28-2014, 03:50 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Klein is miles ahead of Del Zotto.

I don't know how you could argue otherwise. That's outrageous.

Funny how most posters who dislike Klein have a Swedish flag location. Weird
Well, we aren't exposed to the narratives of the NA hockey media so I'd argue we would technically be inclined to less biased opinions.

Re: Strålman. I couldn't care less about him being Swedish, and he isn't even part of this discussion!

FYI I think Doug Murray has been basically the worst defenceman in the league over the past few years.

Nationality has nothing to do with it, it is all about player skill.

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06-28-2014, 03:50 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Unless you have actual proof, that is just your opinion. I provided actual facts that Moore-Del Zotto performed better.

You could argue that Moore-Klein might perform better in the future (though considering their possession statistics that is highly unlikely), but it is an actual fact that Moore-Del Zotto did more to help this team win than Moore-Klein.
You posted statistics. Statistics can be manipulated and used to further your argument but are not conclusive. There's more to hockey than ****ing statistics. I'm getting tired of these possession statistics. I find them interesting and useful, but the way people are basing all of their conclusions on them is nauseating.

What did you see when you watched the games? You watched the games, I presume. What did you see? Was Del Zotto better or worse for Moore's game?

I'll post this again.

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."
- Aaron Levenstein

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06-28-2014, 03:50 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Huh. That's odd.

Rangers record with Del Zotto: 27-22-3
Rangers record with Klein: 18-8-3

One of those Win/Loss spreads is better than the other. I'm not a mathematician or anything, but I can see that.
Okay but,

why does that have to have anything to do with Klein or Del Zotto.

People said the same thing about Carcillo joining the team, lol.

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06-28-2014, 03:50 PM
  #725
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Huh. That's odd.

Rangers record with Del Zotto: 27-22-3
Rangers record with Klein: 18-8-3

One of those Win/Loss spreads is better than the other. I'm not a mathematician or anything, but I can see that.
Did Klein make Derek Stepan produce at a near PPG pace? Did Klein make Hank's stats normalize towards his career averages?

There are 18 other players on the team that have, at the very least, just as much to do with the better record than Klein.

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