HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hawks looking to trade Oduya

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-12-2014, 09:58 AM
  #76
BobbyJet
HFB Partner
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
For the last 8 playoff series cumulatively, Seabrook has made more large mistake in my opinion, and he has a more important role, more minutes, and a bigger cap hit. So yes, when a top pair type has a tougher time than the 2nd pair type, I'm more concerned about the more valuable one of the two.
Seabrook (Keith as well) is far from perfect, and he has his bad moments fumbling the puck for sure. However, after K/T he is right up there as the most clutch player on the team at crunch time. I don't think anyone needs reminding of his leadership abilities and the number of key goals he has had in the PO's. You may recall that if it wasn't for a series saving stop by Quick he almost did it again in this year's PO's. Please don't try and tell me that he and Oduya should be discussed in the same sentence, despite their respective salaries.

BobbyJet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 10:09 AM
  #77
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 7,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Leddy is a part of the future, IMO.

He is our best weapon among Dmen the power play already, IMO and will likely continue to improve.

Why do people keep saying we have prospects like him? No we don't. Literally none of our prospects are similar. Clendening is a righty shot, nowhere near as good a skater and doesn't have as good of a shot(Clendening shoots wrist shots and focuses more on getting deflections and sacrifices power for accuracy). Also Leddy is already the best Dman on the Hawks at carrying the puck and gone entry with pick possession. That isn't really Clendening's game. A lot of people who don't care to watch but instead make their judgements based on hockeydb. Not all offensive dmen are similar.

Oduya and Roszival are likely gone after this year. Seabrook's contract is up the year after that. If Johns lives up to his potential and or Seabrook wants too much money then he could be gone too.

Leddy has a chance to be on the Hawks for the next 10 years. I don't want to trade that for a guy in Oduya who is 34 years old and likely only a 1-2 year stop-gap.

In 5 years...Keith is 36, Seabrook is 34, Hjalmarsson is 32, and Leddy is 28 years old.

So are we really going to rely on drafting or developing a Johns, Clendening, ect. into a future core Dman to rely on? I'd rather keep Leddy. He may already be better than Oduya by next season. People are so overreactionary over a bad playoffs. Trade Sharp, trade Leddy...should've traded Toews after last year and Oduya when he was terrible against the Coyotes.
I agree with your comparison of Leddy v Clendening. Leddys offensive upside cant be duplicated with any prospect the Hawks currently have. I also agree if the Hawks found a way to keep Leddy and his d became even at a 4th dman level, he would be a core d for that long with Seabrook and others long gone. Problem is how do you fit his number in the cap. His salary is 3.4 and he wont be making less so something has to give.

ChiGuySez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 11:31 AM
  #78
hockeydoug
Registered User
 
hockeydoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Seabrook (Keith as well) is far from perfect, and he has his bad moments fumbling the puck for sure. However, after K/T he is right up there as the most clutch player on the team at crunch time. I don't think anyone needs reminding of his leadership abilities and the number of key goals he has had in the PO's. You may recall that if it wasn't for a series saving stop by Quick he almost did it again in this year's PO's. Please don't try and tell me that he and Oduya should be discussed in the same sentence, despite their respective salaries.
We'll agree to disagree about Seabrook being among the most clutch, especially in the defensive zone in big games. In the cap era, respective hits and roles are the biggest parts when comparing players. Don't mistake those comments as saying Oduya is a better of more important player, there's just less to fix at Oduya's slot, relative to everything. If a player plays a big role above their cap hit, they aren't a problem to move as far as I'm concerned.

I am not a huge fan of Oduya or Seabrook on their own and both gave me headaches to finish last year, but they fit very well for the team and I think it's a huge mistake to move any of the top 4 since it's the single biggest strength of the team relative to the division and conference for 15'.

