HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Joseph vs Luongo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-29-2014, 04:28 PM
  #51
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegi90 View Post
vezina is reputation trophy or used to be.
Still is Pegi. From 1947/81 based on the best Team GAA through the Regular Season, Vezina thereafter & until today based on Merit as it was from the 1920's through 1947. The Jennings Trophy created in 81 to be awarded to the Goalie/Team with the Best GAA, Vezina on Merit.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2014, 05:00 PM
  #52
JaysCyYoung
Registered User
 
JaysCyYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: York Region
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegi90 View Post
yes maybe but brodeur not winning the vezina before 2003 was just ridiclous and disrespectful.

vezina is reputation trophy or used to be.
To be fair, Marty had the misfortune to have arguably his two best seasons (1996-97 and 1997-98) at the same time Dominik Hasek was winning Hart Trophies at the peak of the most dominant goaltending stretch ever.

Brodeur almost certainly wins in both years in pretty much any other period.

JaysCyYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2014, 05:35 PM
  #53
Doctor No
Retired
 
Doctor No's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,357
vCash: 500
Let's keep this discussion to Luongo and Joseph, and not (for instance) how "disrespectful" it was for Brodeur to have not won a Vezina pre-2003.

We have plenty of Brodeur threads; we don't need to turn every goaltender thread into a Brodeur thread.

Doctor No is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2014, 08:07 PM
  #54
Iain Fyffe
Hockey fact-checker
 
Iain Fyffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Still is Pegi. From 1947/81 based on the best Team GAA through the Regular Season, Vezina thereafter & until today based on Merit as it was from the 1920's through 1947.
Well, it was technically to be awarded based on merit before 1947 but it was a de facto award for the lowest GAA. There were only two seasons in which it was not awarded to the goaltender with the lowest GAA. In the first year of the award (1927) George Hainsworth had only the third-best GAA, but was only 0.05 behind the leader. And in 1934 Charlie Gardiner was second in GAA, but the leader Wilf Cude played only 30 of 48 games. So it seems that after the first season, it went to the GAA leader by default, unless there was a strong reason not to.

Iain Fyffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2014, 09:33 PM
  #55
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Well, it was technically to be awarded based on merit before 1947 but it was a de facto award for the lowest GAA.
Ya, quite correct. Technically was supposed to be based on Merit but effectively (excl the 2 you mentioned) awarded based on GAA's. The two sets of criteria not incompatible & more often than not complimentary. I chose the technical interpretation which isnt always followed in terms of actual execution & delivery.... 1920's & 30's I like to think of as The Steampunk Era of the NHL. Rather eccentric, arcane.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2014, 10:58 PM
  #56
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,497
vCash: 500
Luongo sure did have some competition. Brodeur in 2004 and 2007 won the Vezinas. Since when is a top 5 goalie of all-time not great competition? Sure, Hasek and Roy weren't around when Luongo started to hit his stride and there is a bit of a lull with goalies that might make the HHOF right now, but there has also been Lundqvist around to compete with Luongo plus a lot of goalies who had really high peaks but may not make the HHOF. Kipper, Miller, Thomas, etc.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2014, 11:44 PM
  #57
Art of Sedinery
Registered User
 
Art of Sedinery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
They're both good, but to me the difference is that Joseph won playoff series by himself while Luongo is more remembered for not showing his best when it counted.

Joseph in '93 with St.Louis, and in '97 and '98 with Edmonton, won series by himself. This strikes me as something Luongo did not do.

(I don't blame Luongo for the 2011 collapse by the Canucks, btw -- most of the blame for that falls on the Sedins failing to score. Only in hockey would the defender -- and it's always the goalie -- get blamed for the loss when his team scored 3 times over the last four games!)
Luongo against Dallas in 2007. The problem is the years Luongo played his best seasons outside of 2007 was 2011, in which the team was good enough that he didn't need to steal any series, save for maybe the finals, in which he really couldn't have changed anything.

And Joseph may have had more "out of his mind" series, but he also had more series all together. Luongo didn't see a playoff game until age 27. Joseph had played in 6 playoff series by 27. We are also giving Joseph credit for things he did in his mid-30's, where Luongo is right now.

The funny thing is, if you just take the age 27-34 section of Cujo's playoff career, it looks very similar to Luongo's.



Age 27: (wins-loss, sv%, gaa, so)
Joseph: 3-3, .865, 3.67, 0
Luongo: 5-7, .941, .177, 0

Age 28:
Joseph: missed playoffs
Luongo: missed playoffs

Age 29:
Joseph: 5-7, .911, 2.82, 2
Luongo: 6-4, .914, 2.52, 1

Age 30:
Joseph: 5-7, .928, 1.93, 3
Luongo: 6-6, .825, 3.22, 0

Age 31:
Joseph: 9-8, .907, 2.43, 1
Luongo: 15-10, .914, 2.56, 4

Age 32:
Joseph: 6-6, .932, .206, 1
Luongo: 0-2, .891, 3.59, 0

Age 33:
Joseph: 7-4, .927, 2.10, 3
Luongo: 0-2, .915, 2.56, 0

Ordered from best to worst:
Luongo: 5-7, .941, .177, 0
Joseph: 6-6, .932, .206, 1
Joseph: 5-7, .928, 1.93, 3
Luongo: 15-10, .914, 2.56, 4
Joseph: 7-4, .927, 2.10, 3
Luongo: 6-4, .914, 2.52, 1
Luongo: 0-2, .915, 2.56, 0
Joseph: 5-7, .911, 2.82, 2
Joseph: 9-8, .907, 2.43, 1
Luongo: 0-2, .891, 3.59, 0
Joseph: 3-3, .865, 3.67, 0
Luongo: 6-6, .825, 3.22, 0

Art of Sedinery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-31-2014, 01:18 PM
  #58
Frank Drebin
Registered User
 
Frank Drebin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,880
vCash: 735
Never been a Luongo fan but he's had a better career, and is just a plain better goalie than Joseph.

Frank Drebin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.