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Malik did it again

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Old
04-04-2007, 02:58 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post

Anyway, I thought Malik, along with Girardi and Strudwick, played particularly poorly last night. Numerous mistakes and bad decisions, being out of position, turnovers because of the Islander forechecking pressure, etc.

The funny thing is, Girardi and Strudwick came out of the game with well earned -2 ratings, and Malik came out + 2. PLUS 2!!! PLUS FREAKIN 2!!!
Somethings man was not meant to understand

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04-04-2007, 02:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
yes, its weak to tell you to shut up on the internet.. uhuh

ok how does this sound.. you have no credability, everything you wrote makes you look like an idiot, so save me the grief of reading your crap and don't post again

much appreciated, thanks
Sorry. You'll have to either skip my posts or continue reading them. There are no other choices. Tough break for you.

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04-04-2007, 03:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I guess the question would be do you think he played well defensively last night.

There have been many nights where Malik was this team's worst defenseman yet comes up a plus. When you're out there with Jagr mostly, and with Lundqvist behind you that's going to happen often. I mean, Lundqvist is going to make 30 saves per game - many of them quality saves - so just because the minus didn't happen doesn't mean Malik didn't turnover the puck with a pass up the middle in the defensive zone that resulted in a quality scoring chance against.
Statistically it is possible for your hypothesis that Malik is no good to be correct short term. It is far less likely over 80 or so games. Next to impossible over a career. He is +128 for his career. You just can't be terrible and be +128. Can't be.

The excuse that Jagr is responsible for this is nonsense. He spent the bulk of his career without the support of Jagr.

For whatever reason, the glaring defensive errors that lead to goals tend not to happen to Malik. Why? I'm not sure. But a quick look through Malik's career show this to be an established pattern. His plus/minus record over his career is proof of this. We are not talking about a statistical aberration here. We are talking about a definitive pattern over a long span of time.

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04-04-2007, 03:11 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
For whatever reason, the glaring defensive errors that lead to goals tend not to happen to Malik. Why? I'm not sure. But a quick look through Malik's career show this to be an established pattern. His plus/minus record over his career is proof of this. We are not talking about a statistical aberration here. We are talking about a definitive pattern over a long span of time.
You're making it sound like Malik never makes a defensive error, so I would rephrase this:

'Malik's glaring defensive errors tend to lead to goals less often than other players' glaring defensive errors.' And he certainly makes his fair share, and then some. Why? I'm not sure.

I have no idea what happened when Malik played elsewhere, but I do agree it's an established pattern. It's a pretty big statistical sample. But playing with Jagr all the time has certainly helped his +/- here.

Would you call Malik our best defenseman?

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04-04-2007, 03:18 PM
  #30
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Oops, Malik did it again..

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04-04-2007, 03:20 PM
  #31
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I can't totally dispute, Chosen..

said this a while ago that I just can't explain. It's just weird when you see that he has a bad game and ends up a plus - it seemed to happen often.

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04-04-2007, 03:26 PM
  #32
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To everyone bashing Malik:

If the JJ line is responsible for his high plus minus rating, that doesn't explain why Malik is +31, Jagr is +24, and Nylander is +10.....

Malik has the good fortune of playing with Jagr when the Rangers are attacking, and the responsibility of playing with Jagr when the Rangers are defending. I couldn't quantify how many bad plays Malik has made that are a result of something sloppy the JJ line has done.

Whether or not Malik is the top defenseman on the Rangers or not is irrelevant. The question is whether or not there is a better alternative than Malik to play with JJ's line. It's pretty clear that neither Isbister nor Hossa is our third best forward, yet most of us seem to think that the line benefits from a hard-working, large forward who knows how to cycle.

Defense is not the issue with the Rangers, the issue is getting the puck to find the back of the net.

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04-04-2007, 03:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Statistically it is possible for your hypothesis that Malik is no good to be correct short term. It is far less likely over 80 or so games. Next to impossible over a career. He is +128 for his career. You just can't be terrible and be +128. Can't be.