Oduya for 3.3 is about as cost effective as it's going to get on the second pair and I'll take a vet in a contract year (that isn't on a serious decline or career reclamation tour) over an unproven player for that role on a contending team 9 times out of 10 given the option. I would rather see them moving enough space from a combination of Leddy, Versteeg, Roszival, or even Shaw. Yes, despite all the grindy gritty goodness of Shaw, I think he's less important than Oduya and yields a better return. There are plenty of reasons to move Oduya, but it's contingent on the relative returns. At what I consider straight value to the market and the team, Oduya moves after those 4.

hockeydoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 11:33 AM
  #79
xX Hot Fuss
Registered User
 
xX Hot Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,689
vCash: 500
Hockeydoug i'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the Oduya vs Seabrook talk. Are you saying we should trade Seabs but keep Oduya?

xX Hot Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 11:38 AM
  #80
hockeydoug
Registered User
 
hockeydoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
I agree with what people are saying about Leddy being the best long term answer, and I also agree that the prospects aren't likely to replace him soon. If he fits in the top 4 this year, he's going to be making significantly more than Oduya next year and it might be equally difficult to keep him around at a larger cap hit moving forward.

Given the history of the team and role on the team, I can't imagine the franchise giving up on or parting with Sharp or Seabrook, even if they should from a hockey operations perspective. I'm assuming that the team will be extending Sharp and Seabrook, even if that means carrying some dead cap weight. That's part of why I think it's tougher to justify keeping Leddy in the short and long term.

hockeydoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 11:44 AM
  #81
hockeydoug
Registered User
 
hockeydoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Hockeydoug i'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the Oduya vs Seabrook talk. Are you saying we should trade Seabs but keep Oduya?
No, not at all.

The bigger problems than Oduya or Handzus the last couple years are when the top players struggle. The 2nd and 3rd pair and depth players are supposed to make mistakes. The standards set for them are often ridiculous.

hockeydoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 01:10 PM
  #82
Hot Cheetos
Registered User
 
Hot Cheetos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 33
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I would rather they get thrown into the fire on the 3rd pairing to get their feet wet. I think Oduya is a ton more valuable than Roszival + Versteeg.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. Next year, sure trade him away, but getting rid of versteeg gives a young forward a chance that will likely have very little if any drop off from how versteeg played. It also gives a young defenseman or two a chance to rotate in with Leddy and see which of the two or three is ready the year after when Oduya is gone.

Hot Cheetos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 01:32 PM
  #83
BobbyJet
HFB Partner
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Cheetos View Post
This is pretty much exactly how I feel. Next year, sure trade him away, but getting rid of versteeg gives a young forward a chance that will likely have very little if any drop off from how versteeg played. It also gives a young defenseman or two a chance to rotate in with Leddy and see which of the two or three is ready the year after when Oduya is gone.
I hear you, but the point is Versteeg has no value at the moment and Stan knows it. What team would be interested? The player is in his mid twenties and if traded again he will be going to his 4th team. There's a lot to be leary about acquiring him at this time. If he comes to camp in top shape, and plays like it, that could increase his value significantly. If Stan can deal him over the summer, he could very well do so, but I doubt he gives him away. That would be an admission that acquiring him last season was his mistake, and perhaps his ego is playing a part in all of this? If he goes, it is likely closer to next season's TD.

BobbyJet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 02:00 PM
  #84
Hot Cheetos
Registered User
 
Hot Cheetos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 33
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I hear you, but the point is Versteeg has no value at the moment and Stan knows it. What team would be interested? The player is in his mid twenties and if traded again he will be going to his 4th team. There's a lot to be leary about acquiring him at this time. If he comes to camp in top shape, and plays like it, that could increase his value significantly. If Stan can deal him over the summer, he could very well do so, but I doubt he gives him away. That would be an admission that acquiring him last season was his mistake, and perhaps his ego is playing a part in all of this? If he goes, it is likely closer to next season's TD.
I'd rather sell low on versteeg, even if it means getting next to nothing in return (4th round pick or whatever) than pass up this season without a legit 4th D-man. I do not think you can get rid of leddy, as others have stated he brings something to the table that no other hawks d-man does. After this season that likely means sharp is gone if the Hawks are thinking the same way.

After actually reading through the entire thread, I really had no idea how much hate there is around here for Seabrook and Oduya. Two major reasons why the Hawks have had so much success.

Hot Cheetos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 02:59 PM
  #85
zytz
lumberjack
 
zytz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,876
vCash: 500
I don't think there's hate for either of them - but both Oduya and Seabrook have made some fantastically awful plays that are often overlooked simply because of who they are.

zytz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 03:10 PM
  #86
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 7,042
vCash: 500
Every dman has had bad games or bad stretches. Hjalmarsson has looked at times like his 3rd pairing form. Oduya is a #4 and been forced to play top d minutes. Hes got to be one of the top #4 dman around. Seabrook before this past season had so many unassisted blowouts. Didnt know if he could still skate.

