HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Trottier vs Forsberg

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-21-2014, 10:51 AM
  #1
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,463
vCash: 500
Trottier vs Forsberg

Who was better?

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 10:51 AM
  #2
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 24,614
vCash: 500
More parameters, please.

Trebek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 10:54 AM
  #3
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,463
vCash: 500
Overall who was better taking into consideration all aspects of their games

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 10:54 AM
  #4
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalupa Batman View Post
More parameters, please.
This.

But my gut hunch gives Forsberg the nod based on creativity. Strip each of their supporting casts away and both players were quite similar in terms of all around impact. Forsberg's skill was draw-dropping at times though, hence the slight edge due to pure artistic brilliance. Either player could lead my team any day.

Boxscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 10:58 AM
  #5
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,463
vCash: 500
That's true but if forsberg was the number one center instead of trottier on the isles dynasty teams u thing bossy still gets 50 in 50 or they win 19 consecutive playoff series?

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:01 AM
  #6
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
That's true but if forsberg was the number one center instead of trottier on the isles dynasty teams u thing bossy still gets 50 in 50 or they win 19 consecutive playoff series?
Yes. Reason being, Forsberg was a better pure passer than Trottier and Bossy was one of the greatest shooters in NHL history.

Boxscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:10 AM
  #7
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,495
vCash: 500
Offensively, Forsberg > Trottier. Defensively, Forsberg <<< Trottier. Longevity, Forsberg <<< Trottier. At the peak they are comparable.

I take Trottier over Forsberg rather easily.

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:10 AM
  #8
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 35,889
vCash: 500
Neither was a paragon of good health, but Forsberg was especially prone to playing fragmented seasons.

tarheelhockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:13 AM
  #9
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,100
vCash: 500
Trottier. Better goal scorer, better defensively and more physically punishing.

Forsberg is probably the most similar player to Trottier since, though..


Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
That's true but if forsberg was the number one center instead of trottier on the isles dynasty teams u thing bossy still gets 50 in 50 or they win 19 consecutive playoff series?
I think that Bossy still gets 50 in 50.. Forsberg was a great playmaker.

The 19 straight playoff series I'm not as sure about. The Isles didn't have a Joe Sakic on the team to take over when Forsberg was hurt in the playoffs.

Meanwhile Trottier scored a point in 27 straight playoff games during the 1980-82 part of the Isles dynasty.


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 07-21-2014 at 11:20 AM.
BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:17 AM
  #10
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,491
vCash: 500
Very comparable players. Any perceived differences in their actual skills shouldbe small...IMO, Forsberg was generally superior offensively, while Trottier was more physical and better defensively.

Ultimately, Trottier enjoyed more team success, and lasted a lot longer in this league. With their "primes" being so close, I'd give the nod to Trottier.

A part of me wonders how Trottier would have held up in Forsberg's NHL...but, in the end, Trottier had the longer career.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:31 AM
  #11
Copmuter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 987
vCash: 500
Trottier's production was cut in half at the age of 32

What happened?

Copmuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:45 AM
  #12
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Offensively, Forsberg > Trottier. Defensively, Forsberg <<< Trottier. Longevity, Forsberg <<< Trottier. At the peak they are comparable.

I take Trottier over Forsberg rather easily.
Not that I disagree, but the only thing I would dispute is longevity. Reason is, I don't factor them into these exercises. Not to skew this towards a pro-Forsberg angle - I do the same for every player, Orr included. When I compare the all-time greats, I personally base my opinion on absolute greatest peak. This is where I think Foppa edges Trottier, slightly.

Boxscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:57 AM
  #13
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 14,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copmuters View Post
Trottier's production was cut in half at the age of 32

What happened?
Nobody produced into their mid-30s in the late 80s/early 90s.

In 1988-89, the season where Trottier's production falls off, only 3 guys aged 32 or older scored more than 45 points, and only one forward older than 33 had more than 30 points (Guy Lafleur in his comeback season).

At that time, guys were done when they were 32-33. Careers were far shorter than now, and you didn't see guys maintaining high levels of play until age 35-36 like you see now.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 11:59 AM
  #14
quoipourquoi
Moderator
Goaltender
 
quoipourquoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hockeytown, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,069
vCash: 500
Trottier. He's in that logjam of Esposito, Clarke, Sakic. If Forsberg didn't hold out for the 1994 Olympics or had he been born with better feet, he'd probably be right there with the rest of them. But he wasn't, so he isn't.

quoipourquoi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 12:37 PM
  #15
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copmuters View Post
Trottier's production was cut in half at the age of 32

What happened?
That was a pretty normal thing for the time.. no one is exactly sure why..

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 12:44 PM
  #16
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
That was a pretty normal thing for the time.. no one is exactly sure why..
Players are way healthier now

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 12:47 PM
  #17
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
Players are way healthier now
I think that is an easy answer that fits a predefined narrative

Some players work out more and have better nutritional information (and discipline) but you generally aren't in poor shape if you are a professional athlete at the highest level. Diminishing returns set in.

