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Playoff Push 07 GDT NYR @ NYI

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Old
04-04-2007, 02:09 PM
  #851
mattyd99
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
The 4th line of Holly-Betts-Orr definetley had a good stretch but has been horrible for close to 5 games...The two main reason in my eyes are that since the game has sped up and intensified (and with little fighting), Colton Orr just can not keep up....And then there's Hollweg who, ever since his major boarding penalty against Boston (and subsequent reaming), has played very timid..So, right now, they are neither fast enough nor physical enough.....And no way do you pair Struds with them...Hopefully, Renney will correct both mistakes tomorrow night because Montreal will not be easy..
I agree completely, Orr cannot be used in the playoffs unless we're playing the Devils. And Hollweg, my god someone needs to tell this guy that he can play the puck not just the body. He easily could've negated an icing last night instead he throws a hit. It's a shame because I've always liked Hollweg and was finally warming up to Orr but these guys are doing more harm than good right now.

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04-04-2007, 02:16 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
if you're going to use goals per game as a measure, then you might as well add in goals per minute played, since that would be a better measure.
Prucha has almost always played a regular shift on one of the top 3 lines and has been on the first or second PP unit, so i really dont know how that would change, unless you expect him to play and score shorthanded.

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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
My point was that he's one of the leading goal scorers on this team since January. And I'm looking at the number of absolute goals scored, not the goals per game as if you miss a game, it obviously does the team no good.
And my point is that is only the case because of an injured Shanahan and Straka. With a healthy Straka and Shanahan (something we havent had lately) then Prucha is at best our 5th scoring option. Factor in the addition of Avery, the play of Hossa before injury, and even the emergence of Callahan then Prucha is just really another weapon.

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04-04-2007, 02:19 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Rootin'Tyutin View Post
The only problem is that Prucha didn't sit for any of those players, he sat for Hollweg or Orr.
One has nothing to do with the other. I'm not defending the Prucha benching, just responding to some statistics that I didnt think told the whole truth.

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04-04-2007, 02:29 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by PruchaYeah View Post
I agree with you about Isbister but then sit Orr or Hollweg. you don't take a player off the ice who can score on the PP. It was a bad move IMO.
That is classic secondguessing.

When Renney sits Orr against Philly, he shouldn't have because Philly likes to hit. Well, so do the Isles. That is why Orr was in the lineup.

I guarantee you if he sat Orr and Prucha played and the Rangers got killed physically, people line up to say "why did Renney sit Orr, sit Prucha"

He can never win.

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04-04-2007, 03:51 PM
  #855
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Renney learned such a bad lesson in that Philly game from a while back... His team got gooned around to a point where he had to be worrying about all his players finishing the game completely healthy.

Now he's very wary about having that happen again. (And Rightfully so)

That said, from here on out he can go away from that. There is no longer a need for Orr except for maybe a game early on in the Devils series. I'd play him game 1 just to try to avoid Janssen doing anything.


Time to go with a lineup that has the 4th line being Hollweg Betts Ortmeyer

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04-04-2007, 04:30 PM
  #856
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This may have been discussed already, but did anyone see this incident with Lundqvist supposedly hitting the broom of the ice girls as she was trying to sweep the crease? There's quite a fuss about it over on the Isles board, as they seem to be looking for any reason to villify Henrik. From what I can gather she kept trying to sweep the crease, from which we all know that he never likes to leave during stoppages, and he batted her broom away with his stick. Sounds pretty harmless if you ask me, but was anyone there who can give a first-hand account?

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04-04-2007, 04:31 PM
  #857
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Renney is stupid. The Islanders had their season on the line. If they lose they are done. They have EVERYTHING TO LOSE. If you have everything to lose, you don't goon it up.

Once again, Renney is outcoached.

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04-04-2007, 04:57 PM
  #858
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Renney has done a GREAT job as the coach and he should be here another 5 years at least.

Anyone who sits and secondguess everything he does, I suggest they go out and become an NHL coach since they seem to think they know better than one who already is one.

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04-04-2007, 05:45 PM
  #859
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McRanger...

Prucha hasn't always been on a top three linse and we all know how much ice time he was getting on a second unit and what happened when he moved to the top unit. It wasn't all too uncommon for him to get less than 11/12 minutes on any given night, compared to others you mention have similiar goals per game, which is why I think that if you're going to do that, then why not be more accurate and do it on a per minute bnasis.

As for the injuries...yeah, you can say Prucha is the fifth best option when everyone's healthy, but everyone wasn't healthy and he became a better option, and happened to be healthy. He picked up his game when given a chance in the second half, when there were injuries, when others were slumping and when the PP was slumping.

