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Old
07-08-2014, 01:04 PM
  #26
WannabeFinn
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Thoughts on Cam playing on the same line with Calvert so often? I know a lot of people think they compliment each other well, but could Cam possibly put up better offensive numbers with someone else on the other wing?

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07-08-2014, 01:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
Thoughts on Cam playing on the same line with Calvert so often? I know a lot of people think they compliment each other well, but could Cam possibly put up better offensive numbers with someone else on the other wing?
Might not Matt put up better numbers with someone else on his other wing? The analysis done by The Coach at Union Blue on "with or without" (WOWY) were surprisingly strong for Calvert and not so much for Cam:

http://www.theunionblue.com/2014/06/...-wowy-numbers/

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07-08-2014, 02:13 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
Thoughts on Cam playing on the same line with Calvert so often? I know a lot of people think they compliment each other well, but could Cam possibly put up better offensive numbers with someone else on the other wing?
I actually thought Atkinson went in slumps whenever Calvert would leave the lineup with a minor ding.

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07-08-2014, 02:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I actually thought Atkinson went in slumps whenever Calvert would leave the lineup with a minor ding.
Anecdotally, this was my take as well, the Matty helped make Cam go.

EDIT:
Appaently the number in that piece pete linked back it up.

EDIT II:
And yes, I'm still advocating splitting them up.

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07-08-2014, 07:45 PM
  #30
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07-09-2014, 06:16 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Anecdotally, this was my take as well, the Matty helped make Cam go.

EDIT:
Appaently the number in that piece pete linked back it up.

EDIT II:
And yes, I'm still advocating splitting them up.
The numbers Pete posted say that Cam-Calvert were neutral together which I guess means they were no better when playing together than not?

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08-21-2014, 01:09 PM
  #32
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I'm tired of talking about Calvert . How about Cam, today's subject in Porty's countdown:

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...-atkinson.html

Quote:
Atkinson's shooting percentages, by season, beginning with his rookie season of 2011-12: 10.6, 9.9 and 9.7 percent. The only 20-goal scorers last season with a lower shooting percentage were Patric Hornqvist (22 goals, 8.9 percent), Brent Burns (22 goals, 9.0 percent), and Eric Staal (22 goals, 9.1 percent). Look at that as you wish, but if this is a case of bad luck, Atkinson could see a jump in scoring. If he shot even 12.7 percent, he could push for 30 goals .
Thoughts?

I'd like to see him go for 25+ goals and I think it is doable. Although it will depend on his line mates and his pp time.

Based on Tomas Tatar's deal of 2.75 per for 3 years I think Cam will be looking at a substantial raise in the vicinity of 2.5 to 3. To complicate matters Cam will be eligible for arbitration. If the Jackets seek arbitration they can't do it again. If thye did request it, Cam could then request a 2 year deal and be a UFA at the end of that deal.

He is eligible to become a UFA at the end of the 2016-17 season as he will turn 27 before June 30 of that year.

(Arbitration and free agency points are based on my reading of the CBA so feel free to correct my misinterpretations)

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08-21-2014, 01:59 PM
  #33
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What would all of a sudden make his shooting% jump up to 12.7, or up to any other number that would indicated a significant improvement? He's had 3 consecutive seasons of relatively low shootiing percentages and they've only become worse with each passing year.

Of course I would love to see an improvement. 25+ goals from Cam would be wonderful. Also, Hartnell had roughly the same amount of goals and shooting% as Cam did. If at least one of them sees a significant jump in shooting%.. that'd just be great.

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08-21-2014, 02:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
What would all of a sudden make his shooting% jump up to 12.7, or up to any other number that would indicated a significant improvement? He's had 3 consecutive seasons of relatively low shootiing percentages and they've only become worse with each passing year.
At 3 shots per game (which he is almost at) with an increase to around 12.5% (which is possible); he's suddenly a 30 goal scorer. The reality is that his production is very questionable in a top six role.

