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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
07-02-2014, 02:03 PM
  #76
IWantSakicAsMyGM
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
He doesn't take penalties...thats a good quality for sure..but for what we are talking about here the Lady Byng is useless. I didn't ask if you could keep RoR and sign MacK...i asked if you could do that while upgrading your defense. You have 1 D-Man signed beyond the 15/16 season. It would stand to reason that COL will be looking to upgrade their D over what it currently is...this means bigger money. You have 10mil in cap space at the moment with 1 spot open according to capgeek...certainly a good amount. Lets assume RoR gets atleast 6mil/year and MacK is going to be north of 7 and I wouldnt be suprised to see north of 8 mil. You really think you can do that and upgrade your D significantly?

I am just saying...if I am COL...value wise a cost controlled 19 year old D-Man with a ceiling as high as Maatta looks a lot better to me than RoR.
Yes, the Avs will be looking to upgrade their D with cost controlled D in the near future. Namely, Siemens, Bigras, Elliott, and Barrie.

If ROR signs for $6m, the Avs still have $4m in cap space this year. Barrie will probably take up around $2-2.5m of that, but they could bury Ryan Wilson in the AHL and pretty much nullify that.

And there's at least $13m coming off the books at the end of the season (Briere, Hejda, Stuart, and Wilson) - $14m if McLeod isn't re-signed. Cap probably goes up another $2m or so, and there's $17.5m in cap space to work on giving EJ an extension (probably around $6m, so $2.25m more than his current cap hit), and work on getting MacKinnon a long term extension in place. If it's an $8m hit, the Avs still have about $7m to address their D. Assume Bigras or Siemens is ready for at least third pairing after next season and the Avs have the money sign a top 4 LHD for less than $6m. Maybe trade Elliott for a LHD, or something like that.

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Old
07-02-2014, 02:06 PM
  #77
Avs44
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Originally Posted by madinsomniac View Post
um... Brooks Orpik, on the decline, just potted 5.5 over 5 years... Derrek Engelland, the 7th defenseman who couldn't even crack the lineup regularly just got 2.9 for 3 years... defensemen are almost always more valuable than forwards in the eyes of NHL teams Colorado is balking at paying ROR 6+ on a contract... they obviously do not feel he has the same value as a true franchise forward or they would have paid him long term more than this already. You cant say in one breathe he is a franchise type player, then in the other breath offer him less than a regular star forward makes
So much wrong.

A) Are you really trying to compare UFA/RFA?? If you want to compare the contracts of defensman vs RFA forwards, then be honest about it and use RFA comparables. Try someone such as Roman Josi. What you just did by using UFA contracts was cherry picking examples to suit a perspective that you already had formed.


B) You mentioned the Avs offering ROR less than what a regular star forward usually makes. First off, since you obviously know, how much are the Avs offering ROR? Second of all, Jamie Benn, Matt Duchene, Tyler Seguin, Logan Couture, John Tavares and Taylor Hall. All are star forwards, all are better than ROR and they all make 6 million or less. Your arguments hold no weight.

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Old
07-02-2014, 02:45 PM
  #78
AvalancheRy
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
So you are telling me that an Av's team with an abundance of skilled forwards but is really lacking on defense is going to value their skilled forward more than a 19 year old defender that would be a number 1/2 guy on the majority of NHL teams last year?

lol.
I'm saying that O'Reilly simply has more value than Maata at this point.

Sure the Avs need defense but they aren't going trade away a player for less value based exclusively on need.

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Old
07-02-2014, 02:50 PM
  #79
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To the original proposal: Gross, no.

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Old
07-02-2014, 02:57 PM
  #80
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So, what about Scuderi for a pick?

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Old
07-02-2014, 04:41 PM
  #81
Miri
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
he never said ROR is worthless. He said the Lady Byng is useless in terms of adding value to a player....which it is.
So being one of the best players in the league at takeaways while not getting any penalty minutes doing that is a useless quality. Ok then.

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Old
07-02-2014, 04:44 PM
  #82
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
So you are telling me that an Av's team with an abundance of skilled forwards but is really lacking on defense is going to value their skilled forward more than a 19 year old defender that would be a number 1/2 guy on the majority of NHL teams last year?

lol.
Yeah, undersell a player because you have a need elsewhere. That's the way successful teams go about things.

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Old
07-02-2014, 04:56 PM
  #83
roon
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Yeah, undersell a player because you have a need elsewhere. That's the way successful teams go about things.
For god sakes...you are not under selling him. Spezza basically got OTT Chiasson. Yea he is a lot older than RoR but he is a PPG center and has a track record of putting up points in a serious way. I think you need to be a bit more realistic about what type of return you are going to get.