The excuse that Jagr is responsible for this is nonsense. He spent the bulk of his career without the support of Jagr.

For whatever reason, the glaring defensive errors that lead to goals tend not to happen to Malik. Why? I'm not sure. But a quick look through Malik's career show this to be an established pattern. His plus/minus record over his career is proof of this. We are not talking about a statistical aberration here. We are talking about a definitive pattern over a long span of time.
Have to agree with you there... I don't know how he does it....

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Old
04-04-2007, 03:30 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
You're making it sound like Malik never makes a defensive error, so I would rephrase this:

'Malik's glaring defensive errors tend to lead to goals less often than other players' glaring defensive errors.' And he certainly makes his fair share, and then some. Why? I'm not sure.

I have no idea what happened when Malik played elsewhere, but I do agree it's an established pattern. It's a pretty big statistical sample. But playing with Jagr all the time has certainly helped his +/- here.

Would you call Malik our best defenseman?
First, thanks for keeping it civil, unlike some.

No question that playing with Jagr is good for Malik's plus/minus. No argument there. If Malik was a total negative, as many obviously believe, do you think the coaching staff would continue to throw him out there?

Let's assume that the coaching staff doesn't love Malik but bows to the wishes of Jagr (very unlikely, but possible). Is Jagr an idiot bent on his own self-destruction?

Certainly you must believe that Jagr wants Malik out there with him or he wouldn't be there. Jagr wants to feel comfortable with whomever he plays and in his opinion Malik is an excellent complement to his game. Even if Jagr were to be wrong, the fact that our MVP believes it to be so is incredibly important to the success of this team. Agree?

I'll rank our defensemen in my opinion:

Tyutin
Malik or Rozsival
Girardi
Mara
Pock
Rachunek
Strudwick

None is a true #1, with Tyutin having a shot at being a legit #2 but more likely a solid #3. It's not a great group. It's not even very good. But within the confines of our style of play it is adequate. If Girardi continues to improve I think he has a chance to be our 2nd best (forgetting about Staal or whomever appears).

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04-04-2007, 03:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uvm44 View Post
To everyone bashing Malik:

If the JJ line is responsible for his high plus minus rating, that doesn't explain why Malik is +31, Jagr is +24, and Nylander is +10.....

Malik has the good fortune of playing with Jagr when the Rangers are attacking, and the responsibility of playing with Jagr when the Rangers are defending. I couldn't quantify how many bad plays Malik has made that are a result of something sloppy the JJ line has done.

Whether or not Malik is the top defenseman on the Rangers or not is irrelevant. The question is whether or not there is a better alternative than Malik to play with JJ's line. It's pretty clear that neither Isbister nor Hossa is our third best forward, yet most of us seem to think that the line benefits from a hard-working, large forward who knows how to cycle.

Defense is not the issue with the Rangers, the issue is getting the puck to find the back of the net.
Yeah I can't dispute most of this...especially when you say it in a non-confrontational way (hint, hint).

But my original post was really about last night, Malik coming out a +2, half of which had to do with him playing with Jagr. Girardi and Strudwick were stuck with the penalty line, which last night was also the turnover line.

Not talking about Malik's career, just talking about last night. I thought Malik played terribly last night and came out +2. Others took this in the direction of career stats, Malik is amazing, etc.

I couldn't even get Chosen to say Malik played even a little bit below average last night!

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04-04-2007, 03:41 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post


I'll rank our defensemen in my opinion:

Tyutin
Malik or Rozsival
Girardi
Mara
Pock
Rachunek
Strudwick

None is a true #1, with Tyutin having a shot at being a legit #2 but more likely a solid #3. It's not a great group. It's not even very good. But within the confines of our style of play it is adequate. If Girardi continues to improve I think he has a chance to be our 2nd best (forgetting about Staal or whomever appears).
Totally agree with this. We need a #1. I'd like to see a #1 (maybe Staal someday?) with Tyutin, Roszival with Girardi (providing last night was an abberation), and Mara with Malik.