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08-21-2014, 02:47 PM
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At 3 shots per game (which he is almost at) with an increase to around 12.5% (which is possible); he's suddenly a 30 goal scorer. The reality is that his production is very questionable in a top six role.
But doesn't that in a way contradict the fact that he was #3 in goals for us last year?

Also he could get to 30 with an increase in shots per game to 3.3 and an increase in his shooting % to 11 or so. Lots of ways for him to do it including more pp time.

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08-21-2014, 02:58 PM
  #36
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Atkinson will always have a low shooting percentage, i think, because he relies on a quantity approach. Many times Calvert and Atkinson scored together by playing a frenzied game of whack-the-puck with the goalie: keep firing it hard into his pads and he'll eventually be out of position. That's where I think he gets the big shot totals.

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08-21-2014, 02:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
But doesn't that in a way contradict the fact that he was #3 in goals for us last year?

Also he could get to 30 with an increase in shots per game to 3.3 and an increase in his shooting % to 11 or so. Lots of ways for him to do it including more pp time.
His overall production is at a 31+ minute mark. Not a good number. Dubinsky was a little better at 28 minutes. Pre-all star was pretty decent with a couple of good months. Atkinson was all over the place, 3 really good months and 4 really bad ones.


Last edited by blahblah: 08-21-2014 at 03:04 PM.
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08-21-2014, 03:11 PM
  #38
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His overall production is at a 31+ minute mark. Not a good number. Dubinsky was a little better at 28 minutes. Pre-all star was pretty decent with a couple of good months. Atkinson was all over the place, 3 really good months and 4 really bad ones.
I don't think 31 PROD is terrible either. For the league it's low-end second line. The issue with Atkinson is that he fell off the cliff for some of those months. That's what needs work.

We've discussed this before but I think the big issue with him is that it's hard for him to maintain the requisite intensity and abandon that he needs to be a top scorer. And I don't blame him, not many have the guts to do what he does sometimes.

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08-21-2014, 03:27 PM
  #39
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If only he could be more consistent.

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08-21-2014, 06:06 PM
  #40
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If he were consistent, he would be in the league that his potential suggests he belongs in. But since he's not consistent, to me he's a disappointing player. I'm afraid he is now who he appears to be now, and I'm not sure he's going to get much better. I think this will be an important year for Cam.

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08-21-2014, 08:09 PM
  #41
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The guy has played less than 2 full seasons and averages about .5 pts per game. He was a 6th round draft pick. Disappointing? I think not when you look at it in those terms.

When you look at it through Jacket fan eyes ( a lot of whom elevate every draft pick to "great prospecT") maybe he is disappointing.

I'll gladly take 20+ goals again and hopefully he gets closer to 25.

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08-21-2014, 09:22 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The guy has played less than 2 full seasons and averages about .5 pts per game. He was a 6th round draft pick. Disappointing? I think not when you look at it in those terms.

When you look at it through Jacket fan eyes ( a lot of whom elevate every draft pick to "great prospecT") maybe he is disappointing.

I'll gladly take 20+ goals again and hopefully he gets closer to 25.
Agreed, and well put.

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08-21-2014, 09:55 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The guy has played less than 2 full seasons and averages about .5 pts per game. He was a 6th round draft pick. Disappointing? I think not when you look at it in those terms.

When you look at it through Jacket fan eyes ( a lot of whom elevate every draft pick to "great prospecT") maybe he is disappointing.

I'll gladly take 20+ goals again and hopefully he gets closer to 25.
You're right, perspective is a good thing! I didn't make clear but also consider his attitude to be different than I'd like it to be. Not by a lot, but some. In the perpetual exercise of comparing Calvert to Cam, I don't think Matty would come off as somewhat resistant to coaching the way Cam has.

As a 6th round pick, you're absolutely right. But as a guy who shown a level of play that he doesn't reach as often as I'd like or as often as he seems able to, I don't think disappointing is that much of a slur

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08-22-2014, 05:57 AM
  #44
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You're right, perspective is a good thing! I didn't make clear but also consider his attitude to be different than I'd like it to be. Not by a lot, but some. In the perpetual exercise of comparing Calvert to Cam, I don't think Matty would come off as somewhat resistant to coaching the way Cam has.