ChiGuySez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 03:11 PM
  #87
xX Hot Fuss
Registered User
 
xX Hot Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,689
vCash: 500
Lol Seabrook falls over all the time

xX Hot Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 03:21 PM
  #88
bwana63
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chi western burbs
Posts: 317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Cheetos View Post
I'd rather sell low on versteeg, even if it means getting next to nothing in return (4th round pick or whatever) than pass up this season without a legit 4th D-man. I do not think you can get rid of leddy, as others have stated he brings something to the table that no other hawks d-man does. After this season that likely means sharp is gone if the Hawks are thinking the same way.

After actually reading through the entire thread, I really had no idea how much hate there is around here for Seabrook and Oduya. Two major reasons why the Hawks have had so much success.
+infinity

I fully understand the high-end skills Leddy has (skating, skating, PP QB, skating), but he isn't a #4 Dman. Not yet, anyway and I think it's fair to question if he'll grow into that. There are a lot of young D men knocking on the door and Leddy's next contract is gonna be a ball buster (WRT the Hawks' cap situtaion).

Not in love w/JO, but he's a good #4 and better D man (operative word being D) than Leddy right now. If we do roll the bones w/Leddy at #4, what about playing him w/Seabs? But Seabs is prone to gaffes too.

Dahlbeck, Johns and Clendening are very close, if not ready, for 3rd pairing time.

Bowman has a very big decision to make. I'd much rather have him give up on Versteeg and give him away than screw up our 2nd D tandem. And, as great of a pickup that Rozy was, either he or Brookbank has to go and I think it has to be Rozy.

bwana63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 04:14 PM
  #89
hisgirlfriday
Moderator
 
hisgirlfriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 14,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I hear you, but the point is Versteeg has no value at the moment and Stan knows it. What team would be interested? The player is in his mid twenties and if traded again he will be going to his 4th team. There's a lot to be leary about acquiring him at this time. If he comes to camp in top shape, and plays like it, that could increase his value significantly. If Stan can deal him over the summer, he could very well do so, but I doubt he gives him away. That would be an admission that acquiring him last season was his mistake, and perhaps his ego is playing a part in all of this? If he goes, it is likely closer to next season's TD.
Actually 6th team. Unless he's sent back to Toronto, Philly, Boston, or Florida. 5th team if you don't count the fact he was drafted by Boston as he only played for the AHL affiliate.

hisgirlfriday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 09:31 PM
  #90
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,567
vCash: 500
Oduya does make mistakes, and when he's bad, he's awful. But, he also makes some great plays just as often, takes hits to make plays and has the undeniable chemistry with Hammer. But he is no different than most #4Dmen, and those aren't easy to come by. I think it would be a mistake to trade him as Leddy is not fit for the top 4, and neither is any other Dman we have and we should be going all in this year.

Hawkaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2014, 09:49 PM
  #91
bwana63
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chi western burbs
Posts: 317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Oduya does make mistakes, and when he's bad, he's awful. But, he also makes some great plays just as often, takes hits to make plays and has the undeniable chemistry with Hammer. But he is no different than most #4Dmen, and those aren't easy to come by. I think it would be a mistake to trade him as Leddy is not fit for the top 4, and neither is any other Dman we have and we should be going all in this year.
Precisely. The '14-15 team is almost certainly going to be stronger than the '15-16 team, so why jettison a very solid #4D when there's a pretty big dropoff (defensively, anyway) with Leddy? And we very well may not be able to afford Leddy once his bridge contract expires.

bwana63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 12:54 AM
  #92
McDooRoo
Registered User
 
McDooRoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Wyoming
Country: United States
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
I don't mind this move. We have to get under the cap and everybody knows we ain't resigning Oduya, so try and get something in return.

McDooRoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 07:47 AM
  #93
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,434
vCash: 500
Who goes and who stays is based on a number of factors.

A lot depends on the return.

I"m sure Bowman is looking at what players can get back for a group of players who likely won't be with the team past the end of next year. Depending on the return now, he may choose to move a particular player prematurely.

