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06-29-2014, 10:11 AM
  #101
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If an entry-level contract must be a two-way contract, does that not mean that his AHL contract would preclude some other team from signing him? It seems like there'd be a conflict there, since he's signed to play for Manchester. As such, he shouldn't be able to play with some other AHL team, right?

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06-29-2014, 11:55 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Gravel can do whatever the hell he wants. I am just suggesting that he may want to stay with Kings, and may be ok with playing on an AHL deal.

I mean that is not out of the realm of possibility. Is it smart ? debatable. But if that is what Kevin wants, then cool.

If he wants to leave, that's cool as well. I'll root for him.

If he is intent on leaving, it still doesn't make sense to sign an AHL deal. If I was that confident in my ability to get an NHL contract(from another team). I wouldn't risk an injury in the AHL at all.
Of course you risk injury to go to the AHL. He, like every other player in the history of the sport has risked injury to play the game, earn a paycheque, gain valueable experience and showcase yourself. What did you think he was doing in college (minus making a paycheque)?

He's not Crosby, he needs to show his stuff, obviously LA wasn't convinced that he could play in the NHL so he wanted to prove it to them and earn a few bucks as well. If you are that worried about a career threatening injury with five games in the AHL why would even be playing to begin with?

You're clutching at straws on this.

And yes, Gravel could stay on an AHL only deal without looking around for a better offer even though he's only 23 and is finally getting his first chance to make a paycheque in a profession he's dedicated roughly 18 years of his life towards. Anything is possible, but I figured we were talking something remotely realistic, not pigs can fly type stuff.

Gravel may very well end up in Manchester on an AHL only deal but not before shopping his services around. As Holden said, he'd be an idiot not too.

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06-29-2014, 12:05 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
If an entry-level contract must be a two-way contract, does that not mean that his AHL contract would preclude some other team from signing him? It seems like there'd be a conflict there, since he's signed to play for Manchester. As such, he shouldn't be able to play with some other AHL team, right?
Actually, and I could be wrong on this but I don't think so, he can sign anywhere via a NHL contract.

The NHL contract would trump the AHL one, and once he signs a NHL deal he can be sent to the minor league affiliate of the NHL team, not Manchester.

For example, if Ottawa signed Gravel to an NHL deal but felt he needed time in the minors they would assign him to Binghampton, not to Manchester.

Also there's likely an escape clause to the AHL deal with Manchetser that it becomes null and void in the event Gravel signs an NHL deal, similar to what you see in players who sign on the play in Europe. I also beleive that Mathias Niederberger, who was signed to an AHL deal in the Kings organization, has the same out clause.

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06-29-2014, 12:15 PM
  #104
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Maybe there is something the HF Gravel hype machine has over looked, he isn't as good a prospect as they think. Maybe DL and co don't think he is worth an NHL deal and are betting the rest of the NHL feels the same?

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06-29-2014, 12:44 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Actually, and I could be wrong on this but I don't think so, he can sign anywhere via a NHL contract.

The NHL contract would trump the AHL one, and once he signs a NHL deal he can be sent to the minor league affiliate of the NHL team, not Manchester.

For example, if Ottawa signed Gravel to an NHL deal but felt he needed time in the minors they would assign him to Binghampton, not to Manchester.

Also there's likely an escape clause to the AHL deal with Manchetser that it becomes null and void in the event Gravel signs an NHL deal, similar to what you see in players who sign on the play in Europe. I also beleive that Mathias Niederberger, who was signed to an AHL deal in the Kings organization, has the same out clause.
Don't even need to. Every AHL only contract is also null and void the second an NHL deal. An AHL team offers zero protections against other NHL teams. There's no conflict for another NHL team like you say. Niederberger is the same, he's an NHL UFA that could have signed with any other NHL team at any time last year and he's AHL contract would not have been worth the paper it's printed on. Doesn't matter at all about if the NHL deal is one-way or two-way.

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06-29-2014, 12:59 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Don't even need to. Every AHL only contract is also null and void the second an NHL deal. An AHL team offers zero protections against other NHL teams. There's no conflict for another NHL team like you say. Niederberger is the same, he's an NHL UFA that could have signed with any other NHL team at any time last year and he's AHL contract would not have been worth the paper it's printed on. Doesn't matter at all about if the NHL deal is one-way or two-way.
Thanks for the clarification. So a prospect only remains the property of an NHL organization if he's under one of the term limits (like playing in college or juniors), goes to Europe, or is on an actual NHL contract?

