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KHL Contraction Part I (Mod Warning - Post #15)

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06-27-2014, 03:49 PM
  #126
Ryker
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
NHL operates in only two countries... it didn't steal teams from other leagues (like Jokerit or Slovan) or buy itself into markets with new teams to compete with long storied traditional clubs in the local leagues (like Prague)
As much as I like KHL, that's one of the things I hate about it. Liiga and the Slovak Extraliga are both worse for it, and I'm not sure what the impact was on the Czech Extraliga with Lev's engagement. Those talks about Valerenga joining are also a bit disconcerting. I really don't want to see a superleague picking out the best teams from the bigger European hockey markets. In a champions' league format, yes, absolutely, but not in a season-long format.

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06-27-2014, 04:08 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
NHL operates in only two countries... it didn't steal teams from other leagues (like Jokerit or Slovan) or buy itself into markets with new teams to compete with long storied traditional clubs in the local leagues (like Prague)
Dude, you compare the NHL with all those relatively small European countries?
Furthermore, you are aware that it is physically impossible for that to happen because of the ocean separating the continents, right? Right? Come on.

At the same time you are not aware of how the NHL is desperately trying to expand wherever it possibly can ,right? Even when it is not economically logical, such as butt**** phoenix and elsewhere?

When here's some news for you, Mexico is on their radar too ! http://thelapine.ca/nhl-makes-plans-expand-mexico/ , and it has been for some time actually.



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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
As much as I like KHL, that's one of the things I hate about it. Liiga and the Slovak Extraliga are both worse for it, and I'm not sure what the impact was on the Czech Extraliga with Lev's engagement. Those talks about Valerenga joining are also a bit disconcerting. I really don't want to see a superleague picking out the best teams from the bigger European hockey markets. In a champions' league format, yes, absolutely, but not in a season-long format.
Then you should hate the NHL because the NHL took lots of those players too. Therefore the NHL potentially did even more damage.

Liga got worse because so many Finns started playing in the NHL and then KHL. Think about it for a moment. You either get swallowed by the big beast or you become part of it.
Slovan had higher ambitions for quite a while anyways. Having a new big arena was even more proof of how inadequate the national league was for the team. They would have left earlier if they were able to, but they didn't have the proper infrastructure and budget.

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06-27-2014, 04:11 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
As much as I like KHL, that's one of the things I hate about it. Liiga and the Slovak Extraliga are both worse for it, and I'm not sure what the impact was on the Czech Extraliga with Lev's engagement. Those talks about Valerenga joining are also a bit disconcerting. I really don't want to see a superleague picking out the best teams from the bigger European hockey markets. In a champions' league format, yes, absolutely, but not in a season-long format.
Vålerenga is not the best Norwegian team. Stavanger is. Vålerenga will still play in get ligaen . They will just make a New team for the KHL With New players.

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06-27-2014, 04:39 PM
  #129
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What are the chances of a big company like Gazprom financing Lev so that they will play?

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06-27-2014, 04:51 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by punchonico99 View Post
What are the chances of a big company like Gazprom financing Lev so that they will play?
I don't know, but I hope that'll happen. It would be a huge imago loss for the KHL if Lev folded.

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06-27-2014, 04:51 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
Then you should hate the NHL because the NHL took lots of those players too. Therefore the NHL potentially did even more damage.

Liga got worse because so many Finns started playing in the NHL and then KHL. Think about it for a moment. You either get swallowed by the big beast or you become part of it.
Slovan had higher ambitions for quite a while anyways. Having a new big arena was even more proof of how inadequate the national league was for the team. They would have left earlier if they were able to, but they didn't have the proper infrastructure and budget.
SHL (SEL) and NLA

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06-27-2014, 04:52 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by punchonico99 View Post
What are the chances of a big company like Gazprom financing Lev so that they will play?
Relocate it to Norway? Lev Vålerenga

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06-27-2014, 05:31 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
Dude, you compare the NHL with all those relatively small European countries?
Furthermore, you are aware that it is physically impossible for that to happen because of the ocean separating the continents, right? Right? Come on.

At the same time you are not aware of how the NHL is desperately trying to expand wherever it possibly can ,right? Even when it is not economically logical, such as butt**** phoenix and elsewhere?

When here's some news for you, Mexico is on their radar too ! http://thelapine.ca/nhl-makes-plans-expand-mexico/ , and it has been for some time actually.
I have no idea what you're on about. Phoenix did not play in any other league before joining the NHL. The NHL expands to NEW markets, it doesn't steal teams from other leagues. I have no problem with the KHL going into NEW markets like Sochi or even Zagreb since there is no Croatian league to speak of - but stop destroying the other leagues of Europe.

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06-27-2014, 07:14 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
Okay yeah, but still, if Lev was squat then they wouldn't attract a thousandish people on such short notice - https://www.facebook.com/events/6570...y_type=regular
Getting 20k to show up is a hell of an accomplishment. Even if they were squat, if they played in O2 I would guess they would be getting around 6-8k a game. They have managed over 100k facebook fans and their stories are usually like by a few thousand each time. Hell the KHL doesn't even have that many facebook fans.

