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Jokerit Helsinki 2014/2015 season talk

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06-26-2014, 02:35 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Kennel View Post
Since 1967 actually (and 1947 if you count Vesa). There was about 3 years of stability in the 90s but it was still pretty wild.
Kekäläinen gave hope of stability but then it all went away...

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06-29-2014, 02:30 AM
  #977
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KHL is a russian league. I don't understand why Jokerit joined russian league I want Jokerit back to SM Liiga not to russia!!! hopefully soon

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06-29-2014, 12:24 PM
  #978
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KHL is a russian league. I don't understand why Jokerit joined russian league I want Jokerit back to SM Liiga not to russia!!! hopefully soon
There are a lot of non-Russian teams in this league. Hence it is not completely Russian.

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06-29-2014, 01:26 PM
  #979
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There are a lot of non-Russian teams in this league. Hence it is not completely Russian.
According just about every Russian poster here, it is a Russian league. All the decisions are made in Moscow as well so it is essentially a Russian league in that aspect as well.

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06-29-2014, 01:42 PM
  #980
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Harkimo should have just cut the budget to €2 million or even less if his financial situation was bad enough that he couldn't supply Jokerit with €3.5 million payroll. But instead he took the easy route... and sold us in the same boat. with these figures i mean player salaries not overall budget obviously. we haven t won the ****ing title for 12 years and its going to continue cos we have very slim chance of winning anything in russia. also a very uncertain league and so forth.

well i guess it wont come back soon. sad to lose my team. harkimo should get sacked immediately and sell the whole club to russia anyway whats the point only owning 51% even thats material cos he isnt charge anymore. just my 2 cents.

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06-29-2014, 03:19 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
According just about every Russian poster here, it is a Russian league. All the decisions are made in Moscow as well so it is essentially a Russian league in that aspect as well.
Between 1946 & 1967 four of six NHL teams were based in the US however the NHL's head office was located in Montreal. Did that make the NHL a Canadian controlled entity? Obviously no, not at all. The league was essentially controlled by the Norris family, owners of Detroit & Chicago, major shareholders of Madison Square Gardens & by rote the NY Rangers, and, they'd lent money to the Bruins to keep them afloat ergo Boston as well beholden to Norris interests..... post 1967 Expansion with the addition of 6 additional US teams, Clarence Campbells retirement, the appointment of former Norris Council with Detroit John Ziegler as new NHL President & the relocation of NHL Head Office to New York, does that mean formally the NHL & hockey is now effectively controlled by American interests? Of course. Does it matter? No. They merely control the top echelon, the best league, but they dont control hockey the game be it Canada, Sweden, Finland, Russia or anywhere else. Its strictly a business. These clubs, the league & its owners, their not visionaries, stewards of the game.

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Originally Posted by hoc View Post
Harkimo should have just cut the budget to €2 million or even less if his financial situation was bad enough that he couldn't supply Jokerit with €3.5 million payroll. But instead he took the easy route... and sold us in the same boat. with these figures i mean player salaries not overall budget obviously. we haven t won the ****ing title for 12 years and its going to continue cos we have very slim chance of winning anything in russia. also a very uncertain league and so forth.
Ya well see youve written them off before giving it a chance. How do you know Jokerit wont take the KHL by storm & do some serious damage, kick some butt? Your assuming the club will now & henceforth be little more than Puppets to what you perceive as being over~arching megalomaniac Russian Oligarch's who control the KHL from Moscow. Thats not gunna fly. Either Jokerit (and elsewhere not located in Russia) plays on an even surface or they will implode because fans wont stand for it. They wont show up if theres even the slightest hint that the club is merely a decorative feather in the KHL's cap, who have no chance of winning a league championship, that the whole set~up is rigged. But lets say they instead come out flying, and your entertained by the product & quality of play. It's worth the shot in my opinion. Keep an open mind, see how things pan out.... But sure, approach with caution. Look at how the NHL handicapped Expansion Teams & the in-bound WHA teams in 79/80. Hopefully the powers that be, such as they are within the KHL dont make the same mistakes. If they do, Jokerits' history & it'll be a cold day in Hell before that leagues ever welcomed back into Finland.

