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What has happened to Chistov?

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Old
02-17-2004, 06:17 PM
  #26
Haute Couture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian
Of course there is. First of all none of the Russian prospects speak English, 100% of Finnish and Swedish prospects do, 80% of Slovak and Czech prospects do but none of the Russians speak English.

Second, most of the Russian players at the age of 18 are not as mature as 18 year olds from Western countries, I can guarantee you that. There is some exceptions like Kovalchuk etc but only exceptions. A Russian at the age of 18 is still a kid. Let him play with adults in Russia just to mature a little bit. What happens is they do not have this maturity period, they are thrown into NHL where their priority number one artificially becomes learning language and not learning hockey. Some of these guys feel absolutely dumb sitting on the bench and not understanding a single word.
I don't think that 18-year olds Russians are less mature than their Western counterparts. First of all, a lot of them (not most, you're right) get some exposure to the big leagues actually BEFORE they reach 18 years of age, just as the fact that they get to sign actual professional contracts much earlier than North Americans. And if they don't play for their big teams, they do get some practice with them, on and off, depending on their talent. And second of all, how much exposure have you gotten to North American teenagers to make such assertions? And not like Kovalchuk was the epitome of a mature teenager, either.

What you're aiming at, though, is probably the difference in mentality - which would've been much more appropriate to the early 90s generation.. Yes, a lot of Russian athletes appeared (and still do) to fail in Western surroundings, but the fact that this kind of mentality problem is remedied only as one gets older doesn't mean that at 18 years of age Russians are less mature than their Western counterparts. And not to mention that nowadays in the new millenium we have a new generation on the rise, one that has been plenty exposed to what globalization has offered our country.

And, one last point - you seem to be uncompromising about the fact that Russian players MUST gain confidence in Russia first to succeed in the NHL. But what if things aren't going too well in their Russian club? I know, it's easy to label Zherdev a party-goer fratboy without knowing him personally, but when you have problems with your coach - there's not much you can do about it. So getting out was the easiest way out of the situation - I have no clue why would you look for harder ways when you, quite bluntly, need ice-time to better your confidence.

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Old
02-17-2004, 11:16 PM
  #27
mmbt
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He absolutely showed he can play and be a good player in this league last season. His size wasn't a hindrance, in fact he showed surprisingly more grit than expected. The problem is, you come into camp out of shape and not totally focused, and you're playing catchup the rest of the year.

The Ducks, who for a long time were averaging only 2 goals a game, and while he's not solely responsible, with Leclerc out, Niedermayer being in and out of the lineup, and Rucchin playing hurt all year, they needed him to step up. Instead, he went the other direction.

Just like they played Gerber more while Giguere struggled, they have to go with someone else while Chistov isn't scoring. The NHL is not a developmental league, especially when you're desperate for wins. Chistov's a talented kid, and he's shown he can get the job done, he'll be back, but it may take time. For chrissakes, it's not like this is the first time a talented 20 year old has been sent down. You can't always expect instant results from kids.

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02-17-2004, 11:43 PM
  #28
Haute Couture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
He absolutely showed he can play and be a good player in this league last season. His size wasn't a hindrance, in fact he showed surprisingly more grit than expected. The problem is, you come into camp out of shape and not totally focused, and you're playing catchup the rest of the year.

The Ducks, who for a long time were averaging only 2 goals a game, and while he's not solely responsible, with Leclerc out, Niedermayer being in and out of the lineup, and Rucchin playing hurt all year, they needed him to step up. Instead, he went the other direction.

Just like they played Gerber more while Giguere struggled, they have to go with someone else while Chistov isn't scoring. The NHL is not a developmental league, especially when you're desperate for wins. Chistov's a talented kid, and he's shown he can get the job done, he'll be back, but it may take time. For chrissakes, it's not like this is the first time a talented 20 year old has been sent down. You can't always expect instant results from kids.
Maybe it just has something to do with Stanislav Chistov himself? Last year he played well. This year's he's been given the opportunity, wasn't plagued by injuries, got Fedorov to play beside him. So there's no excuse for scoring just one goal. I know, sometimes you do everything right and it just doesn't go in, but one goal?? Vitaly Vishnevsky has more.

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02-17-2004, 11:49 PM
  #29
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Like he said...out of shape, not on the same page within the system, he was a complete nonfactor at even strength. He lost his confidence, started shooting all the time, and when the coach's advice didn't work he just crapped out completely.

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02-18-2004, 02:01 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
I agree in general with you Siberian but then i also feel that Chistov got done a bit by his team. He had enough point production to have been left on the team and he also was starting to play with more fire towards his being sent down. (for a bit and then two or three games prior he started dropping drastically. I believe he probably saw it coming) Loads of NA players as well as Russians (etc) have awful sophmore campaigns. The "sophmore slump" is a well known phenomenom and Chistov was doing better than lots of other young players have who were allowed to work there way through it.

I do agree that he were sent over too soon but then, since he were here and producing alright, while certainly struggling, feel he should have been made to stay with the team recieving his limited ice time and to work harder until he came through.

Recently his lagging under producing team mates started turning thier games around and I feel that he would have as well. To me, if it were only him who were struggling then of course, send him down and teach him to take this spot more seriously. Since all including Fedorov were playing in a sad and pathetic like manner, I feel it wrong to have singled out Chistov. Especially when there were many others who were young and struggling much worse.

At this point, I feel dealing him while his value is up would be the best thing to do. I wonder if the Ducks would consider dealing him to Los Angeles for the talented yet sent down Cammelleri plus type of a package. Cammelleri has proven he can score and is a true fire plug when given the chance. He were doing well when he got tossed around (something that Andy Murray is known to do and it is the thing he is most hammered on by his players and pundits) in the manner that Andy Murray seems to have to do with his offencive minded young players, even when they are playing well enough in all zones.

Camms were reported as having an "attitude problem" but I see it as frustration. He were producing and playing very well and then got moved to the fourth line and jacked around to see his spot given to a more "gritty" type of player and then when he were given a game to recapture his offence (as opposed to a few games) and didn't produce he was told to go down and work on his attitude. He is a very good young player and while not projected to be as good as Chistov by a stretch, he is a good one and might be a nice addition to the Ducks. Of course, it would take a little massaging but isn't totally out of whack.

Thoughts?
The Ducks would never trade Chistov for Cam not a chance in hell. Chistov dug himself this hole,he was a liability in his own zone and was not producing at all...if you've watched all the games or most you'd understand why hes gone.

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Old
02-18-2004, 02:24 AM
  #31
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punchy's pretty well determined that this is the organization's fault - as if sophomore slumps weren't commonplace.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:30 AM
  #32
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Kidding? I mean, I myself said that it were nothing more than a sophmore slump. What I feel is the the trouble is the way he were dealt with BECAUSE of his slump. I truly don't bloody care mate, he is a mighty duck, he can rot on the farm for what I care.

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