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06-27-2014, 07:34 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
Okay yeah, but still, if Lev was squat then they wouldn't attract a thousandish people on such short notice - https://www.facebook.com/events/6570...y_type=regular
Like I said, the other teams were already out of the playoffs. No competition.

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06-27-2014, 07:45 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
Then you should hate the NHL because the NHL took lots of those players too. Therefore the NHL potentially did even more damage.

Liga got worse because so many Finns started playing in the NHL and then KHL. Think about it for a moment. You either get swallowed by the big beast or you become part of it.
Slovan had higher ambitions for quite a while anyways. Having a new big arena was even more proof of how inadequate the national league was for the team. They would have left earlier if they were able to, but they didn't have the proper infrastructure and budget.
The big difference here is that fans expect and hope the best Finnish players get to NHL become if not stars, at least regular players there. It's not considered stealing in any way, the transfer money usually more than compensates Finnish teams for the equivalent of the player's salary..

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06-27-2014, 09:11 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
I have no idea what you're on about. Phoenix did not play in any other league before joining the NHL. The NHL expands to NEW markets, it doesn't steal teams from other leagues. I have no problem with the KHL going into NEW markets like Sochi or even Zagreb since there is no Croatian league to speak of - but stop destroying the other leagues of Europe.
It is a real shame that you have these difficulties comprehending that you are comparing apples and oranges. Hm, jee, let me try to dumb down some key points so that you can understand.

One CAN NOT make such comparisons.
The NHL can not POSSIBLY ANYHOW expand into other leagues because they are TOO FAR away. It is not feasible however you look at it.

Lets delve a bit further though.
Would the NHL swap up other teams if they could? Absolutely. They are always trying to expand their piles of cash. This is precisely why they expand into places where they should not be in. It's not a matter of going into untapped markets, it's about them making money, and make no mistake, if they can absorb other leagues teams they would. Instead they try to absorb players, and the existence of the KHL makes the NHL furious. It hurts their plans ya know. Doesn't hurt them too much, but it certainly is not a pleasant development for them, not one bit. This is why you are critical. Again, please do not compare apples and oranges.

As for taking teams from other leagues... well in a way that did happen. You forgot about the WHA years. The NHL was furious and mad that the WHA existed. The owners were not able to make insane mad runaway profits when the WHA popped up. They proceeded to kill that league, to absorb several of its best teams..... when they can't they try to swap up the talent, or in other words, the players. They are sad that they do not have a big pool of Russian playres to swap up for peanuts anymore... the NHL expansion in the 1990s was a result, in my theory, of the big influx of Russians. They would like to suck up more talent and expand elsewhere, to Mexico City like was stated already.

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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Like I said, the other teams were already out of the playoffs. No competition.
There are so many things that one can say. You prefer to look at negatives and you don't reply to the point that the other guy made that Prague is like three times bigger in terms of population than small Bratislava.


Last edited by Killion: 06-28-2014 at 12:08 AM. Reason: go easy...
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Old
06-27-2014, 10:36 PM
  #138
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There are so many things that one can say. You prefer to look at negatives and you don't reply to the point that the other guy made that Prague is like three times bigger in terms of population than small Bratislava.
Who cares about the size, there's still two other well established hockey teams playing there. DO you really think Lev would have gotten those attendances had those clubs been in the Extraliga finals?

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06-28-2014, 12:53 AM
  #139
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I don't know, but I hope that'll happen. It would be a huge imago loss for the KHL if Lev folded.
I hope they wouldn't. It would be a horrible mistake. Lev have their chance to stand on feet and they've failed, so let them rest in peace.

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06-28-2014, 01:13 AM
  #140
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The big difference here is that fans expect and hope the best Finnish players get to NHL become if not stars, at least regular players there. It's not considered stealing in any way, the transfer money usually more than compensates Finnish teams for the equivalent of the player's salary..
Who cares what these fans thinks? Here was talk about "evil" KHL that destroys poor European leagues, so lets leave all sentimental crap aside. NHL have ten times more destructive influence on European leagues than KHL ever had or will ever have. But Europeans have got used to it over time and consider it as some sort of nature law. From the other side KHL is something new on the radar and because of that have more opposition in the mind of fans. I can understand this sentiment, but it's not a KHL problem or fault.

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06-28-2014, 04:57 AM
  #141
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Who cares what these fans thinks? Here was talk about "evil" KHL that destroys poor European leagues, so lets leave all sentimental crap aside. NHL have ten times more destructive influence on European leagues than KHL ever had or will ever have. But Europeans have got used to it over time and consider it as some sort of nature law. From the other side KHL is something new on the radar and because of that have more opposition in the mind of fans. I can understand this sentiment, but it's not a KHL problem or fault.
It is not? SO why Medvedev said that Kosice could be welcomed in KHL? Is he really interested what would happened to slovak league? (with about 15 players in NHL, just to avoid talks about NHL massive impact there). And I am pretty sure he would be eager to attract Sparta or Slavia instead of Lev....We can talk about NHL negative impact in players trades, int. tournaments etc, but this is something much more agrgressive and unnatural...

