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[EDM/TBL] Sam Gagner For Teddy Purcell; Then TBL Trades Gagner to ARZ Part II

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07-09-2014, 03:53 PM
  #51
Necropolis
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
in 10/11, his most common linemates were Vinny, dominic moore, ,simon gagne, bergenhiem, and malone

in 11/12, his time was pretty spread out with nobody playing more than 1/3 of his time with him. his most common linemates were st louis, malone, vinny, downie, and pyatt.

in 12/13, he played with stamkos and malone and did ok. Using Corsi as the measuring tool, he seems to have more impact with checking assignments / secondary offense instead of elite offensive guys.
Well, for what it's worth, in 11-12 and 13 he played with Stamkos and/or St. Louis in almost every game I watched. 10/11 was different thing, though. He started out playing in third line but worked himself to the second line 5-6 games in. His role changed a lot that season, was playing third line for stretches but then second line again for stretches. He was very good that season, though. But my point is still, he never carried the second line. But yes, I think Teddy is a very good fit for creating secondary offense since he does have good offensive tools. He's not a top-line player because he lacks consistency but he can be that kind of guy that creates the offense when Hall or RNH are shut down.

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Originally Posted by oilerfan17 View Post
Thank you for the time you took to write this up. I greatly appreciate the insight. I do have a question for you. Where did Purcell spend the majority of his PP time? Was he on the LW boards, in the slot?
I think he spent most of his PP time on either left wing boards or on the point. If Stamkos was in the slot, he'd be on the boards, if Stamkos was on that position, he'd be playing the point. He was most often the fourth forward on the ice, the one on defenseman position.

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07-10-2014, 05:47 AM
  #52
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Players who struggle to play physical and are known to take nights off?
Those unfair fans!
Pretty weird how Hemsky, Gilbert, Cogliano, and Penner all went on to other organizations and have been successful, right? How can they when they're all complete suckbags made of lazy?!

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07-10-2014, 05:55 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Pretty weird how Hemsky, Gilbert, Cogliano, and Penner all went on to other organizations and have been successful, right? How can they when they're all complete suckbags made of lazy?!
They're the reason why Omark left. Well, that, and diarrhea.

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07-10-2014, 06:25 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vermin View Post
Well, for what it's worth, in 11-12 and 13 he played with Stamkos and/or St. Louis in almost every game I watched. 10/11 was different thing, though. He started out playing in third line but worked himself to the second line 5-6 games in. His role changed a lot that season, was playing third line for stretches but then second line again for stretches. He was very good that season, though. But my point is still, he never carried the second line. But yes, I think Teddy is a very good fit for creating secondary offense since he does have good offensive tools. He's not a top-line player because he lacks consistency but he can be that kind of guy that creates the offense when Hall or RNH are shut down.



I think he spent most of his PP time on either left wing boards or on the point. If Stamkos was in the slot, he'd be on the boards, if Stamkos was on that position, he'd be playing the point. He was most often the fourth forward on the ice, the one on defenseman position.
That's very interesting. Thank you for that. I didn't realize that he played the point on the PP. That's actually pretty neat from the Oilers' perspective, given that we'll likely have more forwards than there are PP spaces for them and no one yet who's really good on the point. Adds flexibility.

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07-10-2014, 12:48 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by archangel archangel View Post
Gagner for a sixth is all you guys need to know about hoe much players havevbeen overrated
Posts like this is all anyone else needs to know about how little you understand the trade/FA landscape

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07-10-2014, 06:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Pretty weird how Hemsky, Gilbert, Cogliano, and Penner all went on to other organizations and have been successful, right? How can they when they're all complete suckbags made of lazy?!
Hemsky is your only example in my mind of where someone went a became "successful" and that was for a very short stint. I am curious how he will do in Dallas.

Gilberts Corsi away from Campbell was terrible. If you watched any of Florida's games he was his usual give away machine. At the end of the year why did the second worst team decide to part ways with him? Minny didn't want him either and don't give me that cap space BS. Gilbert was terrible and is terrible and Montreal is in a world of hurt losing Gorges and bringing in a guy like Gilbert. Must have a good agent to capitalize on a thin defenseman market and get a raise from his previous league minimum contract.

Cogliano might be your best example depending on what you consider successful. He got traded to the Ducks and had his ice time reduced and switched to the wing. Was completely remolded slowly into a different player. Shows what good coaching can do.

Penner... Not as bad as your Gilbert example but close. Penners best personal year was with the Oil. Pancake Penner is a guy who drifts through hockey games. In the playoffs I would say he plays well and obviously helped win a cup so you can say that is successful of him. But he is one of those players that has his salary go down entering his peak years and the terms of his contracts shorter and shorter and he is now currently unemployed. I expect him to be either signed for 1 mill soon as a experiment. Or for him to not be signed until an injury takes out someone notable, and that team is desperate for a plug.