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Old
06-29-2014, 10:24 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Between 1946 & 1967 four of six NHL teams were based in the US however the NHL's head office was located in Montreal. Did that make the NHL a Canadian controlled entity? Obviously no, not at all. The league was essentially controlled by the Norris family, owners of Detroit & Chicago, major shareholders of Madison Square Gardens & by rote the NY Rangers, and, they'd lent money to the Bruins to keep them afloat ergo Boston as well beholden to Norris interests..... post 1967 Expansion with the addition of 6 additional US teams, Clarence Campbells retirement, the appointment of former Norris Council with Detroit John Ziegler as new NHL President & the relocation of NHL Head Office to New York, does that mean formally the NHL & hockey is now effectively controlled by American interests? Of course. Does it matter? No. They merely control the top echelon, the best league, but they dont control hockey the game be it Canada, Sweden, Finland, Russia or anywhere else. Its strictly a business. These clubs, the league & its owners, their not visionaries, stewards of the game.
It's wrong to compare the NHL and KHL as the KHL originated from the RSL.

Quote:
Ya well see youve written them off before giving it a chance. How do you know Jokerit wont take the KHL by storm & do some serious damage, kick some butt? Your assuming the club will now & henceforth be little more than Puppets to what you perceive as being over~arching megalomaniac Russian Oligarch's who control the KHL from Moscow. Thats not gunna fly. Either Jokerit (and elsewhere not located in Russia) plays on an even surface or they will implode because fans wont stand for it. They wont show up if theres even the slightest hint that the club is merely a decorative feather in the KHL's cap, who have no chance of winning a league championship, that the whole set~up is rigged. But lets say they instead come out flying, and your entertained by the product & quality of play. It's worth the shot in my opinion. Keep an open mind, see how things pan out.... But sure, approach with caution. Look at how the NHL handicapped Expansion Teams & the in-bound WHA teams in 79/80. Hopefully the powers that be, such as they are within the KHL dont make the same mistakes. If they do, Jokerits' history & it'll be a cold day in Hell before that leagues ever welcomed back into Finland.
Because as a Jokerit fan he knows failure is heavily rooted in the team now. Let's put it this way, had we more time/interest at out disposal, you might have seen Jokerit fans writing the kind of posts Stray Wasp does on Newcastle United's games at the Soccer section.


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Old
06-30-2014, 11:31 AM
  #983
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KHL visited Hartwall Arena and liked what they saw...only some minor things have to be done to fill the KHL rules.

But can someone translate the last part better than internet translators...KHL tv and something about HD?

http://www.khl.ru/news/2014/06/30/225082.html

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06-30-2014, 12:10 PM
  #984
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all games will be in HD

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06-30-2014, 12:47 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
all games will be in HD
I dont know how some team's manage to stream non-hd content. I could do better with my galaxy S5 and laptop connected to arenas network. The professional equipment can't cost many thousand € anymore.

I remember KalPa's last game being non HD last season They probably sold even their cameras when tanking

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06-30-2014, 01:43 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It's wrong to compare the NHL and KHL as the KHL originated from the RSL.
Ya, and?........ the NHL morphed from & was essentially the NHA; the NHA morphed from & was essentially a combination of the OPHL, Federal Hockey League & others. The point stands Jussi. There are parallels & similar examples to the early days (and to some extent analogous to the WHA, WCHL & PCHA) of the development & growth of top tier professional hockey in North America to the KHL & its ambitions in becoming the best professional league throughout Europe, Scandinavia & Russia. Its not "wrong to compare them" at all.

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06-30-2014, 01:47 PM
  #987
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Ya, and?........ the NHL morphed from & was essentially the NHA; the NHA morphed from & was essentially a combination of the OPHL, Federal Hockey League & others. The point stands Jussi. There are parallels & similar examples to the early days (and to some extent analogous to the WHA, WCHL & PCHA) of the development & growth of top tier professional hockey in North America to the KHL & its ambitions in becoming the best professional league throughout Europe, Scandinavia & Russia. Its not "wrong to compare them" at all.
NHL was never intended to be a national league for one country. KHL's roots have always been from a league for Russian teams. So yes, it is wrong to compare them.