Just express my opinion - as far I would love to see again Sparta -Slovan matches in czech league or in CHL, I have to say that leaving slovak league was a mistake and just a short time solution of decreasing quality of slovak hockey. With traditional teams like Kosice, Slovan or Trencin, this league would still have a potentional to be a good one, once they put together their hockey program....

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06-28-2014, 05:18 AM
  #142
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Then how do you explain that Bratislava with a not so great team sells out every game? That is proof that it is not necessary to have the best team to do well.

Lev is simply somewhat new there. That's it. People are sucking them up quickly though, I think. For attendance - their attendance could be better, but it is indeed okay attendance. Furthermore, as we saw in the playoffs, they broke the KHL records more than once. This next season should see continued fan presence based on that success, I think.


And that nobody cares about Lev there - well, check this out, http://www.levpraha.cz/clanek.asp?id...rt-arenou-1684 , those are real people mhmm.





The poprad club was a temporary project, intended to be temporary. The prague team is more long term, or at least I hope it is. Having a team in such a city is a matter of prestige for the league.
You can not compare Slovan and Lev brand in any cases. It is like comparing Canadiens and Aneheim...

It does not matter if it was longterm or shortterm project. Local gov. did a lot for it and they just left debts there with no help from KHL. Speaking about Lev Prague - the same owners also acquired Sparta and basketball club Nymburk. As far as I know, even in Sparta they had vision maximally for next two years, they did not know what happens afterthat. I assume it would be same for Lev or even worse. The way how they rotate players in Lev could show you that there was never any longterm plan. They just did it from season to season....

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06-28-2014, 05:34 AM
  #143
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As much as I like KHL, that's one of the things I hate about it. Liiga and the Slovak Extraliga are both worse for it, and I'm not sure what the impact was on the Czech Extraliga with Lev's engagement. Those talks about Valerenga joining are also a bit disconcerting. I really don't want to see a superleague picking out the best teams from the bigger European hockey markets. In a champions' league format, yes, absolutely, but not in a season-long format.
There is no big impact I would say. The czech hockey federation even got some money from LEV. But there is still a big risk - they had to set up a new team because people would not accept to let any of traditional team go to KHL. And because everybody knows what is cheaper for owners and what would the KHL management like to see, this issue is still in the air.....

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06-28-2014, 06:33 PM
  #144
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Who cares about the size, there's still two other well established hockey teams playing there. DO you really think Lev would have gotten those attendances had those clubs been in the Extraliga finals?
Yes. Or, if not that much, I would have still expected high attendance.

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Just express my opinion - as far I would love to see again Sparta -Slovan matches in czech league or in CHL, I have to say that leaving slovak league was a mistake and just a short time solution of decreasing quality of slovak hockey. With traditional teams like Kosice, Slovan or Trencin, this league would still have a potentional to be a good one, once they put together their hockey program....
The czechs did not want slovan or other slovakian teams in their league however.
Also, most slovan fans really like the KHL as far as I can tell.

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06-29-2014, 12:07 PM
  #145
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Kosice can replace Lev

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06-29-2014, 12:18 PM
  #146
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Kosice can replace Lev
No. It will be only a matter of time until it contracts again. Kosice is far too small a city to have a KHL team, I'd say. Maybe it could be a temporary one season solution, but even so it is not a permanent solution so why bother?

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06-29-2014, 01:14 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
No. It will be only a matter of time until it contracts again. Kosice is far too small a city to have a KHL team, I'd say. Maybe it could be a temporary one season solution, but even so it is not a permanent solution so why bother?
What does size of the city have to do with it? It's bigger than Khanty-Mansiysk, and not much smaller than Sochi, Cherepovets and Magnitogorsk. As long as they can fill out the arena, that's all that matters. Maybe not even that, as is evidenced by some Russian teams not filling out theirs.

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06-29-2014, 01:55 PM
  #148
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No. It will be only a matter of time until it contracts again. Kosice is far too small a city to have a KHL team, I'd say. Maybe it could be a temporary one season solution, but even so it is not a permanent solution so why bother?
Malmö in Sweden has around the same number of inhabitants, so why would the city be too small?

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06-29-2014, 01:56 PM
  #149
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Yes. Or, if not that much, I would have still expected high attendance.



The czechs did not want slovan or other slovakian teams in their league however.
Also, most slovan fans really like the KHL as far as I can tell
.

For sure they love it. but it was a mistake for slovak hockey in general.....That is why they had to set up a new team in CZ.....

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06-29-2014, 03:18 PM
  #150
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No. It will be only a matter of time until it contracts again. Kosice is far too small a city to have a KHL team, I'd say. Maybe it could be a temporary one season solution, but even so it is not a permanent solution so why bother?
Why bother? First of all u would get a great rivalry in Slovakia. This rivalry would be good for both teams as fans, tv Companies etc would spend alot of Money on hockey. More important Slovakia develops some great players and With two slovak teams the KHL will get more controll over slovakian hockey.

It makes sense. What dosent make sense is KHL in Israel, Croatia, China, South Korea, Turkey and Japan.

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