HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

You asked for it, here is your All Purpose San Jose Sharks Offseason Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-05-2014, 07:18 PM
  #651
allworldcaucasn*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bay Area
Country: United States
Posts: 4,659
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to allworldcaucasn*
DW was ready to trade Big Joe but Big Joe has an NMC and declined. So, now it's plan B, and that is to give her another kick at the can. Regular season will be a pro-cess, it could go any number of ways, and then DW will either buy at the deadline and go for if we're good, or, go back and ask Jumbo and gang how they feel now if we're not so good.

allworldcaucasn* is offline  
Old
08-05-2014, 07:24 PM
  #652
allworldcaucasn*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bay Area
Country: United States
Posts: 4,659
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to allworldcaucasn*
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
I'm skeptical, so I'm still pretty certain that even healthier that team would have found a way to lose to a solid defensive team (which they did).

Strangely enough, the team that gave me the most hope was this past year's team (and to a lesser extent the upcoming Sharks team). Hertl was a friggin machine. Nieto, Wingels, Pavelski, Marleau.....that team was just so explosive for the first 2 months (and then the first 3 games in the postseason). For the first time in years, I actually believed the Sharks had a legit shot at the Cup....IF they could maintain that aggressive tempo. The team that showed up at the start of the regular and post season was every bit worthy of a Cup run. I truly believed that if they could play like they did for the first two months of the regular season for 2 months in the post-season, they'd have been Cup champs. Of course they couldn't maintain it.....whether because they are physically incapable of sustaining that level or simply unwilling to sustain that level is almost irrelevant.

Which is why I am more certain than ever that they CAN'T win it and never could. It's like watching a baseball closer throw pinpoint 98mph heat in the 9th inning and then saying, "Hey, if you could just do that in every inning as a starter, you'd easily be a Cy Young winner." But that's the entire reason why he's only a reliever. He CAN'T maintain that velocity & accuracy for that long. Nor can the Sharks maintain that tempo and aggressive play for that long without cracks emerging (turnovers, injuries, defensive breakdowns, players reverting back to old habits, etc.).

I go back to a regular season game against the Red Wings last year, early in the season, it was low scoring, don't remember the exact score. But it was a hotly competitive early season butt-clencher defensive chess match that the Sharks won, which afterwards had scouts commenting on how good the Sharks were system-wise defensively.

I think those first two games of the LA series scoring in bunches screwed them up.

allworldcaucasn* is offline  
Old
08-05-2014, 07:56 PM
  #653
hohosaregood
Drunken Snacking
 
hohosaregood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJforthe1stPick View Post
I go back to a regular season game against the Red Wings last year, early in the season, it was low scoring, don't remember the exact score. But it was a hotly competitive early season butt-clencher defensive chess match that the Sharks won, which afterwards had scouts commenting on how good the Sharks were system-wise defensively.

I think those first two games of the LA series scoring in bunches screwed them up.
The coaches did some genius system work during the playoffs.


Last edited by hohosaregood: 08-05-2014 at 08:14 PM.
hohosaregood is offline  
Old
08-06-2014, 03:43 PM
  #654
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
The coaches did some genius system work during the playoffs.
The Sharks went into the playoffs with a good plan. When Sutter adapted, either TM's adjustments weren't enacted by the players or weren't good enough to answer the adjustment.

PF,
The Sharks only had one year at the top of the league in scoring. That is support for your one year contention. Top being top 3.

LZ,
The tank argument by the informed is not simplistic. Teams can and have gotten those franchise guys later in the draft and occasionally by acquisition. The part of the argument that closes the deal for the Sharks is that they never have gotten those franchise guys later. And pumping the tires on guys who are elite but not franchise will not solve the problem, only mask it.

Bizz,
Tanking to get players assumes that other parts of the org are functional. Some teams get those picks and effectively waste them by not attending to the other issues that go into winning. Pointing out teams with top picks that fail is not a good argument in support of not tanking if the Sharks problem is their scouting group.

SJeasy is offline  
Old
08-06-2014, 04:08 PM
  #655
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 37,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
PF,
The Sharks only had one year at the top of the league in scoring. That is support for your one year contention. Top being top 3.
They weren't top three in goals scored that year but were top three in goals allowed. They were a contendor simply because they had the depth on the blue line that year and were definitely good enough up front. That team had a historic start that ran all the way until they started losing multiple people in their lineup to injuries. Teams that started like they did win Cups if they stay healthy. They didn't but that happens. What was ridiculous was the overreaction to that...and it's only even more ridiculous that a worse team with a much more embarrassing result gets less of a reaction than that team.