Pho has great coaching and a solid defensive system but it will takes years for Gagner to unlearn all his bad habits... if ever. He will not have the offensive star power around him to bolster his numbers either.

I've always rooted for Gagner but his overall play has been so weak, even during the lock-out where he put up good points, that it is extremely hard to imagine him being successful away from Edmonton. In Edmonton he cheated all over the ice to pad his numbers plus had excellent offensive line mates.

As a center he is useless and if he stayed Mac T would have moved him to the wing to shelter his lack of discipline.

In short I think he will be a train wreck next year for Pho. He will either try to play defensive, fail, and end up putting up 20 points in 82 games. Or, he will ignore his teams systems be -45 and still only manage to put up 45 points playing top line minutes.

This is of course an exaggeration, but I think for at least one full year Gagner will be very bad. Two years under Tippet and we might see some positive changes in his effectiveness.


Last edited by Aerchon: 07-10-2014 at 06:55 PM.
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07-13-2014, 08:53 PM
  #57
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Is this thread really on part 2? Are there really that many fans upset that we dealt Gagner for a serviceable winger with size? MacT himself said that Gagner wouldn't have been a C here going forward. So do you prefer Gagner as a winger or Purcell? For me it's not even close and is heavily in the favor of Purcell.

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07-14-2014, 09:17 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Is this thread really on part 2? Are there really that many fans upset that we dealt Gagner for a serviceable winger with size? MacT himself said that Gagner wouldn't have been a C here going forward. So do you prefer Gagner as a winger or Purcell? For me it's not even close and is heavily in the favor of Purcell
No kidding.

I think the conversation is more "something something....No centers, OMGZ...something something....rushed and no center, etc"

Yes, the Oilers did very well getting a solid NHL player back for Sam Gagner, and say what you want about the "Cap Space" the Oilers and Yotes won their deals, Tampa just gave away guys and fill it with Bryan Boyle.

Yes, Stralman was a good signing, but they gave away 3 forwards, and replaced them with one 3rd/4th liner.

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07-14-2014, 10:00 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
No kidding.

I think the conversation is more "something something....No centers, OMGZ...something something....rushed and no center, etc"


Yes, the Oilers did very well getting a solid NHL player back for Sam Gagner, and say what you want about the "Cap Space" the Oilers and Yotes won their deals, Tampa just gave away guys and fill it with Bryan Boyle.

Yes, Stralman was a good signing, but they gave away 3 forwards, and replaced them with one 3rd/4th liner.
I take it from the bolded part you are happy with our center position since the wording you used was so utterly dismissive?

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07-14-2014, 10:22 AM
  #60
Jimmi McJenkins
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I take it from the bolded part you are happy with our center position since the wording you used was so utterly dismissive?
Not at all, but if someone thinks "undoing" the Gagner for Purcell deal fixes that, that's flatly false.

The problem is Oilers fans go from concern to panic in seconds, whenever there's an issue, many assume it isn't being solved.


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07-14-2014, 10:26 AM
  #61
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I'll make anyone an avatar bet that Gagner outscores Purcell this year. Avatar for the whole 2015 offseason.

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07-14-2014, 10:28 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
I'll make anyone an avatar bet that Gagner outscores Purcell this year. Avatar for the whole 2015 offseason.
I don't know that matters, honestly (unless it's outscoring him 30pts to 25pts, then there's a problem), because it's different issue why Gagner's not here anymore.

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07-14-2014, 12:12 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I don't know that matters, honestly (unless it's outscoring him 30pts to 25pts, then there's a problem), because it's different issue why Gagner's not here anymore.
... None of which are solved with Purcell.

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07-14-2014, 12:16 PM
  #64
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... None of which are solved with Purcell.
Ok then.

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07-15-2014, 01:00 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
... None of which are solved with Purcell.
I dont know where the myth that Purcell plays big came from because he doesn't play big at all. That is not his game...he is a perimeter player.
I would even say Purcell is less grittier than Gagner.

I also think Gagner will out score Purcell.

About the only area that I think is an improvement is the possession game which should help the team because that was a glaring weakness for Gagner.

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07-15-2014, 01:17 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Is this thread really on part 2? Are there really that many fans upset that we dealt Gagner for a serviceable winger with size? MacT himself said that Gagner wouldn't have been a C here going forward. So do you prefer Gagner as a winger or Purcell? For me it's not even close and is heavily in the favor of Purcell.
Gagner. Purcell has size, but he's as soft as can be. At least Gagner is willing to get his nose dirty

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07-15-2014, 01:20 AM
  #67
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I dont know where the myth that Purcell plays big came from because he doesn't play big at all. That is not his game...he is a perimeter player.
I would even say Purcell is less grittier than Gagner.

I also think Gagner will out score Purcell.