Heck, he scored 20 goals this season, 30 last season and is still having trouble cracking the lineup, and when he does, he's still fighting for ice time.

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04-04-2007, 05:47 PM
  #860
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Pruch...

we all know that coaching in the NHL is a tough job - so us going out and trying it doesn't mean squat. The question always is are there better. It's like saying a guy like Poti's a great defenseman, and if you don't think so try to go out there yourself and play in an NHL game. Yeah, we know, it's tough...

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04-04-2007, 05:50 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Heck, he scored 20 goals this season, 30 last season and is still having trouble cracking the lineup, and when he does, he's still fighting for ice time.
That is the most telling thing, he has played significantly less than last season and yet has put in more goals than guys who have dressed every game. I'm sure we will see him in tomorrow night, but I just dont get why he wasnt in last night, maybe I never will and thats why i'm not a coach lol.

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04-04-2007, 06:34 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Prucha hasn't always been on a top three linse and we all know how much ice time he was getting on a second unit and what happened when he moved to the top unit. It wasn't all too uncommon for him to get less than 11/12 minutes on any given night, compared to others you mention have similiar goals per game, which is why I think that if you're going to do that, then why not be more accurate and do it on a per minute bnasis.
He was being bounced around, but has almost always played with either on the 2nd or 3rd lines, except for an odd game here and there. His overall ice time is no less than it was last season, between 13-14 minutes.

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As for the injuries...yeah, you can say Prucha is the fifth best option when everyone's healthy, but everyone wasn't healthy and he became a better option, and happened to be healthy. He picked up his game when given a chance in the second half, when there were injuries, when others were slumping and when the PP was slumping.
Even with the injuries, he has only scored at a .31 goal per game, which is off by alot from last year. Personally even with all the BS he has had to deal with, I expect more from Prucha. He looked like he had a real goal scorers touch last season, this year he looks more like that guy who swipes in the odd goal here and there and off of weird bounces. He has missed open nets and fanned on pucks ALOT this season, and seems to get more spastic on his skates every game he plays. Sometimes I think hes on his ass more than Cullen.

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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Heck, he scored 20 goals this season, 30 last season and is still having trouble cracking the lineup, and when he does, he's still fighting for ice time.
Because of the reasons I stated last post, hes the 5th best option at least, not counting some of the new guys.

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04-04-2007, 06:37 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Hockeyplayer99 View Post
I just can't stand Witt. Every game I see him play whether its the Rangers or another team, he always gets in a shoving match with people who aren't fighters, then when a tough guy goes for him, he doesn't want anything to do with them. He is a freaking p++++
Yep very true. Look at who he's fought this year. Commodore, Walker, Malone, etc

Backed away from Laraque, Orr, Brashear, etc

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04-04-2007, 07:17 PM
  #864
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McRanger..

he bounced around last season. Played a good amount with Betts, played on the fourth line, wasn't on the PP to start the season, etc. This season he's had significantly less quality PP ice time which affected his overall goal total, and thus goals per game. Take Shanny of the top PP at the beginning of the season and reduce his time and his goals per game go down too. His 'touch' was affected by his lack of chances which was affected by his lack of quality PP time. Remember last season he scored zero goals with Betts and much of the PP, several with Jagr and some with Rucchin and Sykora - he didn't get to play with Jagr as much this season and like I said, his quality PP time was down, and therefore we're not comparing apples to apples.

Yeah, 5th best option when everyone is healthy, although he still has only one less than Jagr in '07, one less than Nylander in '07 and more than the rest (yeah, Shanny was hurt, but Shanny also went 18 games without a PP goal while playing on the top PP unit that entire time). Oh, more goals than Straka in '07. Great to have a guy like him as a fifth option, or less as you implied - if that's the case, this team will have zero problems scoring.

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04-04-2007, 07:19 PM
  #865
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Because Witt doesn't fight heavyweights...

he a *****? He plays the game tough. I'm sure we'd love to see him on the Rangers' blue line and would love the few fights he got into. There's a lot of tough defensemen out there who push guys around but don't fight the big boys - nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make them any less tough.


Last edited by FLYLine24: 04-04-2007 at 07:32 PM.
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04-04-2007, 07:43 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
we all know that coaching in the NHL is a tough job - so us going out and trying it doesn't mean squat. The question always is are there better. It's like saying a guy like Poti's a great defenseman, and if you don't think so try to go out there yourself and play in an NHL game. Yeah, we know, it's tough...
Point was that some people just like to be negative and secondguess. But the man earned his job so at the very least, as a fan, you should trust his choice.

