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Prospect Camp 2014

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Old
07-12-2014, 04:11 PM
  #26
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They've always been free. Don't give McD ideas.

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07-12-2014, 07:56 PM
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Let's do our top prospects threads after this camp is done.

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07-13-2014, 01:45 AM
  #28
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How early do you guys go to get in? Like is it something I should be going an hour + in advance for?

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07-13-2014, 04:45 AM
  #29
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Ok, this is really crazy: The Hawks have only one CHL player coming to prospect camp from each position. There are 66 invitees!

Hartman from the W
Fournier from the Q
and someone named Allenby, a goalie, from the O.

Something like 45% of NHL players came through the CHL. Bowman is going a little crazy with this USA/Scandanavia experiment.

3/66 of ours played in the OHL last year.


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07-13-2014, 08:05 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Taze em View Post
Ok, this is really crazy: The Hawks have only one CHL player coming to prospect camp from each position. There are 66 invitees!

Hartman from the W
Fournier from the Q
and someone named Allenby, a goalie, from the O.

Something like 45% of NHL players came through the CHL. Bowman is going a little crazy with this USA/Scandanavia experiment.

3/66 of ours played in the OHL last year.
Danault, McNeill and Simpson were CHL draftees but yeah, it has been skewed as of late to USA and Scandinavia. USHL and college commits.

Most top CHL players are drafted before the Hawks draft. More USA and Euros tend to be available at the end of the first round. CHL prospects who drop to the back of the first round are either undersized or have some huge question mark in their game, skating/character. Also Russians, goalies, E Euros/other Euros tend drop to the end of the first or high second.

Well todays the day. It will be interesting to read reports on how the prospects look.

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07-13-2014, 08:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Danault, McNeill and Simpson were CHL draftees but yeah, it has been skewed as of late to USA and Scandinavia. USHL and college commits.

Most top CHL players are drafted before the Hawks draft. More USA and Euros tend to be available at the end of the first round. CHL prospects who drop to the back of the first round are either undersized or have some huge question mark in their game, skating/character. Also Russians, goalies, E Euros/other Euros tend drop to the end of the first or high second.

Well todays the day. It will be interesting to read reports on how the prospects look.
Yea, I meant the team they played for last season.

As for your theory that the CHLers are too good to fall to us... The Kings drafted 12 CHLers in their last 17 draft picks. It is obvious that the Swedes and Americans are just the Hawks preference.

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07-13-2014, 08:18 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Taze em View Post
Yea, I meant the team they played for last season.

As for your theory that the CHLers are too good to fall to us... The Kings drafted 12 CHLers in their last 17 draft picks. It is obvious that the Swedes and Americans are just the Hawks preference.
Like Scotty, like Stan. Unfortunately Scotty was a great coach and a so-so GM.

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07-13-2014, 08:35 AM
  #33
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As for your theory that the CHLers are too good to fall to us... The Kings drafted 12 CHLers in their last 17 draft picks. It is obvious that the Swedes and Americans are just the Hawks preference.
A large portion of prospects are USHL and Chicago area prospects. The USHL has its HQ in Chicago and it appears the Hawks give added emphasis to USHL/college commits all things being equal. Outside of the first or top 2 rounds, its a roll of the dice. As far as the local area prospects, the Hawks are also giving added weight to that. I think the Hawks are doing good to promote the prospects coming from local area programs.

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07-13-2014, 09:04 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
A large portion of prospects are USHL and Chicago area prospects. The USHL has its HQ in Chicago and it appears the Hawks give added emphasis to USHL/college commits all things being equal. Outside of the first or top 2 rounds, its a roll of the dice. As far as the local area prospects, the Hawks are also giving added weight to that. I think the Hawks are doing good to promote the prospects coming from local area programs.
But it's a business. Loyalty comes second to drafting talent (and sometimes more importantly character) no matter where the player comes from or what league he is playing in.

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07-13-2014, 09:10 AM
  #35
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I'm absolutely sure the Blackhawks think that the players they take project in their scouts' minds to be the best available player. The certainly seem to scout the USHL and Sweden a whole lot more than most teams, but these leagues aren't the German development program.

