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Isbister needs to stay!

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Old
04-02-2007, 09:03 AM
  #26
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Orr will be there. He clicks with Betts and Holy very well. He is useful w/o fighting. It is not a good time to break up this line.
Agree.

If Renney thinks this line is good enough to start 6 out of the last 10 games (and it has been) then it shoudnt be toyed with.

It completely shut down Crosby one night also.

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Old
04-02-2007, 10:00 AM
  #27
Larry Melnyk
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Gotta remember, the POs are a completley different game...Speed, desire, hitting smarts and DEFENSE..Nothing like the crap (though we did it well) we played the last two nights against defensive sieves....That's what Renney has to base his decision on...Untill Hossa comes back...Isbister plays plain and simple...Personally, I see no need whatsoever for a Colton Orr in a PO game and would easily play Hollweg, but I think Holly's ship has sailed ....

As far as what to do when a healthy Hossa comes back, I think, despite how they matched up against Crosby's line, you will see BOTH Holly and Orr sitting with Isbister on the 4th line with Betts and Orts (Orts playing the Holly forechecking role and Isbister playing the lumbering/cruisning Orr role)..But all depends on the opponent and the status of the series...If the team looks down, maybe an energy player like Hollweg gets inserted to run around...

And then thre are injuries...

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04-02-2007, 10:14 AM
  #28
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Larry...

you hit the nail on the head, or at least a nail on a head. The playoffs should be a bit faster. Do you have Hollweg's speed out there or Orr's speed out there? I think you have Hollweg's out there. The scoring is about the same. Orr can be a better checker, but Hollweg's a more frequent checker. Orr's size can be beneficial, but with the increased pace of the playoffs, will he ever get to use it?

I think that in the end, the fourth line will be lucky to see 5 minutes in a playoff game. Jagr will be 22-24. Ditto Shanny and Nylander and Avery will increase as will Cullen. I could be wrong, but I think Renney will ride his horses again.

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04-02-2007, 10:24 AM
  #29
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The thing with Holly is this: He was our agitator. Even if he is a fourth line guy who fights and grinds, you need a guy like that on your team. We now have brought in one of the best agitators in the game to take a spot on the second line and he is scoring, skating, doing everything we could possibly hope for and I don't expect to see him slow down at any time in the near future. Avery really loves being in MSG and in Ranger blue, you can just tell.

Guess what that means? Hollweg is expendable, not only that, he is taking a roster spot we do not want him to remain in, because we already have our agitator. In the off season, I would be amazed not to see him get the Dominic Moore treatment. I love Holly and think he can be a great forechecking and agitating force for our team in the playoffs this year, but I doubt we see him in Ranger Blue after that point.

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04-02-2007, 10:24 AM
  #30
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
you hit the nail on the head, or at least a nail on a head. The playoffs should be a bit faster. Do you have Hollweg's speed out there or Orr's speed out there? I think you have Hollweg's out there. The scoring is about the same. Orr can be a better checker, but Hollweg's a more frequent checker. Orr's size can be beneficial, but with the increased pace of the playoffs, will he ever get to use it?

I think that in the end, the fourth line will be lucky to see 5 minutes in a playoff game. Jagr will be 22-24. Ditto Shanny and Nylander and Avery will increase as will Cullen. I could be wrong, but I think Renney will ride his horses again.
I think we are in total agreement, except for the part about Orr poosibly being a better checker! Does he check? But seriously, Orts and Isbister with Betts could be as good or better as a 4th line....

A problem with such a configuration (and Orts on the 4th line) might be is that can the munchkins of the 3rd line -at least two of Prucha, Cullen, Callahan--stand up to the wear and tear of POs?..AND we really would not have a checking line, which could really hurt us in the POs...

And I also think back to the PO disaster last year where Holly-Betts-Orts was the only good thing we had going and they played very good PO hockey...

But it is good to have some options..we will see..

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04-02-2007, 10:24 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Orr and Hollweg. Orr's value goes down in the playoffs, while Hollweg's a candidate for the Dom Moore treatment this off-season.
I would never sit Hollweg, especially in the Playoffs.