I think Bowman would love to keep Oduya, but if the return is good enough now (for example, a pre-RFA d-amn who's cheaper but Bowman thinks is a good bet to contribute immediately), Bowman would likely move him.

While many on this board think that Chicago has no leverage because they need to gat down a few million in the cap.

But they don't have to move any particular player, so if no team will give fair value for any particular player, Chicago won't move him.

Chicago could always move a guy like Leddy and get the equivalency of a 1st round pick. Chicago might decide to move him if the return is good enough and they feel they won't be retaining him past next year anyway.

slappipappi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 08:11 AM
  #94
BobbyJet
HFB Partner
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Cheetos View Post
I'd rather sell low on versteeg, even if it means getting next to nothing in return (4th round pick or whatever) than pass up this season without a legit 4th D-man.
I agree but what team will want him?

It was a gamble to re-acquire Versteeg but Stan seems hesitant to admit that it was a gamble that failed. Despite the salary provision, right now it looks like Tallon duped Stan.... and we may be stuck with him unless he turns his play around to make him tradeable.

BobbyJet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 08:37 AM
  #95
southernbeardown54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I agree but what team will want him?

It was a gamble to re-acquire Versteeg but Stan seems hesitant to admit that it was a gamble that failed. Despite the salary provision, right now it looks like Tallon duped Stan.... and we may be stuck with him unless he turns his play around to make him tradeable.
Moving steeger only saves you a million on cap space with his replacement as morin makes 800k as an example. The blue line seems most likely since they have multiple prospects seemingly ready to play 5 or 6 defenseman min. Realize too if they move johnny they could always require a 4 at the deadline. It makes the most sense.

southernbeardown54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 09:13 AM
  #96
BobbyJet
HFB Partner
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbeardown54 View Post
Moving steeger only saves you a million on cap space with his replacement as morin makes 800k as an example. The blue line seems most likely since they have multiple prospects seemingly ready to play 5 or 6 defenseman min. Realize too if they move johnny they could always require a 4 at the deadline. It makes the most sense.
You make it sound so easy to just grab a 4th dman. I do agree though, that Oduya needs to go to help clear some cap space and retain Sharp/Bickell, preferably Versteeg goes soon as well. Not so much for the cap room (in Versteeg's case) but to give a kid (like Morin) a chance to take over.


Last edited by BobbyJet: 07-13-2014 at 11:46 AM.
BobbyJet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 10:54 AM
  #97
rick hawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 892
vCash: 500
The Hawks have way more depth at wing than they do on defense. You would think that Bowman would prefer to make his move with that in mind.

rick hawk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 05:47 PM
  #98
southernbeardown54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
You make it sound so easy to just grab a 4th dman. I do agree though, that Oduya needs to go to help clear some cap space and retain Sharp/Bickell, preferably Versteeg goes soon as well. Not so much for the cap room (in Versteeg's case) but to give a kid (like Morin) a chance to take over.
They have no easy decisions but they picked up that number four a couple years ago and usually moves can be made at the deadline there. Someone has to go. It seems the least bad choice. Moving steeger still requires another move anyways. Although I am not against Kane light turnover machine heading someplace else.

southernbeardown54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 06:56 PM
  #99
puterwiz53
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
vCash: 500
I still think Sharpie should be the one moved and good chance a team wanting him bad enough will also take Versteeg & Rosy. Saad can take Sharpies spot and move Morin up to 2nd line with Richards & Kane. Morin should be given an opportunity in the top six unless you keep Bickell in the top six.

puterwiz53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2014, 07:18 PM
  #100
bwana63
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chi western burbs
Posts: 317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puterwiz53 View Post
I still think Sharpie should be the one moved and good chance a team wanting him bad enough will also take Versteeg & Rosy. Saad can take Sharpies spot and move Morin up to 2nd line with Richards & Kane. Morin should be given an opportunity in the top six unless you keep Bickell in the top six.
No, you don't put Bickell in the top 6. Until the playoffs, anyway.

You have a point w/Sharp. He's still an outstanding forward. But I don't think any team would take Rosy & Versteeg to get him. One of those two, I can see, but not both. While that would definitely help with our forthcoming cap crunch, launching Sharp this season really hurts our chances at the Cup. And this season is our best shot in the next two and possibly three. Can't do it.

But, yeah, Morin should be in the Top 6 at some point.

bwana63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.