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Is there any chance the Rangers can trade for a true #1?

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Old
07-10-2014, 12:31 PM
  #151
Fletch
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The cap structure makes it awfully difficult for teams to become/remain dominant. I fear our friend bernmeister is stuck in the 80's and thinks its possible to build a dynasty in this day and age.

I won't even mention his wild trade proposals which would set the team back many, many years.
This is why we are seeing those crazy multi-year deals. Teams hoping the cap is $80MM in a couple, two-three, years and their 30 year olds making $8-10MM, who are their core and still our among the great players, are signed to reasonable contracts around which they can build a team while grooming the new crop of players and doing it again. Yea, that's tough. I've seen some proposals. All you can do is either blow it up and have two lines with really expensive guys and two lines you'll never want to roll, and perhaps 1 1/2 defensive pairings, or spread it out with lesser players and try to win games with good defense and outscoring the bottom two lines by more than the top two lines get outscored (that wins, right?).

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07-10-2014, 12:44 PM
  #152
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If there is a young center I'd target, I think it would be Eberle. His speed would really work well with AV and I hear he's a pretty good player too

I'd have to be quite an offer though so doubt we could get him even if he was available (I recall him be in the rumor mill last season).

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07-10-2014, 12:47 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
If there is a young center I'd target, I think it would be Eberle. His speed would really work well with AV and I hear he's a pretty good player too

I'd have to be quite an offer though so doubt we could get him even if he was available (I recall him be in the rumor mill last season).
He transitioned to a winger, makes too much money, and I'd rather have Brassard than Eberle center our 2nd line.

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07-10-2014, 01:59 PM
  #154
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I love Evander Kane's talent level. I know he played Center in Juniors. I would love to get him. I would do Marc Staal and JT Miller

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07-10-2014, 02:04 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
I love Evander Kane's talent level. I know he played Center in Juniors. I would love to get him. I would do Marc Staal and JT Miller
I don't want a guy that hasn't played center in 5 years. He would also cost too much. Kadri really would be an ideal option.

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07-10-2014, 02:22 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
I love Evander Kane's talent level. I know he played Center in Juniors. I would love to get him. I would do Marc Staal and JT Miller
Awful.

No thanks.

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07-10-2014, 03:00 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
I don't want a guy that hasn't played center in 5 years. He would also cost too much. Kadri really would be an ideal option.
This guy gets it. We would have to do Brass, 2nd rounder, and maybe a center prospect. It might seem like an over payment but they need centers just like the Rangers. As excited as I get at the Idea I know it wont happen ;_;

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07-11-2014, 03:42 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by xChrisTilDeathx View Post
first line center average about 80 points a season. Steps never come close to that
Claude Giroux:

Age 22 - 42gm, 34p
Age 23 - 82gm, 47p
Age 24 - 77gm, 93p
Age 25 - 48gm, 48p
Age 26 - 82gm, 86p

Derek Stepan:

Age 20 - 82gm, 45p
Age 21 - 82gm, 51p
Age 22 - 48gm, 44p
Age 23 - 82gm, 57p

Derek Stepan is now scoring better than Claude Giroux at the same age. Some people need to realize a 24-year old center still has time to develop. When Giroux played as a 24-year old, he had his break-out year with 93 points. I am not saying Stepan will have the same amount of points, but it's possible. So far, he's following a similar path. Give him time.

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07-11-2014, 05:52 AM
  #159
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I really don't get the Stepan hate. Literally it's been since he was drafted. Are people that mad we didn't draft Petrov?

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07-11-2014, 06:08 AM
  #160
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With Boston's cap crunch and Julien's baffling tendency to use Krejci as his #1, we might be able to pry Bergeron from them. Bergeron, a top-5 center with an amazing contract.

In my scenario we trade Nash (50% retained), and Stepan (33% retained) for Bergeron and Söderberg. This gives Bergeron an effective cap hit of $10.4M/year until 2017-18 and Söderberg an effective cap hit of $2M for 2014-15, which they are both well worth.

Boston gets premium players for very cheap in their crunch year (2014-15) so that they can keep their team together long term and afford extensions to Krejci/Stepan/Hamilton/Krug/Smith.

We get a top-5 center signed long term and a good scoring forward. We either have to give Kreider a bridge deal and Brassard a 1-year contract or trade Brassard and replace him with Ribeiro to make it fit, but if we can get Bergeron we should do everything in our power to make it happen.