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06-29-2014, 01:12 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Maybe there is something the HF Gravel hype machine has over looked, he isn't as good a prospect as they think. Maybe DL and co don't think he is worth an NHL deal and are betting the rest of the NHL feels the same?
It's quite obvious that's the case. You don't get signed to an AHL deal that exposes you to other NHL teams if the Kings feel he's a can't miss prospect.

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06-29-2014, 01:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
Thanks for the clarification. So a prospect only remains the property of an NHL organization if he's under one of the term limits (like playing in college or juniors), goes to Europe, or is on an actual NHL contract?
Hmm, based on the question here I am assuming you are talking unsigned prospects? In that case going to Europe does not matter. If Gravel were to have signed in Europe he would not remain property of the Kings. When you draft a player you have them for the length dictated in the CBA (2 years for players out of junior, 4 years for out of Europe, until August 15th after senior year with an out clause after 4 years for college players). If they are not signed to the NHL team by that time they either go back in draft or are UFA.

Holloway is different since he was signed by Kings then left as an RFA. Which is completely different rules from unsigned prospect.

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06-29-2014, 01:31 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Hmm, based on the question here I am assuming you are talking unsigned prospects? In that case going to Europe does not matter. If Gravel were to have signed in Europe he would not remain property of the Kings. When you draft a player you have them for the length dictated in the CBA (2 years for players out of junior, 4 years for out of Europe, until August 15th after senior year with an out clause after 4 years for college players). If they are not signed to the NHL team by that time they either go back in draft or are UFA.

Holloway is different since he was signed by Kings then left as an RFA. Which is completely different rules from unsigned prospect.
Oh, I see. Yeah, Holloway was throwing me off a bit there. Thanks for breaking it down.

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06-29-2014, 03:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Don't even need to. Every AHL only contract is also null and void the second an NHL deal. An AHL team offers zero protections against other NHL teams. There's no conflict for another NHL team like you say. Niederberger is the same, he's an NHL UFA that could have signed with any other NHL team at any time last year and he's AHL contract would not have been worth the paper it's printed on. Doesn't matter at all about if the NHL deal is one-way or two-way.
Dude, you need to post more. I really enjoy reading your posts.

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06-30-2014, 04:01 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Don't even need to. Every AHL only contract is also null and void the second an NHL deal. An AHL team offers zero protections against other NHL teams. There's no conflict for another NHL team like you say. Niederberger is the same, he's an NHL UFA that could have signed with any other NHL team at any time last year and he's AHL contract would not have been worth the paper it's printed on. Doesn't matter at all about if the NHL deal is one-way or two-way.
Yup. That was the case with Scott Parse when he came out of college. He signed an ATO with the Grand Rapid Griffins, Detroit's AHL affiliate, then later signed a NHL contract with the Kings and joined Manchester.

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06-30-2014, 04:36 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Gentle Ben Kenobi View Post
Gravel sings

Sadly, it is easier to get Senator Gavel to sing, than get draftee Gravel to sign.
I would think it would be the other way around. Maybe Senator Gravel's voice coach
can get involved in coaching Draftee Gravel to sign.

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06-30-2014, 06:41 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
Yup. That was the case with Scott Parse when he came out of college. He signed an ATO with the Grand Rapid Griffins, Detroit's AHL affiliate, then later signed a NHL contract with the Kings and joined Manchester.
True. An even better example would be Rem Murray. In 2005-06 he was signed by the Houston Aeros (Minnesota Wild's affliate at the time) on an AHL contract. He had played 54 games already when in February (or around there) Edmonton ran into some injury trouble and just signed him for depth down the stretch (he ended up playing 9 regular games and 24 playoff games for the Oilers that year).

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08-16-2014, 05:48 PM
  #114
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Bump, any updates or is he goneburger?

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08-16-2014, 05:52 PM
  #115
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Bump, any updates or is he goneburger?

He is not Kings property anymore and is free to sign with any team.

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08-16-2014, 06:38 PM
  #116
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Given his defensive acumen this is a very interesting move. However, with the acquisition of McNabb, the progress of Muzzin, and the draft selection of McKeown, I don't think the Kings see him as a part of their "Core" prospect group anymore.

They have invested a lot more in Forbort then they have in Gravel and they are looking far too similar to justify having both of them.

Something had to give.

Dug around a little and I also know that they wanted him to sign last season and were a little upset he decided to head back to college. Felt he had very little left to prove in college and the opening on the blue line was there last year in Manchester. Not so much this year with Ebert, Leslie, and MacDermid potentially coming up, and Colin Miller and Forbort getting their rookie years out of the way. Not to mention the emergence of Vinny LoVerde and Jeff Schultz who became big parts of that backend out of nowhere really. Opportunities that Gravel could have seized.