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04-04-2007, 03:41 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Yeah I can't dispute most of this...especially when you say it in a non-confrontational way (hint, hint).

But my original post was really about last night, Malik coming out a +2, half of which had to do with him playing with Jagr. Girardi and Strudwick were stuck with the penalty line, which last night was also the turnover line.

Not talking about Malik's career, just talking about last night. I thought Malik played terribly last night and came out +2. Others took this in the direction of career stats, Malik is amazing, etc.

I couldn't even get Chosen to say Malik played even a little bit below average last night!
I thought he was ok, not great last night. But I thought that about almost everyone, including Sean the Great.

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04-04-2007, 03:42 PM
  #38
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I don't see any reason to be confrontational. We are all fans here (I hope). Plus I don't want to be an asshat on my first couple of posts

That being said, I agree with you, I'm not all that impressed with him defensively. There is something about his play that makes me very nervous. But the issue of chemistry with Jagr is probably one that we shouldn't overlook. If Malik is really that bad defensively, moving him down to the "penalty" line would screw up the first line dynamic (the one with the high plus/minus in its current form), and hurt the lower line.

Basically, I think we are all just going to have to suck it up and be scared whenever Jagr's line is in their own zone. That's what I do anyway.

On a separate note, Strudwick was absolutely horrible. The first Isles goal, he did a lousy job covering his guy. I can't wait till Fedor gets back in the lineup.

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04-04-2007, 03:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Yeah I can't dispute most of this...especially when you say it in a non-confrontational way (hint, hint).
We all have our own styles. Sometimes I'm too confrontational but I really believe that Malik is singled out mostly for his size and lack of physicality than his actual play. And I also believe that at least part of the Malik Sucks contingent is populated by folks who think Orr is more valuable than Malik. They are the same folks who probably explained to me here how good Purinton was despite his being one of the worst players to ever wear the sweater.

Quote:
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I couldn't even get Chosen to say Malik played even a little bit below average last night!
Sorry. I thought it was an ordinary game for Malik and that his play did not affect the final score.

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04-04-2007, 03:48 PM
  #40
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I thought Girardi made the right play when he steped up at our blue line on the play that led to the 1st goal. He knocked the guy off the puck and a back checker(betts) should have grabbed it, So i dont really fault him for that goal.

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04-04-2007, 03:50 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by kasparaitis666 View Post
I thought Girardi made the right play when he steped up at our blue line on the play that led to the 1st goal. He knocked the guy off the puck and a back checker(betts) should have grabbed it, So i dont really fault him for that goal.
He didn't really knock the guy out of the play, thats why they were able to get that scoring chance.

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04-04-2007, 03:52 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by kasparaitis666 View Post
I thought Girardi made the right play when he steped up at our blue line on the play that led to the 1st goal. He knocked the guy off the puck and a back checker(betts) should have grabbed it, So i dont really fault him for that goal.
He did knock the guy off the puck, but the guy still got around him and retrieved the puck. Betts had another guy to worry about, but I will agree Betts and his line played miserably. And the goal was ultimately scored with a guy standing on Girardi's side of the ice banging away at a puck in the crease. I love the way Girardi has been playing, but that was weak.

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04-04-2007, 03:54 PM
  #43
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And he barely knocked the guy off the puck at that... I completely faulted Girardi for that first goal... He's played great though so tough to get on him.

Girardi has seemed to hold back a bit in these more physical games though. Some physical games he seems to want to get his nose dirty while others he seems to want to shy away a bit.

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04-04-2007, 04:20 PM
  #44
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[QUOTE=NYROrtsFan;8767097]And he barely knocked the guy off the puck at that... I completely faulted Girardi for that first goal... He's played great though so tough to get on him.

Girardi has seemed to hold back a bit in these more physical games though. Some physical games he seems to want to get his nose dirty while others he seems to want to shy away a bit.[/QUOTE]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dan may not be 100% healthy...just speculation.

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04-04-2007, 04:25 PM
  #45
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How do you guys take this so seriously? It's a little eerie.