Quote:
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Patrice Bergeron ($6.500m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.300m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.250m)
Carl Soderberg ($1.008m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Chris Mueller ($0.600m)
Chris Bourque ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($4.500m)
John Moore ($1.000m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Matt Hunwick ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (7.12% of upper limit)
Rick Nash ($3.900m—50.00%)
Derek Stepan ($1.015m—33.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,634,750; BONUSES: $445,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $365,250

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Old
07-11-2014, 06:47 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
With Boston's cap crunch and Julien's baffling tendency to use Krejci as his #1, we might be able to pry Bergeron from them. Bergeron, a top-5 center with an amazing contract.

In my scenario we trade Nash (50% retained), and Stepan (33% retained) for Bergeron and Söderberg. This gives Bergeron an effective cap hit of $10.4M/year until 2017-18 and Söderberg an effective cap hit of $2M for 2014-15, which they are both well worth.

Boston gets premium players for very cheap in their crunch year (2014-15) so that they can keep their team together long term and afford extensions to Krejci/Stepan/Hamilton/Krug/Smith.

We get a top-5 center signed long term and a good scoring forward. We either have to give Kreider a bridge deal and Brassard a 1-year contract or trade Brassard and replace him with Ribeiro to make it fit, but if we can get Bergeron we should do everything in our power to make it happen.
Why though? This is making a trade just to make a trade and we could get a lot more for Stepan and Nash especially if we're retaining salary.

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07-11-2014, 07:03 AM
  #162
Fletch
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Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Claude Giroux:

Age 22 - 42gm, 34p
Age 23 - 82gm, 47p
Age 24 - 77gm, 93p
Age 25 - 48gm, 48p
Age 26 - 82gm, 86p

Derek Stepan:

Age 20 - 82gm, 45p
Age 21 - 82gm, 51p
Age 22 - 48gm, 44p
Age 23 - 82gm, 57p

Derek Stepan is now scoring better than Claude Giroux at the same age. Some people need to realize a 24-year old center still has time to develop. When Giroux played as a 24-year old, he had his break-out year with 93 points. I am not saying Stepan will have the same amount of points, but it's possible. So far, he's following a similar path. Give him time.
It also depends on how your linemates do. Giroux racked up 65 assists a couple seasons ago, 32 of which were on the PP. Does Stepan have guys around him to get to a massive amount of assists on the ES and PP? The Rangers don't have a Simmons type to bang home a ton of goals from in front of the net. But, if Nash can be a 35-40 goal guy and Kreider a 25 goal guy and Boyle scores a couple extra from the point and Stepan pots a few more goals, you could easily see Stepan with more than 70 points this season. I'll take that from him.

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07-11-2014, 07:13 AM
  #163
Blue Blooded
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
Why though? This is making a trade just to make a trade and we could get a lot more for Stepan and Nash especially if we're retaining salary.
Because I currently consider Bergeron tied for 3rd best center in the league with Toews, and if we have any shot at acquiring him we should take it.

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07-11-2014, 07:39 AM
  #164
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There is absolutely no way the Bruins trade Bergeron. Not taking his plus minus or points into account. Look at the guys zone starts, his qual-comp and then look at his CF alongside his faceoff %. The guy is extremely valuable and a dominant center. He is 20 points away from being called a "True number 1" by the masses, but Bergeron is an MVP caliber center imo.

As far as the Rangers getting a legit player at center, I think that it is definitely possible, and if that would require moving Brassard and JMoore in a package, then I am all for it. Those centers come at higher cap hits, and teams want value in trades. If a package of Brassard, JMoore and prospect is enough to get a top tier center, then the team has to pull the trigger.

A lot will come down to the player the Rangers acquire at forward later this off season since they do need another top 9 forward. The Rangers also have a stacked defense, and while JMoore can redeem himself by putting on some muscle mass and getting back to how he played under Torts, the Rangers have replaceable assets that can step in seamlessly, whether thats Allen or Skjei, or another defenseman like Hunwick who'll need sheltered minutes like JMoore.

Right now, I think the Rangers make a move to get another forward and see how the center ice position plays out. Could be that Lindberg or Miller do really well in the 3rd C role, or Brassard finally plays a consistent game while going up against an elevated qual comp.