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08-17-2014, 08:09 AM
  #117
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Given his defensive acumen this is a very interesting move. However, with the acquisition of McNabb, the progress of Muzzin, and the draft selection of McKeown, I don't think the Kings see him as a part of their "Core" prospect group anymore.

They have invested a lot more in Forbort then they have in Gravel and they are looking far too similar to justify having both of them.

Something had to give.

Dug around a little and I also know that they wanted him to sign last season and were a little upset he decided to head back to college. Felt he had very little left to prove in college and the opening on the blue line was there last year in Manchester. Not so much this year with Ebert, Leslie, and MacDermid potentially coming up, and Colin Miller and Forbort getting their rookie years out of the way. Not to mention the emergence of Vinny LoVerde and Jeff Schultz who became big parts of that backend out of nowhere really. Opportunities that Gravel could have seized.
Good post but than I still wonder why some over here thought he was so great.

Nobody can deny his decision to stay in college turned out to be pretty good too.

After all he is probably a very limited player.

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08-17-2014, 10:38 AM
  #118
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Gotta trust their decision in this I guess. Liked him as a prospect since he was drafted, kept hearing good things but if Gravel was a real asset he would have been signed, blueline logjam in Manchester or not. Unless he flat out refused, but I think we would have heard about that.

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08-17-2014, 11:35 AM
  #119
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If Gravel refused to sign last year that would explain somethings. I thought Forbort should have stayed in college and Gravel come out last year so I found it odd he went back. If LA wanted him to come out and he refused, they may have decided to just go in a different direction and now that there is a wave of rookie D-man coming into the system, someone was the odd man out.

Will be interesting to see how Gravel pans out with another organization. I suspect he's only going to get a training camp invite at first, then maybe earn a contract through that.

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08-17-2014, 01:50 PM
  #120
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All good points and plausible explanations above.

I still think this whole thing is fishy particularly with the Kings having Gravel sign an AHL contract with Manchester. What was the point other than possibly as a sign of "good faith" with regards to continue negotiating an ELC until UFA status was reached? If Gravel doesn't sign with another team are the Kings still going to have him play in Manchester, logjam and all, or play in Ontario?

I hope it doesn't turn out that there has been something all along that has kept the Kings from signing him that we don't know about. Or that he's been over rated from the start and the Kings don't want to admit it. Or his head swelled up and he thinks he should step right into the roster of the 2-times-in-3-years Stanley Cup champions.

At this point I think the Kings should just cut ties with Gravel altogether, unless he agrees to sing an ELC and do whatever they tell him to, no questions asked.

Also, sort of the same thing with Prokhorkins. Is he right now, or a year from now, good enough to step into the Kings roster and make an immediate high impact contribution? If not than when? Is it worth the resources (time, money, development), not to mention aggravation, to continue pursuing him?

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08-17-2014, 02:11 PM
  #121
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What this says to me is : the Kings don't feel he is NHL ready. They also want to keep him in the fold. He seems to agree. He signed with Manchester shows he knows he isn't NHL ready but wants to stay under the Kings and he know if he signs elsewhere he would still be in the NHL. They do this and it says a contract spot. To me it shows that the Kings are earning the respect and trust of players and agents

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08-17-2014, 02:18 PM
  #122
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What this says to me is : the Kings don't feel he is NHL ready. They also want to keep him in the fold. He seems to agree. He signed with Manchester shows he knows he isn't NHL ready but wants to stay under the Kings and he know if he signs elsewhere he would still be in the NHL. They do this and it says a contract spot. To me it shows that the Kings are earning the respect and trust of players and agents
He may or may not be nhl ready, who truly knows. He clearly isn't good enough to make our current roster.

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08-17-2014, 03:09 PM
  #123
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From what I've read on here we just lost a future Hall of Famer.

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08-17-2014, 03:47 PM
  #124
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From what I've read on here we just lost a future Hall of Famer.
It wouldn't be the first time. Billy Smith says hi.

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08-17-2014, 04:32 PM
  #125
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He may or may not be nhl ready, who truly knows. He clearly isn't good enough to make our current roster.
He really didn't even prove he was ready to be a defender on Manchester in the handful of games that he played in. I don't understand why so many people think this guy is a can't miss prospect. I'm all for giving the guy a chance, but at this point he is fairly low on the depth chart IMO.

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