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Old
06-30-2014, 02:23 PM
  #988
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Niklas Olausson won't be Jokerit's last center. He signed a contract with Biel, NLA.

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Old
06-30-2014, 03:25 PM
  #989
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NHL was never intended to be a national league for one country. KHL's roots have always been from a league for Russian teams. So yes, it is wrong to compare them.
Oh? Seems your unaware of the history of the professional game in North America Jussi. The NHA which became the NHL in 1917 (purely for legal reasons to get rid of an unwanted owner in Toronto) & its predecessors were in fact entirely Canadian until 1924 when the Boston Bruins were added. Like the KHL the NHL decided to broaden its horizons through Expansion into the Unites States. No different than the KHL wanting to do the same into former Soviet States, Finland & elsewhere. I dont have any problem with this whatsoever, wish them the best of luck, would love to see it succeed & give the NHL a serious run for its money as the planets premier professional hockey league.... The NHL's roots were planted in Canada just as the KHL's are planted in Russia yet clearly they just like the NHL of nearly 100yrs ago have far greater ambitions. Whats more, not unlike the presentments & long simmering grudges people in Scandinavia & elsewhere have with Russia, the same existed in Canada towards the US (indeed, a great deal of mistrust) and that still exist in some circles even today north of their shared Border. There are also parallels to the KHL's expansionism pursuant to the amalgamations of several pro teams & or entire leagues in Canada & the US throughout the 20th & early 21st Centuries along with the development of top tier amateur & developmental leagues, along with the boom in building of facilities.

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06-30-2014, 03:44 PM
  #990
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Oh? Seems your unaware of the history of the professional game in North America Jussi.
I'm more than aware of the origins of the NHL. Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti ran a series of stories on the origins of the NHL. The big difference is that it's origins were local leagues of just about anywhere where they could play hockey with a decent setting. It wasn't A Canadian championship league operating under Hockey Canada. KHL's origins comes from a league operating under Russian federation and still they cannot operate fully without approval from the federation. NHL has never had that link or issue.

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06-30-2014, 04:25 PM
  #991
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I'm more than aware of the origins of the NHL. Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti ran a series of stories on the origins of the NHL. The big difference is that it's origins were local leagues of just about anywhere where they could play hockey with a decent setting. It wasn't A Canadian championship league operating under Hockey Canada. KHL's origins comes from a league operating under Russian federation and still they cannot operate fully without approval from the federation. NHL has never had that link or issue.
Are you sure KHL is actually federational league? Even Finnish League is not. Of course Finland affects in all the possible ways. Anyway the KHL must come from somewhere. If it came from Finland, it would have alot of affect from here. Somebody had to start the league. Europe didin't get anything done good before KHL. Now they are desperately putting up CHL (which doesn't really differ so much from earlier failed projects if we are honest), which they do only because KHL is there and they're afraid.

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06-30-2014, 05:24 PM
  #992
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Are you sure KHL is actually federational league? Even Finnish League is not. Of course Finland affects in all the possible ways. Anyway the KHL must come from somewhere. If it came from Finland, it would have alot of affect from here. Somebody had to start the league. Europe didin't get anything done good before KHL. Now they are desperately putting up CHL (which doesn't really differ so much from earlier failed projects if we are honest), which they do only because KHL is there and they're afraid.
That's not what I'm saying. But they cannot make big decisions without the approval of the Russian hockey federation. Alce has explained it numerous times before. The two entities are legally bound.

CHL is also majorly different from the previous versions in that clubs are the ones in charge of creating it and also baring the financial burden.

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06-30-2014, 05:52 PM
  #993
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I'm more than aware of the origins of the NHL. Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti ran a series of stories on the origins of the NHL. The big difference is that it's origins were local leagues of just about anywhere where they could play hockey with a decent setting. It wasn't A Canadian championship league operating under Hockey Canada. KHL's origins comes from a league operating under Russian federation and still they cannot operate fully without approval from the federation. NHL has never had that link or issue.
Yes it was Jussi. Lord Stanley of Preston donated the Cup that bears his name at the the instigation of his sons who were hockey enthusiasts. The Stanley Cup was to be awarded to the best team "in the Dominion of Canada". He didnt specify "amateur only" or "Canadian based teams need only challenge for the Cup" but thats what he meant, that was the original intention. However, the amateur teams began employing Ringers, then fully professional players but under the guise of being amateurs. By the time the NHA was created which became the NHL of course the Stanley Cup had been hijacked by the professionals leagues & teams of which there were many, then eventually through consolidation by the NHA & the NHL. All of this was facilitated by the Canadian Amateur Athletic Federation and included the allowance of American based teams to Challenge for the Stanley Cup.

