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Old
08-10-2014, 12:09 PM
  #26
Mortimer Snerd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
IMO it doesn't really matter what Pavs does he will be a Jet for 3 more seasons. They had a wide open window to deal with the situation and they opted to hold on to him. He is untradeable so they are stuck with him. At least if he has an above average season we get a year of NHL average goaltending. IMO Pavs will start until Hutch over takes him, and then Hutch will start with Pavs as backup until Hellybuck is ready to compete for a spot. I think the Jets are counting on Pavs final 3 years coinciding with Hellybuck's development and then he will be gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
I just can't believe that Pavelec will still be around if he has a normal "pavelecian" .905 season again. It's already pretty much un-explainable that he wasn't bought out...but if he doesn't pull off a miraculous turn-around this year and the Jets still don't dump him I think the response from the fan base will be pretty ugly.
I think that is the plan. Plans can change but we don't know if a Chevy plan can change. He hasn't demonstrated much flexibility to date. How much fan backlash will it take to induce a change of either plan or planner?

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08-10-2014, 12:15 PM
  #27
Hunter368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
I just can't believe that Pavelec will still be around if he has a normal "pavelecian" .905 season again. It's already pretty much un-explainable that he wasn't bought out...but if he doesn't pull off a miraculous turn-around this year and the Jets still don't dump him I think the response from the fan base will be pretty ugly.
Like you say it's hard to understand, but at this point all we can believe is one of two things:

- Jets still believe in him and think that he can be a good goalie with a good system in front him. Personally I think this option is just plain silly, he is what he is and nothing more. AHL skill level, at most KHL.

- second option is that Chipman said no to the obvious buyout option. So Chevy went into plan B mode which is try to bring up or develop a better cheaper option and hope this new option will lead to Pavs being relegated to the backup role until his contract runs out (or off chance someone is dumb enough to take him in a trade). This option minimizes the damage that Pavs does to the team, limit him to 15-20 games per season and then kick his butt out the door when his contract is done.

Business is business, it's nothing personal. Our ownership team can run a family like team but still run it like a business. Often you have to do the tough thing, I hope Chipman has that in him, but this is a concerning example where I question if he does. Heck I fired a guy (who was not working out to say the least) 3 days before Xmas and only 2 days after the birth of his first child. I did it b/c it was the right and professional thing to do, but it personally was hard to do. I thought about that firing for months after the fact. But I've done the hard thing many times and I will have to do it many more times in my career, never easy, I never take pleasure in it.

I hope Chipman isn't too soft and restricts Chevy from doing the tough thing, the RIGHT thing....now or ever....business is business. You can do it with respect, honesty and empathy but you still should do the right thing.


Last edited by Hunter368: 08-10-2014 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
08-10-2014, 12:20 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Like you say it's hard to understand, but at this point all we can believe is one of two things:

- Jets still believe in him and think that he can be a good goalie with a good system in front him. Personally I think this option is just plain silly, he is what he is and nothing more. AHL skill level, at most KHL.

- second option is that Chipman said no to the obvious buyout option. So Chevy went into plan B mode which is try to bring up or develop a better cheaper option and hope this new option will lead to Pavs being relegated to the backup role until his contract runs out (or off chance someone is dumb enough to take him in a trade). This option minimizes the damage that Pavs does to the team, limit him to 15-20 games per season and then kick his butt out the door when his contract is done.
I think this is exactly what they are planning to do with him starting next year. If Pavs doesn't shape up then they will move quickly on to Hutch. I have said it before in another thread but given we have Hutch signed to league minimum for the next two years it wont really matter that Pavs is making. If the Jets have budget allocation for position they will want to maximize that return. It wont matter if they have the most expensive backup because it will more than be offset by having one of the cheapest starters. That is if Hutch plays like he can.

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08-10-2014, 12:25 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I think this is exactly what they are planning to do with him starting next year. If Pavs doesn't shape up then they will move quickly on to Hutch. I have said it before in another thread but given we have Hutch signed to league minimum for the next two years it wont really matter that Pavs is making. If the Jets have budget allocation for position they will want to maximize that return. It wont matter if they have the most expensive backup because it will more than be offset by having one of the cheapest starters. That is if Hutch plays like he can.
Exactly. I can live with Pavs for 3 more years if all he plays is 15-20 per year, rather not of course but I can live with it. But I can't imagine another 3 years with him as our starter.

Surixon on see my post above I edited it at the same time as you quoted it and you missed some of my post.

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Old
08-10-2014, 12:26 PM
  #30
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To answer the questions:

1. I definitely think so.

2. Re Signed after the Playoffs on a 5 year deal.

3. I think we will avoid them better than last year, but we will still have them.

4. Yes. 5th in the central.

5. Nope, I feel Hutch will be our #1 by Christmas.


My best optimistic guess

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Old
08-10-2014, 12:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter368 View Post
Exactly. I can live with Pavs for 3 more years if all he plays is 15-20 per year, rather not of course but I can live with it. But I can't imagine another 3 years with him as our starter.