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07-13-2014, 09:17 AM
  #36
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But it's a business. Loyalty comes second to drafting talent (and sometimes more importantly character) no matter where the player comes from or what league he is playing in.
It is business. So are you saying there was better available talent at the slots than what the Hawks drafted. Outside of the first or first 2 rounds, I have no clue. That question is always open for discussion in the draft threads or post mortem analysis several years down the road. I can say I was very happy... no estatic with Schmaltz at #1. I wanted the Hawks to draft a center and he was on the short list of centers available.

Then how many of the total draft class are actually going to have a legitimate shot at making the team. Its not like the Hawks are in a rebuild starting from ground zero but they are recycling with prospects. Two would be good. Three is very good at this point. I think there can be that many from this class but we wont know for at least a couple of years. Then you would have several more making the AHL. With local talent, that brings that much more in potential attendance to Rockford. Stans got that angle figured out as well.

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07-13-2014, 09:21 AM
  #37
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People in Rockford aren't going to go to a game because there's a kid from Evanston on the third line. You take the player you feel the most comfortable/confident with/in. Period.

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07-13-2014, 09:25 AM
  #38
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People in Rockford aren't going to go to a game because there's a kid from Evanston on the third line. You take the player you feel the most comfortable/confident with/in. Period.
Im saying the prospects family and friends going to Rockfords games to see them play, not the UC.

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07-13-2014, 09:40 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
A large portion of prospects are USHL and Chicago area prospects. The USHL has its HQ in Chicago and it appears the Hawks give added emphasis to USHL/college commits all things being equal. Outside of the first or top 2 rounds, its a roll of the dice. As far as the local area prospects, the Hawks are also giving added weight to that. I think the Hawks are doing good to promote the prospects coming from local area programs.
No, man. The Hawks aren't favoring any region, league, program or any of that. They're selecting the kids who they think are the best available. They spend a lot of dough on scouting and, all in all, they've done a pretty good job at ID-ing quality players (talking about the Bowman regime here).

It is weird that they've taken so many US products. Evidently, the Hawks feel that those kids are undervalued, underscouted or both. But doing favors? I really don't think so.

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07-13-2014, 09:44 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Im saying the prospects family and friends going to Rockfords games to see them play, not the UC.
The Hawks aren't taking lesser players in order to sell a few dozen more Rockford Ice Hog tickets.

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07-13-2014, 09:50 AM
  #41
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No, man. The Hawks aren't favoring any region, league, program or any of that. They're selecting the kids who they think are the best available. They spend a lot of dough on scouting and, all in all, they've done a pretty good job at ID-ing quality players (talking about the Bowman regime here).

It is weird that they've taken so many US products. Evidently, the Hawks feel that those kids are undervalued, underscouted or both. But doing favors? I really don't think so.
I think you interpreted my post wrong. They're not doing favors but it appears they give added weight to local are prospects and USHL players all things being equal. Lets face it, after lets arbitrarily say 60, its not as clear what group of prospects falls into 61-90 range or 91-120 range etc. And below the 4th round, if anyone here can tell me your short list, Im sure the Hawks have a job waiting for you.

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The Hawks aren't taking lesser players in order to sell a few dozen more Rockford Ice Hog tickets.
Im not saying they're taking lesser players. We'll just have to say we disagree with my pov.

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07-13-2014, 09:53 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
I think you interpreted my post wrong. They're not doing favors but it appears they give added weight to local are prospects and USHL players all things being equal. Lets face it, after lets arbitrarily say 60, its not as clear what group of prospects falls into 61-90 range or 91-120 range etc. And below the 4th round, if anyone here can tell me your short list, Im sure the Hawks have a job waiting for you.
Of course it's not clear. That's why the Hawks pay the scouting staff. It's not the total random coin flip you're making it out to be though. Talent gets missed in the first few rounds all the time.

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07-13-2014, 10:19 AM
  #43
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No, man. The Hawks aren't favoring any region, league, program or any of that. They're selecting the kids who they think are the best available. They spend a lot of dough on scouting and, all in all, they've done a pretty good job at ID-ing quality players (talking about the Bowman regime here).