I understand your point of course however the NHA/NHL was "governed" by the CAAA with respect to the Rules & Regulations & the Awarding of the Stanley Cup in its formative years just as the KHL retains close links to the Russian Hockey Federation in its formative years as well. In other words, like the NHA/NHL of 100yrs ago, the KHL is in its adolescence & growing, re-defining & re-shaping itself, a work in progress & challenged on many fronts. Its important that the Russian clubs in the KHL retain their connections to the Russian Hockey Federation, supporting the sports development at the grass roots level in order to continue a steady supply of talent just as it would be important for Jokerit moving forward as members of the KHL (and the other clubs not located in Russia) to support amateur & elite Jr in Finland.

Until 1963 the NHL did sponsor Junior Clubs across Canada (along with Intermediate & Senior) all playing under governing sports bodies & federations not controlled by the NHL. Sometimes the member clubs sponsored entire leagues. This was all eliminated in 63 with the introduction of the Universal Draft, and by roughly 1969/70, all of the formerly NHL sponsored teams cut adrift entirely. There were pluses & minuses to this system of Sponsorship, as it was abused by the NHL & its clubs, whereby players had no freedom of movement, signing what were called 'C Forms' which for all practical purposes resulted in indentured servitude for the player to the NHL club that sponsored them through elite amateur & Junior. Minor pro a whole other matter. Clearly, the KHL hasnt quite worked through the best system with Russian Hockey Federation let alone its member clubs located elsewhere and again, very similar to what the NHL was going through & faced with in the 60's combining elements of Expansion goals further complicating matters. There are all kinds of parallels, similar situations, a lot of commonalities between the history of the growth of the NHA/NHL & the KHL today. Many of the same problems as faced a generation & generations ago in Canada & the US as those being faced by the KHL.

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07-02-2014, 06:58 PM
  #994
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I love this. It is exactly why the league changed it's name to the Kontinental Hockey League.

I would love to see the KHL expand into a United European Hockey league. Maybe in a CHL format where you have 2 or 3 leagues because of the area it would have to cover.

But who know maybe in 10-15 years we can have some sort of Club World Cup in the summer, between the NHL and KHL.

It would be fun to see Jokerit, Modo, and CSKA in the same league, but this is from a North American perspective I have a feeling SEL, SM-Liiga and DEL fans have other opinions.


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07-02-2014, 08:55 PM
  #995
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But who know maybe in 10-15 years we can have some sort of Club World Cup in the summer, between the NHL and KHL.
I doubt we'll ever see that. NHL is scared of losing its "monopole" by loosing games to KHL (as we saw a few years ago).

BTW it's nice to see a Canadian showing interest in the KHL instead of calling it a bush league and comparing it to AHL...

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07-02-2014, 11:52 PM
  #996
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I doubt we'll ever see that. NHL is scared of losing its "monopole" by loosing games to KHL (as we saw a few years ago).

BTW it's nice to see a Canadian showing interest in the KHL instead of calling it a bush league and comparing it to AHL...
I would call it developing.

They have a grand vision for the KHL that will take time and dedication I just hope it comes to fruition, because the idea is a great one for the game.

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07-03-2014, 08:32 AM
  #997
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In Helsingin Sanomat yesterday, Jokerit GM Kohonen said he estimates the overall budget to be "under 25 million euros". Sponsorship income would be about 8 million euros. The plan is to "be profitable". Since the ticket prices will about the same but with possibly less home games than last season, even with the 11K average attendance they're hoping for, where's the rest of the money supposed to come from?

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07-03-2014, 10:12 AM
  #998
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Closed....

Carry on with Part II.

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