Squabbles like this are the reason I stopped posting here.

Get girlfriends/wives/whatever.

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04-04-2007, 04:47 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
wow, that was just about the dumbest post you could have made in this thread on which is designated for debate
Lighten up hall, I'm just joking around. Trying to lighten the mood.

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04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
  #47
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I don't really see how Girardi was one of our worst defensemen last night. He's faulted for yet another Ranger deflection that leads to a goal against. If he's not excused for that then...

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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Statistically it is possible for your hypothesis that Malik is no good to be correct short term. It is far less likely over 80 or so games. Next to impossible over a career. He is +128 for his career. You just can't be terrible and be +128. Can't be.

The excuse that Jagr is responsible for this is nonsense. He spent the bulk of his career without the support of Jagr.

For whatever reason, the glaring defensive errors that lead to goals tend not to happen to Malik. Why? I'm not sure. But a quick look through Malik's career show this to be an established pattern. His plus/minus record over his career is proof of this. We are not talking about a statistical aberration here. We are talking about a definitive pattern over a long span of time.
How can you excuse Malik?

You are saying that he wasn't at fault for the Eager goal. You know the one where Malik was watching him skate from behind the net and jam away with 3 swipes. Malik is the guy watching from 5 feet away who never moved his feet to aid his goalie. He wasn't at fault during the Montreal game where he failed to mark anyone during any of the 4 goals scored while he was on the ice.

Look, you are certainly free to defend who ever you want, but to claim that Malik doesn't commit "glaring defensive errors that lead to goals" is ridiculous. Most of the goals scored while he is out there can be attributed to him. He is usually bailed out by Lundqvist though, like last night when he chased an Islander behind the net. Or against Boston (I believe) when he couldn't handle an Avery pass that went directly to the opposing forward for a breakaway that Lundqvist saved.

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Never mind that it is straight out impossible to lead your team in plus/minus and stink up the joint on a regular basis.
He does stink on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
How do you guys take this so seriously? It's a little eerie.

Squabbles like this are the reason I stopped posting here.

Get girlfriends/wives/whatever.
Then get back on your high horse and go somewhere else. I'm sure you're too busy with your cool life to read this post so it is probably as much of a waste to the discussion as your's though.

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Old
04-04-2007, 04:49 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
How do you guys take this so seriously? It's a little eerie.

Squabbles like this are the reason I stopped posting here.

Get girlfriends/wives/whatever.
You think this is a time to bring this up? What about the 500 threads on LINEUPS !?
Those are infinitely more useless and irrelevant.

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04-04-2007, 05:08 PM
  #49
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No, it's fine to discuss it, I was referring more to the upper half of the first page.

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04-04-2007, 08:42 PM
  #50
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Now up to plus 31 on the season yet some here write things like he stinks up the joint every other game, or how every player who ever laced them up is better.

Never mind that it is straight out impossible to lead your team in plus/minus and stink up the joint on a regular basis.

The inevitable denigrating threads (like this one) and comments are staples of this site and the stupid fans at the Garden who regularly boo Malik even when he has done nothing even remotely wrong remain idiots. They think Orr is more important to the team because he will punch people. Never mind that he can do nothing else. Much of the brain damaged crowd loves him.

You cannot be a non-physical defenseman here and be appreciated unless you have the offensive talent of a Leetch. Some hockey fans will always spit venom at large D-men that don't hit even if they do other things that help the team.

Face it. He fits in with the team we have and is a contributor. If we weren't structured around a Czech/European mentality he might be a non-contributor or worse. But we are structured that way.

Maybe some folks who don't appreciate him are wrong?

Nah, can't be that.

What was I thinking.
Very well said, I made a post saying the same kind of thing just the other day.

I said people don't like him because he's big and doesn't really use that size to hit people like fans want to see. Fans loved Book and Malik does everything that Beuk ever did excep for the fearsom hitting aspect of the game. Skating, passing, smart D, leadership all ever similar.........I would even give Malik the edge in passing.

Sorry I just don't see how he is our worst guy like most think he is.

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