HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Afinogenov

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-16-2004, 11:22 AM
  #26
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,081
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
What does +/- tell us about Campbell and Delmore? Alone, it doesn't tell us a damn thing. Delmore's +/- is +1, Kalinin's is 0. What the hell does that tell you?

When people talk about Afinogenov, people resort to his spirit or how he appears to work. I don't care how fast your legs move, only whether you blow by the defenseman. I don't care how willing you are able to go into the boards, how often does Max come up with the puck. Results is what counts here.
I only care if he puts pucks in the net and doesn't cost his team in their own zone. Right now he's doing it what they need him to do in both zones. End of story.

Chainshot is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 12:48 PM
  #27
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartG101
He's better defensively that you give him credit for, Lala. He backchecks pretty well, mainly because of his speed. He rarely makes defensive zone turnovers and is often able to skate the puck out of the zone. I dont put much weight into +/- but you can't completely disregard it either.
Afinogenov still turns the puck over in his own zone. He still tries to be way too cute with the puck. He's improved, but that's damning with faint praise.

I'll completely disregard +/- until Zhitnik doesn't have the second worst +/- on the Sabres. He has easily been our best defenseman.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 12:52 PM
  #28
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
Well if I were to make an analysis, Delmore plays a lot of PP time and against lesser foes than Kalinin, plus he has only played 27 games with light minutes. Kalinin on the other hand plays against the other teams top units and plays big minutes. On the Sabres a 0 rating while playing almost half the time is pretty impressive considering that overall we give up more than we score. I'm not saying that +/- is the stat the determines everything but as Bart said it cannot be ignored either. Satan +/- is indicative of the effort he has shown this season.
Delmore has a positive +/-, so PP time is irrelevant.

Granted, his +/- comes about from playing against lesser opponents. So why not look at that instead? +/- doesn't tell you anything. Other things tell you why +/- is misleading.

Buffalo has 148 GF and 149 GA. A 0 +/- is not impressive.

Zhitnik has the second worst +/- on the Sabres. Arguably, he's been our second best player. I would argue he's been our best player.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 01:00 PM
  #29
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
I only care if he puts pucks in the net and doesn't cost his team in their own zone. Right now he's doing it what they need him to do in both zones. End of story.
Afinogenov has 19 points in 49 games, and 16 points in 47 games, prior to the last two games.

What do mean by "right now?" He has 6 points in our last 16 games, including 3 points in the last 2. If you mean the last two, who cares? Two games doesn't mean anything. If you mean since our hot streak, that would be wrong.

Afinogenov is still very much a liability in his own zone.

Of some interest, Afinogenov is -1 in those last 16 games, when we've gone 10-4-2. He is +4 in those games where we went 16-22-3-1. Somebody explain that to me.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 02:40 PM
  #30
MLH
Registered User
 
MLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Afinogenov still turns the puck over in his own zone. He still tries to be way too cute with the puck. He's improved, but that's damning with faint praise.
Perhaps he still makes a turnover here or there but I haven't noticed him making any more than any other forward. I don't know what you have against him.

You can add another assist in todays game too.

MLH is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 03:04 PM
  #31
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Wow! An assist. Delmore got a goal today too. Does this mean that Delmore produces well offensively? Afinogenov's got 7:53 minutes of ice time thru 2 periods. Ruff gives ice time to players who play well that day.

Afinogenov is not good in his own zone. He's played 2 minutes killing penalties, where defensive position is at a premium. It isn't because Ruff is biased against young players. Bartovic averaged over 2 minutes a game killing penalties. Pyatt is one of our leading PKers. Connolly was killing penalties last year.

He still gets too cute with the puck. He's improved, but he's still below average.

He's not gritty, despite what people say on here. He loses most battles along the boards.

He's got blazing speed, but he doesn't use it effectively.

What do I have against him? Nothing. What do you have against the Sabres? I'm not the one overestimating what Afinogenov is.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 03:09 PM
  #32
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Current +/- (including today's game):

Delmore +2
Afinogenov +3
Campbell -1

Kalinin -1
Zhitnik -8

Sabres have 154 GF, 150 GA, so they score more as a team than they give up.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 03:28 PM
  #33
littleHossa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Drury's not on the scoreboard tonight, lay down with the Afinogenov beating and him *only* getting one point in this high scoring affair. You can either have Afinogenov on the third line who can be capable of hat tricks and other magic, or trade him for a talentless hack who's not capable of anything, yet consistent at it.

littleHossa is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 03:53 PM
  #34
MLH
Registered User
 
MLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Wow! An assist. Delmore got a goal today too. Does this mean that Delmore produces well offensively? Afinogenov's got 7:53 minutes of ice time thru 2 periods. Ruff gives ice time to players who play well that day.