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04-02-2007, 10:25 AM
  #32
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Whatever the case I like the fact that we're going to be entering the playoffs on a high note with all our players back or close though I haven't heard much on Rachunek I think Pck has been covering for him just as well or better. Agree on Orr sitting because of his speed issue. We have more grit, more secondary scoring and at times lately we've have a really tight D. I don't think this is a 4 and out team like last year. I can even see this team making noise if it can get past the first round which looks right now very possible. Playing Isbister on the 4th line might be a good move--more speed and mobility, much better skillset than Orr and a little more size and you can throw him into pk or pwp situations if you have to. This guy is not always consistent but he has 100 regular season NHL goals. He's not a complete waste and if a 4th line could pop in a goal or two in the postseason that's a big bonus.

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04-02-2007, 10:33 AM
  #33
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I don't even need to think about Isbister's role "next year". That is of no-never-mind.

What matters is that he could play a crucial role in the playoffs: giving room to Nylander and Jags to score big goals.

It seems to me that playoff runs have a lot to do with sticking with hot players that rise to the occasion, be it goalies or otherwise. His role is not to score, but to work the corners down low and pull attention away from the guys who can score.

He may prove to be a very important player in this year's playoff effort. That's my hunch. We can come back to this in June..........?

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Old
04-02-2007, 10:48 AM
  #34
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hollweg is terrible but orr probably sits come playoff time as does isbister when hossa comes back. hossa is so much better on that first line than isbister its not even funny. brad is doing a great job filling in but come on.

hossa nylander jagr
avery straka shanny
prucha cullen callahan
hollweg betts orty
isbister
orr

if we start getting pushed around then yah you put orr in its different though come playoffs you can't just get away with anything in game 1 or 2 because you'll then have to answer for it in game 3 or 4. alot less need for the goon type player.

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Old
04-02-2007, 10:50 AM
  #35
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinNJ View Post
I don't even need to think about Isbister's role "next year". That is of no-never-mind.

What matters is that he could play a crucial role in the playoffs: giving room to Nylander and Jags to score big goals.

It seems to me that playoff runs have a lot to do with sticking with hot players that rise to the occasion, be it goalies or otherwise. His role is not to score, but to work the corners down low and pull attention away from the guys who can score.

He may prove to be a very important player in this year's playoff effort. That's my hunch. We can come back to this in June..........?
I agree, Brad Isbaister meet John Druce..

And why i wanted Isbister back in the line-up, the team in its' current form seems to work better with him on the ice... Plus, I think Renney likes Isbister and has even talked about him as a 4th liner (if Hossa comes back)..I think he plays thru most of the POs...

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Old
04-02-2007, 12:52 PM
  #36
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Hossa - Nylander - Jagr
Avery - Straka - Shanahan
Prucha - Cullen - Callahan
Hollweg - Betts - Ortmeyer

Orr and Issy sit.

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Old
04-02-2007, 01:06 PM
  #37
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Larry...

that's why I said Orr 'can be'. When he actually has a guy lined up and gets some speed going, he hits with more force than Hollweg - problem has been that getting a guy lined up and getting the steam going forward has been the issue. He's gotten better at it of late, but still, you're not going to see him hit with the frequency and accuracy of Hollweg, which is simply a speed issue.

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04-02-2007, 01:44 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
in disagreement on Isbister with the rest of the board. Jagr's playing hard and skating again - that's why the line's doing well. Jagr and others say Isbister creates room for them, but it's Jagr still creating room for Isbister. On Nylander's goal yesterday much was made of Isbister using his body, etc...little was made of the fact that (I believe at least) it was Boyd Devereaux who was covering Isbister, and not the defenseman who was chasing him and that Boyd made little contact, if any, with Isbister. Even with Nylander coming around the defensemen stayed put and seemed to be more concerned with Jagr than anyone else, which opened up the ice for both Isbister and Nylander.

Remember the success Jagr had with Prucha, a player who doesn't provide that dimension that Ibister brings? If Jagr's healthy and motivated, you can put a player with most any kind of style; grit, skill, etc. on his line and be successful. I don't break up this line immediately if Jagr's successful on it, but I don't start calling for Isbister to be signed next season either. He still has about 5 points in 15 games, one goal I believe; this is for a top liner.
I think YOU hit the nail on the head here, Fletch. The sucsess of Jagr and the line is often categorized by who is playing on the left wing, but in reality, I think the correlation is much stronger between his health, confidence, and play. The point about PRucha is a great example.