Too many unknowns to try and make drastic changes now but the following factors should decide how the team proceeds:

1. Brassard's contract... short term vs long term in conjunction with AAV.

2. Brassard's performance having to go upgainst top pair or top 4 D every shift and the other team's top 6 forward units.

Remember the guys never been a part of a winning or productive equation in such circumstances. He has to prove that he can step up and handle the role. Thus far in his career that hasn't been the case.

3. Does Miller or Lindberg take a 3rd line C role and play well?

The Rangers have wingers to supplement them on the 3rd line, but defensive zone coverage, faceoffs, the ability to play a checking role. Or does DMoore have to fill the role because the kids can't?

4. Team scoring. The Rangers will need points from their no 2 center.

Very few teams are considered contenders with a no 2 center scoring 40 something points. CHI is an anomaly because Kane gets 70-90 points, and Sharp and Hossa is a 30-30 guy on their 2nd line.

If the Rangers are on the plus side of those 4 factors then they don't make a move for a legitimate top 6 center. If they are not, then you can bet the Rangers will move roster and depth assets to get a player that can play center.

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Old
07-11-2014, 04:55 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Because I currently consider Bergeron tied for 3rd best center in the league with Toews, and if we have any shot at acquiring him we should take it.
Crosby Malkin and Stamkos are easily better than Bergeron and an emotionless robot with a 10.5 million caphit

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07-15-2014, 10:39 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Firstly,

No there is no chance.

What you mean with true No 1 center, I am not sure there are 15 of them in the league right now (we are kind of inbetween generations). We have like the top guys, Malkin, Sid, Toews and Kopitar; then a group behind them on a quite a wide scale but who still IMO are true No 1s in that sense, Hank Z, Dats, Getzlaf, Nik Bäckström, Mikko Koivu (?), Seguin and a few others. Then you have the kids who are established but maybe not there yet (Matt Duchene, Ryan Johansen and co), and the centers who may be good but not "true No 1s" in that sense IMO at least, Filpulla, Bergeron (he may be clutch as hell, and so forth, but he only scores 60 pts on a helluva team); and the over-the-hill guys who of some will score a lot of pts but never hold up that level over a season + PO (Thornton, Lecav, Spezza, Dats (?) and co).

I mean of the true true No 1 centers, we are just not getting one of them in a trade. We might have had some room before the Nash trade, but its perfectly possible someone never would have become available either.

Secondly,

We don't need a true No 1 to win. We need a few things as a team, all those things don't have to come from one guy.


Well stated. A combo of these 2 posts are spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman;87648109[B
]I prefer to get a center similar to Stepan. [/B]Have a 1a/1b combo like Boston does. Brassard on the 3rd line and we're golden
We already have him in Brassard. He just needs to keep getting better, meaning more consistent. He needs to be our 2c and JT needs to step it up and fill Brassard's 3c role last year, and we'll be status quo. It's a lot to ask, but certainly AV will expect as much. Getting a player similar to Stepan would make it easier though. Just not likely.


Last edited by Larrybiv: 07-15-2014 at 10:51 AM.
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Old
07-15-2014, 10:56 AM
  #167
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i dont like what la did to our center men in the finals. crapped on them.

and im not sure boston would have done much different had we played them and if they had been healthy. they are big and physical and beat you down.

we are small up the middle. we arent particularly fast and i wouldnt call any of our center men dynamic and dangerous. they are very blue collar types. not bad mind you, but in an av system based upon tempo and puck possession, they arent ideal.

jt miller has good size and wheels but hes an unknown.

at times last season derek stepan was down right invisible. thats scares me.

i would like some more size or some jet speed up the middle and i would feel alot better. until then, i say we will struggle against bigger and faster teams. just like last season.

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07-15-2014, 01:44 PM
  #168
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at times last season derek stepan was down right invisible. thats scares me.
Stepan was dominant in the second half of the season

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07-15-2014, 03:06 PM
  #169
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It seems like I see this question every single offseason for the past 8 years I've lurked here. Is our center depth in question? Absolutely. Is it possible that Steps, Brassard,Moore, and Miller not good enough? Of course there is.

However, I really think we should at least just give it a shot and see what happens. It seems like the Rangers always look for that one #1 center, and it never ends up panning out that way. Let's save some cap space, watch the season unfold, and maybe we can grab someone from a desperate team that's disappoints early. It can't be much worse than watching another big name crash and burn here.

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