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Old
07-02-2014, 04:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think you are overrating Maatta quite a bit. He's a very talented young guy but is a long way from being a top pairing guy on any team. He was a #4-5 for Penguins last year.
Wrong.

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Old
07-02-2014, 05:06 PM
  #85
Avs44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
For god sakes...you are not under selling him. Spezza basically got OTT Chiasson. Yea he is a lot older than RoR but he is a PPG center and has a track record of putting up points in a serious way. I think you need to be a bit more realistic about what type of return you are going to get.
A 31 year old one dimensional centre who's had some injury troubles and who demanded a trade versus a 23 year good two way forward. One player is on the decline and the other is not even in his prime. One is a player who you hope takes you somewhere in the next 2-3 years before he gets too old and the other you can build around as part of your core for the next decade.



I can certainly see the similarities that encouraged you to make a comparison.

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Old
07-02-2014, 05:09 PM
  #86
roon
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
A 31 year old one dimensional centre who's had some injury troubles and who demanded a trade versus a 23 year good two way forward. One player is on the decline and the other is not even in his prime. One is a player who you hope takes you somewhere in the next 2-3 years before he gets too old and the other you can build around as part of your core for the next decade.



I can certainly see the similarities that encouraged you to make a comparison.
A one dimensional center? Good lord.

Demanded a trade? Is that better or worse than holding out and not showing up to training camp?

Get's to old? Players are competing at a high level well into their 30's these days.

You really need to stop looking at this from an Av's fan perspective and get serious.

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Old
07-02-2014, 05:21 PM
  #87
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
For god sakes...you are not under selling him. Spezza basically got OTT Chiasson. Yea he is a lot older than RoR but he is a PPG center and has a track record of putting up points in a serious way. I think you need to be a bit more realistic about what type of return you are going to get.
If that's the return then playing him for two years and trading him for a pick as a rental is better.

And this Pens proposal is a massive overpayment.

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Old
07-03-2014, 02:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
If that's the return then playing him for two years and trading him for a pick as a rental is better.

And this Pens proposal is a massive overpayment.
My OP is a massive overpayment?

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Old
07-03-2014, 02:41 PM
  #89
Avs44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
A one dimensional center? Good lord.
Good lord is right.

Quote:
Demanded a trade? Is that better or worse than holding out and not showing up to training camp?
Is ROR not showing up to training camp currently? I must have missed how the Avs have to trade ROR as the Sens had to trade Spezza because ROR didn't show up two years ago. My bad
Quote:
Get's to old? Players are competing at a high level well into their 30's these days.
Some do, some don't. There are the Jagr's of the NHL then there are the Sedins for example, who's play fell off a cliff this past year.

Quote:
You really need to stop looking at this from an Av's fan perspective and get serious.
You're right, I'll adopt your perspective. Maatta has more value than ROR!


By "stop looking at this from an Av's fans perspective" you really mean, "agree with me!" even though you've provided no factual arguments or strong examples.

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Old
07-03-2014, 02:56 PM
  #90
BumFortyOne
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How would Sutter+Maatta+Dupuis for O'Reilly+something small go over from Colorado's perspective?

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Old
07-03-2014, 02:57 PM
  #91
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Isn't this Roon guy the one who wouldn't trade Coyle straight up for MacKinnon? I don't know why people keep arguing with him...he is trolling you.

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Old
07-03-2014, 03:24 PM
  #92
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This just in, HF fanbases overvalue their own players, undervalue other team's players.

In other news, water is wet...

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Old
07-03-2014, 03:24 PM
  #93
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by ThunderBird View Post
Isn't this Roon guy the one who wouldn't trade Coyle straight up for MacKinnon? I don't know why people keep arguing with him...he is trolling you.
Yes he is.

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Old
07-03-2014, 03:47 PM
  #94
Meeqs
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Originally Posted by BumFortyOne View Post
How would Sutter+Maatta+Dupuis for O'Reilly+something small go over from Colorado's perspective?
Avs wouldn't have an interest in Dupuis as he is more of a cap dump currently.

Maatta and Sutter would be a good return for RoR however it is risky to trade RoR for a very young dman who doesnt have a very long track record.

I would personally see if I could trade him for another young 1st line winger of similar capabilities as that is the hole he would be leaving.

OP's proposal was total S***

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Old
07-03-2014, 03:57 PM
  #95
Avs44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BumFortyOne View Post
How would Sutter+Maatta+Dupuis for O'Reilly+something small go over from Colorado's perspective?
I don't think the Avs could fit that under the cap with Barrie still having to be re-signed among others. Good value though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderBird View Post
Isn't this Roon guy the one who wouldn't trade Coyle straight up for MacKinnon? I don't know why people keep arguing with him...he is trolling you.
Well that brings an abrupt end to my conversation with him. All I need to know.

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