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 12:54 PM
  #18
Tam O Shanter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
Players are way healthier now
yes. I have an acquaintance who works in the Canucks' organization, and we were talking about this exact thing a couple of years ago.

When he started, he said that most guys didn't gain 'man strength' until they were about 25 (unless they came from a background of physical labor). At the same time, 35 was considered old. Since proper training and diet have become a part of life for hockey players (think mid-90's when all the best began playing in one league, and getting paid millions for it) he said that from 18-40 is a level playing field in physical testing in the gym.

Tam O Shanter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 12:58 PM
  #19
The mitchrock
Hunk of Monkey Love
 
The mitchrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,392
vCash: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
That's true but if forsberg was the number one center instead of trottier on the isles dynasty teams u thing bossy still gets 50 in 50 or they win 19 consecutive playoff series?
Nope, Islanders played a strong physical game. Don't think Forsberg would hold up in that environment.

The mitchrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 01:02 PM
  #20
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,945
vCash: 500
Bryan Trottier had the better career.At their absolute best they were probably very similar.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 01:11 PM
  #21
Tam O Shanter
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
I won't pick one of these over the other (not counting career lenght, which is obviously Trottier, but rather sustained peak play), they're very similar and my hockey brain is not close to capable of splitting the hairs, or knowing how they'd do in the same era. I'll just say that Forsberg is the Trottier of the DPE, or Trottier was the Forsberg of the preGretz and Gretz era.

As I think about this, I am musing that perhaps the strangest thing about the two is that they may have stood out even better, or been better fits, for the other ones team/era. Forsberg as the bonafide 1st line center, and not a timesharer with Sakic, plus that great winger and dman, instead of good ones, PLUS having a team that did the intimidating and would likely protect him a little more than he already was (including having freaking Gillies on his wing!) and in that freewheeling era of hockey.... well, he may have played more games, still retiring early due to his feet - and I think he would have put up a phenomenal amount of points, especially assists. Trottier, on the other hand, as tough as Pete was, would have suited the DPE to a tee. He would have been the ultimate warrior of that time, as would have a prime Messier. He may not have been such a points machine, what with losing Bossy, and playing 1.5 fiddle to Sakic - but he probably would have done more for Colorado than Forsberg did, just due to durability and being a little rougher.

I think Trottier would have been a top Selke contender, a Conn Smythe winner, and a 90-100 point/season epitome of the Trap Years warrior.

Forsberg, with his wheels, stickhandling and vision, could have torn that Islanders era right apart. Him and Bossy - phew!

Tam O Shanter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 02:29 PM
  #22
TAnnala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oulu
Country: Finland
Posts: 13,743
vCash: 50
In the dreamland where nobody gets hurt, I take Forsberg.

In the real-world where injuries are reality. Give me Trottier.

TAnnala is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 04:26 PM
  #23
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam O Shanter View Post
I won't pick one of these over the other (not counting career lenght, which is obviously Trottier, but rather sustained peak play), they're very similar and my hockey brain is not close to capable of splitting the hairs, or knowing how they'd do in the same era. I'll just say that Forsberg is the Trottier of the DPE, or Trottier was the Forsberg of the preGretz and Gretz era.

As I think about this, I am musing that perhaps the strangest thing about the two is that they may have stood out even better, or been better fits, for the other ones team/era. Forsberg as the bonafide 1st line center, and not a timesharer with Sakic, plus that great winger and dman, instead of good ones, PLUS having a team that did the intimidating and would likely protect him a little more than he already was (including having freaking Gillies on his wing!) and in that freewheeling era of hockey.... well, he may have played more games, still retiring early due to his feet - and I think he would have put up a phenomenal amount of points, especially assists. Trottier, on the other hand, as tough as Pete was, would have suited the DPE to a tee. He would have been the ultimate warrior of that time, as would have a prime Messier. He may not have been such a points machine, what with losing Bossy, and playing 1.5 fiddle to Sakic - but he probably would have done more for Colorado than Forsberg did, just due to durability and being a little rougher.

I think Trottier would have been a top Selke contender, a Conn Smythe winner, and a 90-100 point/season epitome of the Trap Years warrior.

Forsberg, with his wheels, stickhandling and vision, could have torn that Islanders era right apart. Him and Bossy - phew!
off topic but i still think it is absolutely crazy that trottier didn't win a single selke in his career, he probably would've if they voted on it how they do now though

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 04:29 PM
  #24
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I think that is an easy answer that fits a predefined narrative

Some players work out more and have better nutritional information (and discipline) but you generally aren't in poor shape if you are a professional athlete at the highest level. Diminishing returns set in.
yeah but think about all the players that smoked back then, they could've been in such better shape, there were also stories about players just doing what ever they could to lose fat, i think nystrom used to say he would drive around with his car, heat on high wearing heavy clothes or garbage bags just to get into shape for the season cause he gained some extra pounds over the offseason, pretty sure that isn't the best way to lose weight

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2014, 04:56 PM
  #25
Fred Taylor
The Cyclone
 
Fred Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,125
vCash: 500
These two players are as close to even as any two players can get IMO, two of my all-time favourites, but both at their best, and a gun to my head, give me Forsberg.

Fred Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.