Unless someone is an NHL coach for the Rangers, he is no position to judge the coach. Saying "why isn't Dawes playing" when you have no idea what goes on in practice, to me, makes no sense.

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04-05-2007, 07:36 AM
  #867
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Actually no, it's GREAT coaching.
Oh, wow. Scratching a kid who scored 20 goals in his first two years in favor of a waiver-level player who has one foot out of the league is great coaching? Can you come up with another coach or team that does such a thing?
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Isbister needs to play on the first line because he is BIG, skates hard and at the net. This makes Nylander and Jagr more effective. You put a finesse player with them and they turn into ice capades.
First of all, why does Isbister have to play? 1 goal in 17 games on the top line is not a sign of someone who HAS to play. Isbister is big and strong, but where has that gotten him in his career? He is on the same trajectory that Jeff Toms was.

Frankly, who cares who plays with Jagr? When healthy and motivated, he does not need anyone to play with him. For whatever obscure reason, up until this year, Jagr needing to play with anyone was never a topic of conversation.
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This is why Hossa was good on that line. He will retake that spot from Isbister when he returns. Hossa is not finesse. He uses his size, like Isbister, in the corners. This frees up the other two.
Again, when Jagr is healthy and motivated, I could be his center and you could be his wing. And, while we are on such a topic, can you explain the success that he had last year with Prucha as his linemate? Somehow Prucha managed more offense than Isbister when playing with Jagr. A LOT more.
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I love Prucha but it was a smart choice. This game was gonna be physical and they needed the bangers out there.
Do the Devils scratch Gionta or Parise when playing a physical game? Does Kariya or Sullivan get scratched during a game with Detroit? How about Hedjuk?

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04-05-2007, 07:43 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Dress Prucha and put Orts with Hollweg and Betts..I honestly think Orts and Hollweg can feed off each other in a skating game, where Orr becomes a total non-entity, and be the decent 4th line we need for the POs..If they're not, maybe skate Orr for one of them
Problem is, you know that when the game starts, Ortmeyer will be on the third line and Prucha will be buried, playing minimal minutes on the 4th. I do not understand how Renney simply refuses to believe that Prucha is a top-6 forward.

I do not like Renney as a coach but I have never called for his head. But the guy is very simply a mediocre coach, at best. He does not put his team into the best position for success. He will be the coach as long as Sather is in charge. But his talents like somewhere else, than behind the bench.

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04-05-2007, 07:49 AM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Ola;8764269[B
Prucha-Straka-Jagr won't work[/B], why?
Certainly worked last year.
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I agree with you on Prucha, we haven't "found" a perfect position for him yet.
It's called let the kid play as a top-6 forward and leave him alone.
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Have Renney's treatment hurt Prucha?
LEt's see. The kid scores his 20th goal. Next game, he is banished to the 4th line. The game after that, he becomes a heathly scratch. Can't be too good for the confidence. As Fletch has pointed out, since January, he trails only Jagr and Nylander in goals. And this is someone who deserves to have his ice time reduced and be a healthy scratch?

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04-05-2007, 07:53 AM
  #870
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Even with the injuries, he has only scored at a .31 goal per game, which is off by alot from last year. Personally even with all the BS he has had to deal with, I expect more from Prucha. He looked like he had a real goal scorers touch last season, this year he looks more like that guy who swipes in the odd goal here and there and off of weird bounces. He has missed open nets and fanned on pucks ALOT this season, and seems to get more spastic on his skates every game he plays.
Anyway you cut it, he has 50 goals in his first two seasons and back-to-back 20 goal seasons to start his Rangers career. Can you recall the last Ranger to start his career that way? 50 goals in his first two years while playing mostly on the bottom-2 lines is pretty good. On any other team, he would be a top-6 forward. Renney's handling of him is nothing short of idiotic.

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04-05-2007, 09:49 AM
  #871
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Anyway you cut it, he has 50 goals in his first two seasons and back-to-back 20 goal seasons to start his Rangers career. Can you recall the last Ranger to start his career that way? 50 goals in his first two years while playing mostly on the bottom-2 lines is pretty good. On any other team, he would be a top-6 forward. Renney's handling of him is nothing short of idiotic.
He started the season as a top 6 forward, and it didnt work out. First it was because it was that he was deferring to Shanahan. Then it was because Cullen wasnt a playmaking center. Then it was because he wasnt getting enough ice time on the PP. Either way, at the halfway point of the season he had, what, 8 goals? Everyone was willing to come up with a different excuse for why the production wasnt there, but you almost never hear on these boards about the missing of empty nets, the flubbing of shots, the constant spastic handling of the puck and of course the fact that he spends more time on his ass than creating offense. I'm sorry if this upsets people who view him as the successor to the Mike York/Manny Malhotra "young player who can do no wrong" but I think hes capable of more. Hes not big or strong, not particularly fast, cant handle the puck that well (especially through the neutral zone) so he has to do what he did last year to be successful, and that is to use his nose for the net, be opportunistic and get that awkward golf like shot of his ON NET. He was better as of late, showing good chemistry here and there especially on the COP line, but even then his numbers are about half of what they were last year. And now with a healthy Shanny and Straka, he is at best the number 5 option, and thats discounting all the previously mentioned players who have stood out more than Prucha.