Afinogenov is not good in his own zone. He's played 2 minutes killing penalties, where defensive position is at a premium. It isn't because Ruff is biased against young players. Bartovic averaged over 2 minutes a game killing penalties. Pyatt is one of our leading PKers. Connolly was killing penalties last year.

He still gets too cute with the puck. He's improved, but he's still below average.

He's not gritty, despite what people say on here. He loses most battles along the boards.

He's got blazing speed, but he doesn't use it effectively.

What do I have against him? Nothing. What do you have against the Sabres? I'm not the one overestimating what Afinogenov is.
Wow, did he not autograph a replica jersey for you? The reason he played so little today had nothing to do with how he was playing. It had to do with the Sabres taking 63 minutes in penalties. You pointed out that he wasn't a PKer so I'm not sure how that one floated over your head. Zhitnik had over 10 minutes of ice time on the PK alone today.

He's not to cute with the puck anymore, he's grittier than you give him credit for, and he does having blazing speed. I agree that he isn't much of a finisher.

I don't overestimate him, but it's pretty obvious that you're not being objective. All I've said that he merely better than "what you are giving him credit for".

MLH is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 07:45 PM
  #35
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleHossa
Drury's not on the scoreboard tonight, lay down with the Afinogenov beating and him *only* getting one point in this high scoring affair. You can either have Afinogenov on the third line who can be capable of hat tricks and other magic, or trade him for a talentless hack who's not capable of anything, yet consistent at it.
Who's comparing Drury to Afinogenov? But since you asked, Drury is more effective in every area of the game. Offensively, he's scored more and more consistently than Afinogenov. He's on pace for 50 points. Drury is better defensively. Drury is more effective in the physical part of the game. And Drury has leadership capabilities.

In terms of trade, how about a talentless hack like Kovalev?

Given some people's love affair with Afinogenov (hopefully this extends to other GMs), we could probably get a lot.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 07:51 PM
  #36
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,081
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Wow! An assist. Delmore got a goal today too. Does this mean that Delmore produces well offensively? Afinogenov's got 7:53 minutes of ice time thru 2 periods. Ruff gives ice time to players who play well that day.

Afinogenov is not good in his own zone. He's played 2 minutes killing penalties, where defensive position is at a premium. It isn't because Ruff is biased against young players. Bartovic averaged over 2 minutes a game killing penalties. Pyatt is one of our leading PKers. Connolly was killing penalties last year.

He still gets too cute with the puck. He's improved, but he's still below average.

He's not gritty, despite what people say on here. He loses most battles along the boards.

He's got blazing speed, but he doesn't use it effectively.

What do I have against him? Nothing. What do you have against the Sabres? I'm not the one overestimating what Afinogenov is.
Hmmmm... no one is making claims of anything in this thread. People have expressed opinions about what they see in his game, both for good an for ill. Some would rather see him here, others want him moved.

Chainshot is offline  
Old
02-16-2004, 08:03 PM
  #37
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Republic of Alberta
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartG101
Wow, did he not autograph a replica jersey for you? The reason he played so little today had nothing to do with how he was playing. It had to do with the Sabres taking 63 minutes in penalties. You pointed out that he wasn't a PKer so I'm not sure how that one floated over your head. Zhitnik had over 10 minutes of ice time on the PK alone today.

He's not to cute with the puck anymore, he's grittier than you give him credit for, and he does having blazing speed. I agree that he isn't much of a finisher.

I don't overestimate him, but it's pretty obvious that you're not being objective. All I've said that he merely better than "what you are giving him credit for".
I'm not being objective? There are roughly 200 forwards that have more points than Afinogenov this year. Supreme offensive talents that found their way thru waivers like Trevor Letowski have outscored Afinogenov this year. How much value do one dimensional third line wingers who are defensive liabilities have?

63 minutes in penalties? You should also note that I posted as of the end of the second period. The Sabres took 49 of those 63 minutes in the third period. But thanks for noting that Afinogenov IS one-dimensional, and won't get time killing penalties because he is horrific in his own end.

He is too cute with the puck.

If he's so gritty, why does he play so much of a perimeter game? If he is so gritty, why does he lose most battles along the boards? Gritty is Daniel Briere, because he goes where Afinogenov should: to the front of the net. If Afinogenov scores goals like he did against Toronto, I am very happy.

Sure, he has blazing speed, but he still hasn't learned to use it effectively. Taylor Pyatt's speed is better than Afinogenov's. Most people don't consider him as fast because he doesn't move his feet as fast. He gets from A to B faster, and that's what counts. And Pyatt will go to the net more than Afinogenov will, thus using his speed more effectively.

Afinogenov has gotten less cute with the puck, but he still is too cute with it. He no longer circles inside the opposition blue line anymore. He no longer gives up the puck on behind the back passes in his own zone. However, he does not make the simple pass out of the zone, and stickhandles too much where he should pass. He also has some difficulty just getting the puck out along the boards.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.