As a 6th round pick, you're absolutely right. But as a guy who shown a level of play that he doesn't reach as often as I'd like or as often as he seems able to, I don't think disappointing is that much of a slur
I'll buy inconsistent. Hopefully he can get that down and then I think we could have a solid top 6 guy.

For grins and hopeful thinking, I just looked at MSL's stats and through his first 200 games over 4 seasons he had 95 points.

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08-22-2014, 08:31 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The guy has played less than 2 full seasons and averages about .5 pts per game. He was a 6th round draft pick. Disappointing? I think not when you look at it in those terms.
I wouldn't use disappointing, but I would say that there hasn't been much in the way of progress. If you prorate out his stats over his 3 seasons, his stats are almost identical year by year. There is a lot of consistency in his inconsistency, all the way down to him producing at a much higher rate in April. Having said that his play wasn't quite up to his line mates in the playoffs. Calvert elevated his game while Atkinson regressed a little, but it wasn't too much of a drop.

Last season he got a bump in production the PP, which means he declined a bit 5 on 5.

Quote:
I'll gladly take 20+ goals again and hopefully he gets closer to 25.
We need his line to produce a bit more. He's the shot producer on his line, he needs to convert more. We just can't have those long stretch's, we're talking a month or two, of a significant lack of production. Calvert offers a better overall two way game in the event he isn't producing.

He did get 5 GWG's. I guess we'll see if that was an anomaly.

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08-22-2014, 08:34 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
The guy has played less than 2 full seasons and averages about .5 pts per game. He was a 6th round draft pick. Disappointing? I think not when you look at it in those terms.

When you look at it through Jacket fan eyes ( a lot of whom elevate every draft pick to "great prospecT") maybe he is disappointing.

I'll gladly take 20+ goals again and hopefully he gets closer to 25.
I agree with this assessment, yet...

When examining what spots in the lineup the team could potentially and reasonably upgrade during the offseason, Cam's (assuming a top 6 wing) was the spot I kept coming back to.

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08-22-2014, 11:14 AM
  #47
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Cam needs to score 25-30 goals this season. He's undersized and doesn't have the 2 way game to get by on 20 goals a year.

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08-22-2014, 02:28 PM
  #48
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Cam needs to score 25-30 goals this season. He's undersized and doesn't have the 2 way game to get by on 20 goals a year.
Yep. Pretty much. He needs to really impress the front office this year given the fact he's due a healthy raise after this year. If he plays streaky and barely breaks 20 goals again, I doubt the front office will want to pay up when we can slot a young guy into his spot in the line-up who wont be making the 3mil that cam will probably get next season. I like Cam a lot, mostly because we are the same height, but I don't see him around next year (or even past the deadline) with another season like last year.

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08-23-2014, 12:48 AM
  #49
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Yep. Pretty much. He needs to really impress the front office this year given the fact he's due a healthy raise after this year. If he plays streaky and barely breaks 20 goals again, I doubt the front office will want to pay up when we can slot a young guy into his spot in the line-up who wont be making the 3mil that cam will probably get next season. I like Cam a lot, mostly because we are the same height, but I don't see him around next year (or even past the deadline) with another season like last year.
Hopefully in a package for an upgrade. Would be upsetting to see us trade him away for just picks/prospects if we're looking at another playoff run. I know it would help us in the long run but I can't imagine his return would be THAT big.

Speaking of, what could we realistically get straight up for Cam? 20+ goal scorer with potential for more, young, cheap cap hit, pending RFA. I've got to imagine the RFA part and low cap hit definitely help his value at the deadline.

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08-23-2014, 09:01 AM
  #50
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What are the chances that Cam turns into the next Marty St. Louis?

Literally close to zero, because very very few players ever turn out that great, and he doesn't have the playmaking skill of MSL, but their careers have been oddly parallel to this point. It makes it really hard to sell on Cam.

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