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04-08-2007, 05:08 PM
  #1
kingsfann805
 
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LA Times - Goaltending Key to future

Didn't see this posted today, if it's a repeat sorry.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/hockey...orts-nhl-kings


"We have to get the goaltending in order," Lombardi said. " The whole food chain is a priority, getting a young goalie going in the right direction.

Jonathan Bernier, the team's first pick in 2006, and Jeff Zatkoff, a third-round pick in 2006, are candidates in the long-term plan. But "we have to bridge the gap," Lombardi said.

"Danny is now getting close to healthy, and we won't see where he's at mentally and physically until he gets into a game," Lombardi said about Cloutier. "One thing we've talked about as a possibility is carrying three goaltenders. We won't make a hasty decision in camp and get down to two.


Edit: Thanks Osprey, I wasn't sure if it was against the rules, but figured I'd post the full article for those non-register users (looks like I need to go back and "re-read" the rules). I'm glad that you let me know, and not a mod though!


Last edited by kingsfann805: 04-08-2007 at 09:50 PM.
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04-08-2007, 05:40 PM
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Garon should be resigned, and Labs brought up.
Reality: Cloutier will be the starter, Labs will backup, Labs will plays less then 10 games, and Cloutier will play the rest leaving us with a 2nd or 3rd roudn draft pick.

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04-08-2007, 06:07 PM
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Whatever the case ends up being with the goaltending, I hope DL and Crow are able to man up and pick whatever goalie is playing the best (and by "playing the best' I don't necessarily mean playing well) and leave that netminder in, allowing him to get into his groove; I don't want salary implications getting in the way, forcing management and coaching to give Cloutier more chances to win the job because of his big contract. If DC's clearly better at the start of next season, then fine. However, if JLB shows that he might have what it takes to do the job, then I prefer that he is allowed to stick between the pipes as the starter for longer than a one week stretch. One of the main things the goaltending suffered from this season was too much constant switching back and forth between Garon and Cloutier early on; a balanced workload is fine, but each netminder has to be given a stretch of time to get comfortable as the starter before being yanked in favour of his counterpart. The arrangement that the Kings had with Garon and Labarbera at the start of last season is a good example of how it should be done with one goalie starting for a good chunk of time before being relieved by the other goalie if he starts to go cold; however, such a situation would depend on DC being up to the challenge of being a #1 netminder at some point during the season. If he proves not to be, then, as I said, I'd just as soon they play Labarbera (or whoever his 1b ends up being) as much as possible. No more of these constant shakeups; the Kings need some measure of stability in the net even if they won't have top-end talent at that position.


Last edited by kingsfan25: 04-08-2007 at 06:23 PM.
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04-08-2007, 06:17 PM
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I would hope the Kings would do as follows:

1) Buy-out Cloutier (not likely to happen)...if kept, keep him in the minors as a back-up to Quick.
2) Keep LaBarbara with the Kings all season
3) Resign Garon to a 1 yr deal
4A) Trade for a young goaltender (Backstrom, Toskala, Halak, Toivonen, Bryzgalov, etc...)
4B) If no younger goaltender can't be brought, bring in a verteran (Fernandez, Nabakov, Giguere) and let Garon walk away.

No changes to current goaltenders = no hope for next season.


Last edited by LAKings4ever: 04-08-2007 at 06:22 PM.
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04-08-2007, 06:30 PM
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kingsfann, thanks, but I should point out that copying-and-pasting an entire article is against board rules. Before a mod does it for you, I suggest that you edit your post so that it complies with the rules: a small excerpt (ex. 4 sentences) and a link to the article. Better to stay on the mods' good sides

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04-08-2007, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
Whatever the case ends up being with the goaltending, I hope DL and Crow are able to man up and pick whatever goalie is playing the best (and by "playing the best' I don't necessarily mean playing well) and leave that netminder in, allowing him to get into his groove; I don't want salary implications getting in the way, forcing management and coaching to give Cloutier more chances to win the job because of his big contract.
If he sticks to what he actually says (and he's shown he does tend to do just that) you should be relieved to some extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Lombardi
I think we gotta go into this camp and it's going to be -- regardless of a player's contracts -- the best guy is going to win. And nobody's got that job, unless we go out and maybe make a deal for a guy and say he's our number 1, but right now where we stand, if we have to carry 3 -- and we're not going to just hand that job to anybody. If Jason Labarbera steps up and grabs it or whatever that's fine with us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Lombardi
We're probably going into camp with the mentality of "let the best man win," which often times is dictated by a contract as to who's the number one or two, but I don't think we can afford to do that now. Jason is clearly going to get the chance to be the number one, and he deserves it.

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04-08-2007, 08:42 PM
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Damn Dean tells it straight. I look forward to the day I have a drink with him.

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04-08-2007, 08:57 PM
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Damn Dean tells it straight. I look forward to the day I have a drink with him.
You aren't the only one!