It is weird that they've taken so many US products. Evidently, the Hawks feel that those kids are undervalued, underscouted or both. But doing favors? I really don't think so.
They're not be doing favors, but they're definitely favoring a region. Bowman has taken a player who has played Chicago youth hockey in every one of his drafts. Also, the Hawks have taken a player from one specific youth hockey club in Chicago in the last 5/6 drafts -- the same club where ex-Hawks Steve Smith, Marty LaPointe, Steve Popast, and Eddie Olczyk have coached.

"Best available" could mean a lot of different things. When you get past the most talented kids in rounds 1, 2 and even 3 everyone starts to look a lot similar. I too believe they are taking their "best player." But Bowman's record of drafting Chicago kids is pretty obvious considering Chicago only has a handful of kids drafted every year.

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07-13-2014, 10:22 AM
  #44
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They're not be doing favors, but they're definitely favoring a region. Bowman has taken a player who has played Chicago youth hockey in every one of his drafts. Also, the Hawks have taken a player from one specific youth hockey club in Chicago in the last 5/6 drafts -- the same club where ex-Hawks Steve Smith, Marty LaPointe, Steve Popast, and Eddie Olczyk have coached.

"Best available" could mean a lot of different things. When you get past the most talented kids in rounds 1, 2 and even 3 everyone starts to look a lot similar. I too believe they are taking their "best player." But Bowman's record of drafting Chicago kids is pretty obvious considering Chicago only has a handful of kids drafted every year.
I'll buy "Tie goes to the region."

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07-13-2014, 10:30 AM
  #45
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I'll buy "Tie goes to the region."
I'd say even more than a tie. Are we going to take a Russian kid when there aren't any Russians in the lockerroom in Chicago or Rockford? Swedes sure can fit in when walking into either of those lockerrooms.

And "tie" is pretty broad term when you're past the 3rd round. Each round you could have 10-15 players who "tie."

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07-13-2014, 11:28 AM
  #46
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Bowman discussed this after the most recent draft. He said that they never draft anyone just because of where they come from but that a benefit to drafting kids from Europe and who are going the NCAA route is that they have their rights for four years. Whereas, when they draft kids from the CHL they have to offer them a contract after two years. A lot of the time, two years isn't enough time for there to be enough development that the Hawks can make a decision - outside of the first round, the players are typically years away from being NHL ready. So its to the team's benefit they have more time to watch the player develop and decide.

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07-13-2014, 11:30 AM
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I'd say even more than a tie. Are we going to take a Russian kid when there aren't any Russians in the lockerroom in Chicago or Rockford? Swedes sure can fit in when walking into either of those lockerrooms.

And "tie" is pretty broad term when you're past the 3rd round. Each round you could have 10-15 players who "tie."
Russians are a completely different animal than North Americans and virtually all Euros. So, they aren't the best example.

Yes, of course, selections are coming from a pool. I think 10-15 is hyperbole though. Maybe not in the beginning, but when teams are on (or near) the clock, the pool is probably no greater than 5 (and usually smaller).

The selection criteria and ratings are wholly subjective. The value of a VG scouting staff is flippin' huge, especially as you get past the first round and progressively deeper into the draft.

Anyone know what the Hawks' scouting budget is vis-a-vis other teams?

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07-13-2014, 11:32 AM
  #48
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I do think the trend towards college prospects is in part to do with the fact that those kids stay in our system longer before needing an ELC

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07-13-2014, 12:12 PM
  #49
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07-13-2014, 12:15 PM
  #50
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Bowman discussed this after the most recent draft. He said that they never draft anyone just because of where they come from but that a benefit to drafting kids from Europe and who are going the NCAA route is that they have their rights for four years. Whereas, when they draft kids from the CHL they have to offer them a contract after two years. A lot of the time, two years isn't enough time for there to be enough development that the Hawks can make a decision - outside of the first round, the players are typically years away from being NHL ready. So its to the team's benefit they have more time to watch the player develop and decide.
This is a good point. On the flip side you have players graduating at 22/23 and some looking to jump right into the NHL (eg. Hayes). Often times, management have no idea of how good said player will be in the Pro ranks. If Hayes (as an example) had played in RFD since he was 19/20, they'd have a much better gauge on his potential at this point. Perhaps they'd be more inclined to sign him to a 1-way contract.

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