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Old
04-02-2007, 08:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Thor God of Thunder View Post
Hollweg has the hustle and the heart, but it's not really enough to help elevate the team. Lately I've been thinking that he really just doesn't do anything. I like the guy, I really do, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the off-season.
Things like this just boggle my mind. He can't elevate the team? From where? The 4th line? How many 4th liners elevate their team? Just what is it that you are looking for from a 4th liner? He is top-10 in the league in hits, despite playing the least amount of minutes. He does his job. As a matter of fact, he perfects the role of a 4th line role player. What more are you looking fo? There are reasons why 15 goal scorers do not play on the 4th line. They play on the 3rd line. Again, when taking about context, what more can one possibly ask from a 4th line, energy role player?

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04-02-2007, 08:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Isbister plays plain and simple...Personally, I see no need whatsoever for a Colton Orr in a PO game and would easily play Hollweg, but I think Holly's ship has sailed ....
When talking about 4th liners, where has his ship sailed to? Do you really think that Isbister is going to look that nice, playing next to Betts & Ortmeyer, as opposed to Nylander & Jagr? Isbister does not bring to the 4th line the necessary ingridients to be a good 4th line role player.

I do not mean you Larry, with this, but for years people have complained that the Rangers do not have the necessary role players on their bottom-2 lines. Not enough grit. Not enough willingness to bring energy and get their nose dirty on every shift. Now, Brad Isbister is a necessary component to Jagr? Up until this year, the consensus was that Jagr could play with anyone and score points. Now Isbister gets praise for playing with players who are beyond him. Heck, Jeff Toms looked good for stretches when Ron Low played him with Lindros, and got lambasted on these boards.

If you are going to play 6-7 minutes on the 4th line, would you rather have Isbister, who will accomplish nothing in such a role, or a kid who will go out and bang everything in sight and serve a purpose?


Last edited by True Blue: 04-02-2007 at 08:24 PM.
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Old
04-02-2007, 08:15 PM
  #41
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Jagr has defnitely stepped up his game, and so has Nylander.

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04-02-2007, 09:12 PM
  #42
CM Lundqvist
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I agree, Isbister sits when Hossa comes back.

Callahan has played well, and should stay. He's score more goals than Isbister, and Orr combined in far less games than they've played.

Hollweg can play with some intensity, and can do more than Orr, and is the perfect kind of 4th liner. He's the guy that we're going to need down the stretch.

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Old
04-03-2007, 12:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by schmieder44 View Post
I agree once Hossa returns Isbister sits. Either that or he moves to the 4th line as more of a checking role in place of Orr for the playoffs. Orr just doesnt skate well enough to be a major disruption on the forecheck. Playoffs he should sit for most games.
You sit Isbister. As good as he's been when Hossa returns...out goes Izzy.

Hossa-Nylander-Jagr
Avery-Straka-Shanahan
Prucha-Cullen-Ortmeyer
Callahan-Betts-Orr/Hollweg

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04-03-2007, 01:04 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
You sit Isbister. As good as he's been when Hossa returns...out goes Izzy.

Hossa-Nylander-Jagr
Avery-Straka-Shanahan
Prucha-Cullen-Ortmeyer
Callahan-Betts-Orr/Hollweg
Yep, and I believe that's what will happen, although I don't think you'll see Callahan on the 4th line...atleast I hope not. He's not very useful there.

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04-03-2007, 07:23 AM
  #45
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If everyone's in agreement that playoff hockey is certainly different, and that speed and hitting picks up greatly...then why can't we assume our guy will too? To me, a guy like Isbister will look to give crushing hits as well as grind along the boards with his big body like he's doing now.

I sit Orr, he's too much of a liability, I can't take his penalties, and he's undisciplined with his shifts. I have no idea what planet Renney was on when he said Orr manages his shifts well. He's just too damn slow.

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04-03-2007, 08:33 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I agree, Brad Isbaister meet John Druce..