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04-08-2007, 09:16 PM
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2007/08 Kings goaltending situation:

1A - Dan Cloutier. There'll be no buyout and no LTI. He'll get another chance to prove himself healthy. He'll have a short leash. He'll have TWO capable netminders behind him now to push him to be his best. If that doesn't work in about 15 games, on to 1B. You can quote me on this now - Cloutier's potential upside is higher than any other current Kings goaltender. Flame or deny all you want - it's true. I loathe what he inflicted on the Kings this year too, but I'm trying to be objective and glean from DL's actual words what will happen.

1B - Jason LaBarbera. Stellar AHL season and character displayed along the way should pay off with 30-35 starts over the next full season on the big club. Will improve to take reigns in that 2-3 year short term until Bermier is ready.

2 (or is that "3"?)- Sean Burke. I believe he'll be resigned to a cheap 2 way deal so that he can be that "3rd goaltender" that DL has spoken so often about. DL and SB now have a history across 2 organ-I-zations. Burke has also now proven himself to be a better back up option than Mattheiu Garon. Verteran ability wins out over flexability.

Gone - Mathieu Garon. How anyone can hang on to the notion that he'll be (or even want to be) resigned by the current management is beyond me. I wish him well and better luck elsewhere. I rooted for him as hard as anyone. He failed to step up. He failed to remain healthy. He failed to even be consistent. As easy as it is to use the "Kings have never developed a goalie" crutch, it's time to face the fact that Mathieu Garon didn't do what he was brought in to do. A little misuse, a little lack of #1-level skill. Whatever the percentage of those reasons - it's over. Mathieu Garon is Long Gone John.



Just one man's opinion.


Last edited by multiball: 04-09-2007 at 01:57 AM.
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04-08-2007, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Foster
But then, appraising skill hasn't always been the Kings' strong suit under previous regimes. After all, this is a franchise that deemed the Dixie Chicks not talented enough to sing the national anthem in the late 1990s.
And this is related to the Kings appraisal of hockey talent how?

I expect this kind of non sequitur red herring zinger garbage from a blogger, not an LA Times writer.

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04-08-2007, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings4ever View Post
I would hope the Kings would do as follows:

1) Buy-out Cloutier (not likely to happen)...if kept, keep him in the minors as a back-up to Quick.
2) Keep LaBarbara with the Kings all season
3) Resign Garon to a 1 yr deal
4A) Trade for a young goaltender (Backstrom, Toskala, Halak, Toivonen, Bryzgalov, etc...)
4B) If no younger goaltender can't be brought, bring in a verteran (Fernandez, Nabakov, Giguere) and let Garon walk away.

No changes to current goaltenders = no hope for next season.
So long as Crawford is coach, Cloutier is not going anywhere. The rest of the GM's in the league would have bought Cloutier's contract out by now.

Garon is gone. It would be silly for the kings to plan their future with him so long as Cloutier is still a member of the Kings.

If LaBarbera spends another season in the minors, I will be convinced that the Kings don't have a clue what they are doing.

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04-08-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiball View Post
And this is related to the Kings appraisal of hockey talent how?

I expect this kind of non sequitur red herring zinger garbage from a blogger, not an LA Times writer.
It's not a red herring...it's a joke. He's not seriously trying to pass the Dixie Chicks thing off as evidence of the organization's poor judgement.

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04-08-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiball View Post
I expect this kind of non sequitur red herring zinger garbage from a blogger, not an LA Times writer.
There's a difference?







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04-08-2007, 09:43 PM
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kingsfan25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
So long as Crawford is coach, Cloutier is not going anywhere. The rest of the GM's in the league would have bought Cloutier's contract out by now.
Buying Cloutier out would have terrible cap implications; whether they plan to use him as their #1 goalie or not, the best move financially is to sit on the contract until it expires.

As for JLB, they won't stick him in the minors again...

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04-08-2007, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
Buying Cloutier out would have terrible cap implications; whether they plan to use him as their #1 goalie or not, the best move financially is to sit on the contract until it expires.

As for JLB, they won't stick him in the minors again...
Ok then find a Uncle Lou (Lamorello) loophole so they won't have to pay him.

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04-08-2007, 09:58 PM
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Who cares if they pay him? Put him in the A where he doesn't count against the cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Ok then find a Uncle Lou (Lamorello) loophole so they won't have to pay him.

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04-08-2007, 10:16 PM
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Ok then find a Uncle Lou (Lamorello) loophole so they won't have to pay him.
If you could find them like Lou, you wouldn't need Lou.

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04-08-2007, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiball View Post
And this is related to the Kings appraisal of hockey talent how?

I expect this kind of non sequitur red herring zinger garbage from a blogger, not an LA Times writer.
Come on, give him a break. He's written such amazing, insightful, in-depth hockey analysis as "kings need better goaltending".

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04-08-2007, 11:24 PM
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I say clean out the house, I am sick of never having a proven goalie!

1) Let Garon walk - he has proved about as much as Labarbara and Labbs is cheaper
2) Let Burke walk - thanks for the help, retire while he still is decent
3) Let Cloutier start in Manchester/ Split with Quick - Sorry, it was a mistake to sign him, fans hate him, bite the bullet. If he is not ready to play buy out his last year. He will be on Manchesters books this year, if he rebounds trade bait at deadline.