Pinkfloyd is online now  
Old
08-06-2014, 04:22 PM
  #656
hohosaregood
Drunken Snacking
 
hohosaregood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,708
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
They weren't top three in goals scored that year but were top three in goals allowed. They were a contendor simply because they had the depth on the blue line that year and were definitely good enough up front. That team had a historic start that ran all the way until they started losing multiple people in their lineup to injuries. Teams that started like they did win Cups if they stay healthy. They didn't but that happens. What was ridiculous was the overreaction to that...and it's only even more ridiculous that a worse team with a much more embarrassing result gets less of a reaction than that team.
I looked back on the threads from that year a while back and I think even LZ was calling for Jumbo and Patty to be traded. It was bad stuff.

hohosaregood is offline  
Old
08-06-2014, 06:18 PM
  #657
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 37,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
I looked back on the threads from that year a while back and I think even LZ was calling for Jumbo and Patty to be traded. It was bad stuff.
I don't blame fans for their reactions to these things. You will have opinions all across the board. My overreaction bit was more in terms of DW and the roster changes than fan reaction.

Pinkfloyd is online now  
Old
08-06-2014, 10:00 PM
  #658
Led Zappa
Tomorrow Today!
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 37,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
LZ,
The tank argument by the informed is not simplistic. Teams can and have gotten those franchise guys later in the draft and occasionally by acquisition. The part of the argument that closes the deal for the Sharks is that they never have gotten those franchise guys later. And pumping the tires on guys who are elite but not franchise will not solve the problem, only mask it.

__________________

Youth Movement! Tally Ho...
Led Zappa is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 12:20 AM
  #659
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
LZ,
Not opinion when it is a flaw in logic on your part. The argument wasn't if A then B, it was if A and B then C. Don't rephrase or re-couch the argument to make your case. Take the argument as it stands.

SJeasy is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 11:42 AM
  #660
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
LZ,
The tank argument by the informed is not simplistic. Teams can and have gotten those franchise guys later in the draft and occasionally by acquisition. The part of the argument that closes the deal for the Sharks is that they never have gotten those franchise guys later. And pumping the tires on guys who are elite but not franchise will not solve the problem, only mask it.
I don't think that is what LZ is saying. I think LZ is saying, precisely, that there are other ways to win the Cup other than tanking. You are saying that the other ways are closed to the Sharks since they have never gotten those franchise guys later. By the same logic, "tanking" is closed to the Sharks since they've never performed a "tank" before.

If the Sharks want to improve their ability to draft and acquire franchise talent, they can change management or hire a better scouting staff.

OrrNumber4 is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 02:37 PM
  #661
Rickety Cricket
Registered User
 
Rickety Cricket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not Kent Huskins
Country: United States
Posts: 28,836
vCash: 500
Is the offseason over yet?

Rickety Cricket is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 02:50 PM
  #662
Bleedred
Foligno sucks
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shouldafiredfoligno
Country: United States
Posts: 38,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
Is the offseason over yet?
Ugh I wish. I hate Summer, but I'm getting a two week vacation to Jersey and Denver for a week each! I leave for Jersey tomorrow night. After I get back, it's less than 4 weeks until training camps open! So that should pass some time.

Anyway it's been a while since I've posted on the Sharks forum. Probably since the playoffs ended. I needed some time to recover from that disastrous meltdown.

To give a few offseason thoughts,I don't believe Patty or Joe are going anywhere. I would be flabbergasted if both aren't here for training camp. I haven't been a Thornton fan EVER, but I don't think getting rid of him makes the team any better. I did wanna clean house after this year, but I've calmed down. I think Wilson was blowing a lot of smoke when he hinted about trading these guys. He even seemed to claim the team was in a rebuild and after nothing had been happening he seemed to soften his stance with an old "well I didn't mean rebuild in that sense". I don't think he ever planned to trade either guy.

Getting rid of Boyle and Havs were good moves. Boyle is near the end, and Havs was too much for all the time he spent on the shelf. I'm glad my Devils gave him a low risk deal though, as I believe he's still a decent player when healthy. This will be a big year. If things go bad, I think it's very possible that DW and Tmac are both jettisoned, along with other possible casualties on the coaching staff and possibly in the front office. I think then it becomes very possible that Patty and Joe are actually jettisoned as well by the new guard. I don't see either being sent out under Doug's reign.

Hope everyone's summer is going good.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 03:10 PM
  #663
socalsharksfan
HockeyNaiveOldFart
 
socalsharksfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: BayAlarmPenalty Box
Country: United States
Posts: 339
vCash: 500
Quote:
“we are a tomorrow team.”
Perennially...

socalsharksfan is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 03:12 PM
  #664
SactoShork
SYMSL
 
SactoShork's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 10,150
vCash: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalSharkFan View Post
Perennially...

SactoShork is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 03:27 PM
  #665
Bleedred
Foligno sucks
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shouldafiredfoligno
Country: United States
Posts: 38,587
vCash: 500
One thing I believe this team has to do at all costs (unless it causes them to miss the playoffs) is to avoid LAK in the first round. I think it's a hideous matchup at this point, despite me not actually believing that LA is much better on paper. I worry if this last disaster might have shell shocked the team for their future games against the Kings. I said I didn't want LA in round 1 earlier this past season. I thought I was actually gonna be wrong up until game 5.