Anyway, my original post was simply a response to what I thought were numbers that didnt tell the whole truth. My intention was not to criticize Prucha or defend Renney's bungling.

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04-05-2007, 10:05 AM
  #872
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Not trolling or anything (I'm too old for that) but this is a serious question -

Does Sam Rosen have a drinking problem? (he's paid to do 1 thing and often gets it wrong)

I watched Rangers in 60 yesterday and he said Jagr scored on Dubie in the shootout and the Isles were eliminated even though they won.

Wishful thinking and wrong on both by him.



Rosen counts out Isles prematurely
NEIL BEST


April 5, 2007
The usually reliable Sam Rosen of MSG made a big boo-boo Tuesday night, eliminating the Islanders before their conference rivals and basic mathematics could do the job.

QUOTE
Rosen mistakenly said more than once late in the game against the Rangers that even with a victory, the Islanders would be eliminated. He said it again even after they won in a shootout.

Oops. Rosen failed to account for the game in hand the Islanders had over the Canadiens, meaning they still had slim playoff possibilities.

Fans who turned off their TVs after the shootout likely were confused, but a few minutes later on "MSG, NY" Rosen corrected himself and apologized.

MSG did not, however, correct the mistake when it replayed the game on "Rangers in 60."

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Old
04-05-2007, 10:06 AM
  #873
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
He started the season as a top 6 forward, and it didnt work out. First it was because it was that he was deferring to Shanahan. Then it was because Cullen wasnt a playmaking center. Then it was because he wasnt getting enough ice time on the PP.
He did start the year on the 2nd line, but that lasted about a month. Meanwhile, last year Hossa played on the 2nd line for 3 months without producing a point (or very close to it). If you recall, Shanny did not exactly light up the scoresheet when being paired with Cullen either (most of his goals came away from Cullen and on the PP). That is becuase Cullen is not a 2nd line center. Cullen's play dramatically increased when he was put into a position for success, on the 3rd line.

Prucha's PP time, during all that was virtually non-existent, as Renney would send the Jagr unit with Shanny on it for about 1:45 of each PP. Prucha, like any other sniper, needs the PP to get his timing down and obtain confidence.
Quote:
I'm sorry if this upsets people who view him as the successor to the Mike York/Manny Malhotra "young player who can do no wrong" but I think hes capable of more.
He's produced much more than that. Like I said, aside from Middleton, can you recall another Ranger to net either 50 goals in his first two years or back-to-back 20 goal seasons to start his career? Doesn't that say something? If it does not, it should.
Quote:
Anyway, my original post was simply a response to what I thought were numbers that didnt tell the whole truth. My intention was not to criticize Prucha or defend Renney's bungling.
I understand that, but I do not even know if this qualifies as bungling. Want to bet the kid skates on the 4th line tonight, with Betts and Orr? Meanwhile Ormeyer (a 4th liner) will skate on the 3rd line and Isbister (at best a 4th liner, or waiver-level) will skate with Jagr. Like I said, much as I do not like Renney as a coach, I have never joined the mob and called for his head. But his game-time decisions and treatment of the best young forward since Amonte, Weight & Kovalev laced 'em up is simply appalling. Not that I am comparing him to them, just getting a timeline.

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04-05-2007, 10:29 AM
  #874
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post

LEt's see. The kid scores his 20th goal. Next game, he is banished to the 4th line. The game after that, he becomes a heathly scratch. Can't be too good for the confidence. As Fletch has pointed out, since January, he trails only Jagr and Nylander in goals. And this is someone who deserves to have his ice time reduced and be a healthy scratch?
That is why you are not a coach, TB . If you were, you would've known that you play those you need against certain teams, players, etc. Therefore, the ability to score IS NOT what coach, unlike the fans, values the most.

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04-05-2007, 11:47 AM
  #875
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If you were, you would've known that you play those you need against certain teams, players, etc. Therefore, the ability to score IS NOT what coach, unlike the fans, values the most.
If I were to be a coach, I would certainly have the idea of the fact that you do not bench your better players against various competition.

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