We don't need a lot in the free agent market. 2 Solid Dman and a Starting Goalie put us in playoff contention. Let the kids run wild up front. Saying that, turn our big offer on a dman and a goalie.

#1 - Try and sign proven goalie Giguere to a 3 to 4 year deal. Yes sleeping with the enemy isn't always a bad thing. He's proven, he's already used to the travel schedule and he would allow Labbs the chance to start 25 to 30 games. Our next closest thing to a starting goalie is last years 1st rounder Bernier and he is at least 2 to 3 years away. Plus a mentor like Giguere is something Storr never had coming through the system.

#2 - Bring Labbs up as an over used back up. He has paid his dues, may never be a star #1 but I have fith he would be a great backup that could due a strong run if injuries hit.

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04-09-2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
#1 - Try and sign proven goalie Giguere to a 3 to 4 year deal. Yes sleeping with the enemy isn't always a bad thing. He's proven, he's already used to the travel schedule and he would allow Labbs the chance to start 25 to 30 games. Our next closest thing to a starting goalie is last years 1st rounder Bernier and he is at least 2 to 3 years away. Plus a mentor like Giguere is something Storr never had coming through the system
If Cloutier is sent down to Manchester, but I still think Cloutier should get a chance. Multiball is right, his upside is better than any guy we've got. See though, if we do sign Giguere and Cloutier plays fine when he gets the chance, then what? Do we put him on waivers for someone to pick him up, or do we have the highest paid backup in the league? That concerns me.

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04-09-2007, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
I say clean out the house, I am sick of never having a proven goalie!

1) Let Garon walk - he has proved about as much as Labarbara and Labbs is cheaper
2) Let Burke walk - thanks for the help, retire while he still is decent
3) Let Cloutier start in Manchester/ Split with Quick - Sorry, it was a mistake to sign him, fans hate him, bite the bullet. If he is not ready to play buy out his last year. He will be on Manchesters books this year, if he rebounds trade bait at deadline.


We don't need a lot in the free agent market. 2 Solid Dman and a Starting Goalie put us in playoff contention. Let the kids run wild up front. Saying that, turn our big offer on a dman and a goalie.

#1 - Try and sign proven goalie Giguere to a 3 to 4 year deal. Yes sleeping with the enemy isn't always a bad thing. He's proven, he's already used to the travel schedule and he would allow Labbs the chance to start 25 to 30 games. Our next closest thing to a starting goalie is last years 1st rounder Bernier and he is at least 2 to 3 years away. Plus a mentor like Giguere is something Storr never had coming through the system.

#2 - Bring Labbs up as an over used back up. He has paid his dues, may never be a star #1 but I have fith he would be a great backup that could due a strong run if injuries hit.
Signing Gigere really depends on what he does for the Ducks this playoff. He's reclaimed his #1 job from Bryz following last year's subpar season. If the Ducks fall in round 1, you never know what that would do to contract talks between his agent and Burke.

As for salary, he's already making 4 million this year and given that Nabokov/Turco/Brodeur make in the 5.2-5.4 range, I suspect that barring a Cup victory, he would land somewhere in that mix. So, Anaheim doesn't really have to go up drastically to retain his services. At most, another 1.5 million on top of his current salary should keep him a Duck.

If Giggy isn't signed by July 1, then I think it's going to have to take a monster offer to get him to leave a blueline anchored by Niedermayer and Pronger. JMFJ should be an outstanding Dman one day, but he's not going to be in their league in the next 2 seasons. Blake is nearing the end and LA needs to re-sign Vishnovsky long term. Basically, using up a chunk of Blake's 6 million contract.

If the Ducks sign Giggy, they could move Bryz, but I think he'd end up in the East to a team like Florida, Boston, Toronto, Tampa Bay. I don't think you're going to see any team risk a Kippersoff situation again. I know the B's traded Raycroft to the Leafs and Biron was sent to the Flyers, but Biron was a UFA to be, and Philly was a team that was a contender to get him anyways. As for Raycroft, he had an awful year last season, and was average this year, plus the B's got a prized goaltending prospect in return in Rask.

If LA wants Toskala, it's going to cost them big.... You're looking at one of your top young forwards like O'Sullivan, Frolov, Cammy, or even Vishnovsky. Again, I don't see SJ moving Vesa, especially to a Western Conf. team, unless it's a massive return.

As for Backstrom in Minny.. Don't hold your breath. I could very well see the Wild go with Backstrom and Harding next season. They'd be in the same situation as the Kings, with a goalie in Fernandez that they are tied to for another 2 years at over 3 million per season.

I think LA has to go with a 3 goalie rotation, or at the very least, have someone they can recall from Manchester who can legitimately play in the NHL.

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04-09-2007, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiball View Post
You can quote me on this now - Cloutier's potential upside is higher than any other current Kings goaltender. Flame or deny all you want - it's true. I loathe what he inflicted on the Kings this year too, but I'm trying to be objective and glean from DL's actual words what will happen.
This is a great point. The best possible thing that could happen is that Cloutier regains his form and confidence and provides solid goaltending for the next couple years. I'm not saying I think this will necessarily happen, but I have little doubt he will at least get that chance, albeit with a much shorter leash this time.

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