And why i wanted Isbister back in the line-up, the team in its' current form seems to work better with him on the ice... Plus, I think Renney likes Isbister and has even talked about him as a 4th liner (if Hossa comes back)..I think he plays thru most of the POs...
Yeah, I think both Orr and Hollweg could eventually be the ones sitting, although, it appears Hossa might not be ready for the start of the POs. Hollweg sits for now, but, I could see the lineup eventually being as follows:

Hossa/Nylander/Jagr
Avery/Straka/Shanahan
Prucha/Cullen/Callahan
Isbister/Betts/Ortmeyer

I'm not exactly how the D pairings will look, but, figure, until Rachunek gets back, the lineup will be Tyutin, Mara, Girardi, Rozsival, Pock and Malik.

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04-03-2007, 09:13 AM
  #47
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yeah, I think both Orr and Hollweg could eventually be the ones sitting, although, it appears Hossa might not be ready for the start of the POs. Hollweg sits for now, but, I could see the lineup eventually being as follows:

Hossa/Nylander/Jagr
Avery/Straka/Shanahan
Prucha/Cullen/Callahan
Isbister/Betts/Ortmeyer

I'm not exactly how the D pairings will look, but, figure, until Rachunek gets back, the lineup will be Tyutin, Mara, Girardi, Rozsival, Pock and Malik.
Again, I think it's totally assinine to dress Orr in a PO game and really think, like last year, the speed and forechecking of Hollweg (Orr has neither) could help this team...But that's the line-up I can see also with a healthy Hossa....

My preferences aside, I'm sure Orr will play instead of Hollweg because Renney will need him to "neutralize Cam "two-minutes-a-night" Janssens or Georges "don't kick a sleeping dog" Laraque or the terrifying Eric Bolton..

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04-03-2007, 09:17 AM
  #48
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
When talking about 4th liners, where has his ship sailed to? Do you really think that Isbister is going to look that nice, playing next to Betts & Ortmeyer, as opposed to Nylander & Jagr? Isbister does not bring to the 4th line the necessary ingridients to be a good 4th line role player.

I do not mean you Larry, with this, but for years people have complained that the Rangers do not have the necessary role players on their bottom-2 lines. Not enough grit. Not enough willingness to bring energy and get their nose dirty on every shift. Now, Brad Isbister is a necessary component to Jagr? Up until this year, the consensus was that Jagr could play with anyone and score points. Now Isbister gets praise for playing with players who are beyond him. Heck, Jeff Toms looked good for stretches when Ron Low played him with Lindros, and got lambasted on these boards.

If you are going to play 6-7 minutes on the 4th line, would you rather have Isbister, who will accomplish nothing in such a role, or a kid who will go out and bang everything in sight and serve a purpose?
Look TB, I'm a huge Hollweg fan and think his hitting, energy and forechecking belongs on the 4th line...But, he has his minuses...And, Brad Isbister has been playing good hockey and his board game has been a good help to the team..I also truly think he could provide a very good option (with a bit more scoring touch) on the 4th line if REnney decides to go that way....And even if he is only good for a stretch, you ride him for that stretch, then take him out...No biggie..

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04-03-2007, 09:22 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
At least untill Hossa can retake his place on Jagrs opposite wing. Isibi adds a much needed dimension to both that line and this team. He's tough and he hustles.
I couldn't agree more. Since he has been on that line both Jagr and Nylander have been scoring more. He forechecks well and creates opportunities for them. As long as Jagr and Nylander stay hot, and we continue to win they should keep Isbister where he is.

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04-03-2007, 09:24 AM
  #50
Fletch
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Larry...

Isbister has 1 goal in 16 games while playing a fair amount with Jagr. Not sure how much scoring one would expect if he was playing with Betts on a fourth line. I do hear what you're saying - Isbister is a better grinder than Hollweg, I believe, as a result of his better puckhandling ability, and perhaps even his size, but it all depends on what you want from your fourth line. Do you want to try to wear teams down with a down low cycle, or do you want to try to wear them down with bodychecks, which could also help jumpstart a team. Hollweg brings a lot more energy and hitting than Isbister and it all depends on the makeup you want for those five minutes per game (assuming Hossa's back and playing with Jagr and Callahan isn't sent down).

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