About the only area that I think is an improvement is the possession game which should help the team because that was a glaring weakness for Gagner.
Penner proved that size matters a lot even if you dont hit or push people around. Purcell uses his size to drive to the net. That's all we need. I wouldn't be surprised if Gagner outscored Purcell but only because Gagner might play higher on the depth chart for Arizona

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07-15-2014, 04:01 AM
  #68
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What it comes down to is that Gagner wasn't a C on the Oilers... never was a viable one and wouldn't be going forward.

Essentially this came down to a swap of one winger for another and of two players who both needed (I think they would both honestly agree as well) a change of scenery. I think they'll both likely do better in new roles and in a new environment.

I think they are actually almost dead even when you consider everything that each player brings to the ice. Win-Win trade (for Yotes and Oil)... obviously just a cap dump for TB.

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07-15-2014, 09:53 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
I'll make anyone an avatar bet that Gagner outscores Purcell this year. Avatar for the whole 2015 offseason.
NHL points right? Or are we including points scored in the AHL after Snowpants clears waivers?

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07-15-2014, 10:01 AM
  #70
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Penner proved that size matters a lot even if you dont hit or push people around. Purcell uses his size to drive to the net. That's all we need. I wouldn't be surprised if Gagner outscored Purcell but only because Gagner might play higher on the depth chart for Arizona
Purcell is basically the same weight as Gagner...Penner is 250 lbs.

Purcell plays the perimeter...Penner doesn't.

Oiler fans have invented a player that doesn't exist. If you and others think that Purcell is a big player that goes to the dirty areas then you are going to be very disappointed.

Now I am not suggesting that Gagner shouldn't have been traded...he wasnt a fit for this team.

What I am saying is that I am not at all convinced that Purcell is a fit.

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07-15-2014, 10:04 AM
  #71
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From what I've seen, Purcell is more comfortable in neutral ice and even in the defensive end. Gagner might have the edge offensively, but I don't think we need that.

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07-15-2014, 11:04 AM
  #72
Jimmi McJenkins
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Purcell is basically the same weight as Gagner...Penner is 250 lbs.

Purcell plays the perimeter...Penner doesn't.

Oiler fans have invented a player that doesn't exist. If you and others think that Purcell is a big player that goes to the dirty areas then you are going to be very disappointed.

Now I am not suggesting that Gagner shouldn't have been traded...he wasnt a fit for this team.

What I am saying is that I am not at all convinced that Purcell is a fit.
So what you're honestly suggesting is the Oilers should have held on Gagner to deal him for something "better"?

Purcell has warts, he was traded for Sam Gagner, to expect to get a player without issues back is just silly and unrealistic.

The point that many are making, including myself, is that Purcell does fit this team, he improves the overall depth of the roster. He supports the top-6 wingers while pushing down the likes of Hendrick and Pitlick, giving the wings significantly better balance.

Not replacing Sam Gagner at center right now is a issue, but to suggest that Purcell is some failed Red Herring and imply that Gagner should be been dealt for something/someone is dumb frankly.

You got an NHL player for your player who wasn't a fit on this roster.

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07-15-2014, 11:30 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
So what you're honestly suggesting is the Oilers should have held on Gagner to deal him for something "better"?

Purcell has warts, he was traded for Sam Gagner, to expect to get a player without issues back is just silly and unrealistic.

The point that many are making, including myself, is that Purcell does fit this team, he improves the overall depth of the roster. He supports the top-6 wingers while pushing down the likes of Hendrick and Pitlick, giving the wings significantly better balance.

Not replacing Sam Gagner at center right now is a issue, but to suggest that Purcell is some failed Red Herring and imply that Gagner should be been dealt for something/someone is dumb frankly.

You got an NHL player for your player who wasn't a fit on this roster.
No where did I suggest that the Oilers should have held on to Gagner for something better. As a matter of fact that option was off the table due to Gagners contract realities.

What I am suggesting is lets not be delusional about what the Oilers did get.

They got a salary dump...plain and simple.

They got a perimeter player with size who plays small.

The positive in all this is Purcells possession numbers which by all reports is quite good. Much better than Gagners.

That said Purcells abilities as a player have predictably been over stated.

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07-15-2014, 11:53 AM
  #74
Jimmi McJenkins
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No where did I suggest that the Oilers should have held on to Gagner for something better. As a matter of fact that option was off the table due to Gagners contract realities.
No you're implying it. And it's unmistakable, that second sentence shows that.

Keeping Sam Gagner, you honestly believe was an option for this team? Why?

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07-15-2014, 11:58 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
No you're implying it. And it's unmistakable, that second sentence shows that.

Keeping Sam Gagner, you honestly believe was an option for this team? Why?
Jimmi...you can read whatever you want into my statements and clearly you are because I never said keeping Gagner was an option.

I am simply saying (for the 3rd time now) that Purcell is not the player that some posters want to believe he is.

It really is that simple.

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