Best case scenario is to either play Anaheim or even a wild card from the central. Then hope that LA gets taken out in round 1. There's a decent chance they fall off this year during the playoffs, and actually go out in round 1. Another opponent is no guarantee, but LA is almost like a guaranteed loss.

I don't think the blown 3-0 lead happens against any other team. This team needs to have a better record against the bottom feeders next year. Too many losses to Buffalo, Carolina, Nashville, Winnipeg, Florida, Washington, Edmonton, Calgary, and teams like that was the difference in not winning the division.

Last year is over and done with, but it can't happen next year.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 04:19 PM
  #666
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,874
vCash: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJforthe1stPick View Post
DW was ready to trade Big Joe but Big Joe has an NMC and declined. So, now it's plan B, and that is to give her another kick at the can. Regular season will be a pro-cess, it could go any number of ways, and then DW will either buy at the deadline and go for if we're good, or, go back and ask Jumbo and gang how they feel now if we're not so good.
Obviously not, since we're coming back with the same team -that wasn't good enough the first time.

magic school bus is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 05:05 PM
  #667
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 37,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Obviously not, since we're coming back with the same team -that wasn't good enough the first time.
I wouldn't say it's the same team but in terms of level, I would say it is. Losing Stuart and Havlat is addition by subtraction as those spots will be better utilized even from within on unproven players.

Pinkfloyd is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 05:08 PM
  #668
sjshark91
Registered User
 
sjshark91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country:
Posts: 26,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalSharkFan View Post
Perennially...
Is that better/worse than a yesterday team?

sjshark91 is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 05:38 PM
  #669
Bleedred
Foligno sucks
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shouldafiredfoligno
Country: United States
Posts: 38,587
vCash: 500
Like I said, I'd be utterly shocked if one of the old guns were dealt. I think Doug kinda pinned himself in a corner by talking that big talk, though I don't blame him for not dealing them. Nor do I believe he should.

They'll be fine this season, but avoid the LAK in the playoffs for as long as they can.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 05:43 PM
  #670
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 37,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Like I said, I'd be utterly shocked if one of the old guns were dealt. I think Doug kinda pinned himself in a corner by talking that big talk, though I don't blame him for not dealing them. Nor do I believe he should.

They'll be fine this season, but avoid the LAK in the playoffs for as long as they can.
If he had the option, he would have traded one of them. Now whether or not it is available to him, it's the wrong course of action since he won't get crap for either of them at this stage. I wouldn't have a problem with him blowing a gasket over the loss yet not being able to do what he wanted with guys like Marleau and Thornton. I have a problem with saying something like we're a tomorrow team and then say we still expect to be a playoff team. Well, if you expect to be a playoff team, why not try and...oh I don't know...win those games.

Pinkfloyd is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 05:59 PM
  #671
Bleedred
Foligno sucks
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shouldafiredfoligno
Country: United States
Posts: 38,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
If he had the option, he would have traded one of them. Now whether or not it is available to him, it's the wrong course of action since he won't get crap for either of them at this stage. I wouldn't have a problem with him blowing a gasket over the loss yet not being able to do what he wanted with guys like Marleau and Thornton. I have a problem with saying something like we're a tomorrow team and then say we still expect to be a playoff team. Well, if you expect to be a playoff team, why not try and...oh I don't know...win those games.
I thought he jumped the gun when he went off about his plans to the press. I don't blame him though.

I'm still confused by his "take a step backwards to take two steps forward" comments. I believe he did use the word rebuild too, but then went and gave a different definition as what he meant by rebuild.

I was angry as all **** after the loss too. I went ballistic also. I always thought the choking thing was overblown, but that last series really added to the stereotype.

I believe if it was any other team after being up 3-0, the Sharks go for the crane kick and finish them. Something about the match up with the Kings

I'm ready to forget about it, but I want no part of them in the first round next year. I'm alright with giving it a go with these guys again. Losing Boyle, Havlat, and Stuart were the right moves in my mind. Hopefully they come out with a real ugly chip on their shoulders this year.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 06:04 PM
  #672
Bleedred
Foligno sucks
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shouldafiredfoligno
Country: United States
Posts: 38,587
vCash: 500
Call me superstitious, but can we please go back to the green jerseys for home games in the playoffs? I proposed this even before the playoffs last year. Those black ones are evil.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 06:06 PM
  #673
corbanSOG
Registered Loser
 
corbanSOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Call me superstitious, but can we please go back to the green jerseys for home games in the playoffs? I proposed this even before the playoffs last year. Those black ones are evil.
Green?

corbanSOG is offline  
Old
08-07-2014, 06:08 PM
  #674
Bleedred
Foligno sucks
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shouldafiredfoligno
Country: United States
Posts: 38,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by corbanSOG View Post
Green?
Teal!

Bleedred is online now  
Old
08-07-2014, 06:16 PM
  #675
Led Zappa
Tomorrow Today!
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 37,003
vCash: 500
Real men don't describe colors as Teal or Mauve or ...... you get white, black, green, blue, read, orange and maybe purple

Led Zappa is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.