Surixon on see my post above I edited it at the same time as you quoted it and you missed some of my post.
Just saw the the rest of your post and you are very correct. I find the family and loyalty card that true north is playing refreshing. I also think it can serve to help give us a bit of an edge with regards to attracting and retaining talent as players are humans too and everyone would rather be a part of a positive and respectful work environment. Having said that I am a full believer that loyalty goes both ways, when an ownership/management staff continually goes to bat for you, I think you are obligated to do everything in your power to return that trust. I don't believe Pavelic has done that for us and as such I believe the Jets have every right to move on from him. As you have said you can do it in a very professional and respectful manner but family and loyalty doesn't mean giving 3rd fourth and fifth chances.

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Old
08-11-2014, 11:45 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728036

1. Can coach Paul Maurice impose his values on the Jets?

2. What will happen with versatile forward Michael Frolik?

3. Can the Jets avoid letdown games?

4. Can the Jets improve against the Central Division?

5. Can Ondrej Pavelec break his way out of the bottom echelon of NHL goaltenders?
1. Yes

2. Re-signed for a 4-year deal before the deadline, cap hit just south of $5.0M

3. Maybe? Who cares? Just play better!

4. Against Colorado, Nashville, Minnesota: Yes. Against Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas: No

5. No. No, he can't.

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08-11-2014, 01:19 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728036

1. Can coach Paul Maurice impose his values on the Jets?

2. What will happen with versatile forward Michael Frolik?

3. Can the Jets avoid letdown games?

4. Can the Jets improve against the Central Division?

5. Can Ondrej Pavelec break his way out of the bottom echelon of NHL goaltenders?
1. Yes. After spending whole summer with the team, he will have a positive impact on the system.
2. He will resign before the TD 4 years/4,5 AAV
3. I think that under Maurice's system we have better chances avoiding meltdowns. No more Noel's "wtf is going on" games.
4. Probably not. Although I hope we can atleast bring our A-game against division rivals. Last season against Chi and Min...well
5. No. He will become our backup by November.

I expected a lot more from Chevy in this offseason. Our team improved only a little, but I still believe in our chances. We might slip into wildcard spot.

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08-12-2014, 09:16 AM
  #34
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1. Yes he can.

2. He will play for one year at his highest calibre and then hit the FA overpayment pool to cash in.

3. There will be alot of 1 goal games, either for or against us.

4. No. there has been far too much improvement on a majority of the teams.

5. I have my fingers crossed but I just do not see it.

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Old
08-12-2014, 10:27 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728036

1. Can coach Paul Maurice impose his values on the Jets?

2. What will happen with versatile forward Michael Frolik?

3. Can the Jets avoid letdown games?

4. Can the Jets improve against the Central Division?

5. Can Ondrej Pavelec break his way out of the bottom echelon of NHL goaltenders?
1. He seems to have the ears of most players on the team, so likely

2. If the team is doing well, longterm signing with slight overpayment. If the team is doing poorly, I could see Frolik walking. Chevy doesn't trade.

3. No. Nobody can. They happen.

4. Likely not.

5. No.

Regarding all the extra Pavs talk: he needs to go, plain and simple. He is well into his career and his averages have been established. Any "good" season he has will inevitably be followed by regression. He is what he is and it's not what we need.

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08-12-2014, 01:43 PM
  #36
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1. I believe the team will reflect PMo's desired structure, but it will take time. Likely one more year. Then it's a case of the existing players not being good enough to get the job done. To me, it's two different things. His teams in Carolina may have taken some time to buy in, but it took drafting Eric Staal (2nd overall), Cam Ward and a few astute trades to be a Cup champion.

2. If the Jets are seemingly out of it by January, Frolik will move on. Hopefully Chevy gains some assets if it looks like he won't resign.

3. Not without different goaltending. And a different mindset where the players truly challenge each other to be better, and a playoff team.

4. Can't see it. They were last in the Central last year, and each Central team has improved. That will be the biggest measuring stick for this franchise moving forward. Getting to .500 against the division is a good target, but will likely take a couple of years. Then, aim to be .600. When you can achieve that, you are a playoff contender and may make some noise. But that's at least 2 years away, IMO.

5. Can't see it. In fact, I've moved on to hoping Hutch or Hellebuyck (in a year or 2), can be the answer. If Pavs is even an average or competent goalie, it's a bonus for me. But I just don't see it. He has regressed, and seems to lack the mental toughness, desire or work effort to get to the required level. What would change now? I'm thinking nothing. And he'll simply move on to the KHL at some point.

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08-12-2014, 03:09 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by PocketHoquet View Post
He seems to have the ears of most players on the team
That's gotta be one messy duffel bag.

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08-12-2014, 03:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728036

1. Can coach Paul Maurice impose his values on the Jets?

2. What will happen with versatile forward Michael Frolik?

3. Can the Jets avoid letdown games?

4. Can the Jets improve against the Central Division?

5. Can Ondrej Pavelec break his way out of the bottom echelon of NHL goaltenders?
1. He probably can impose his values on the Jets. Seems to have done it already in large part; at least, the Jets seem happy to finally have an actual NHL coach and eager to absorb his lessons. Question is, can the Jets live up to those values and in so doing eliminate a bunch of mistakes?

2. Not terribly filled with confidence. I put a resigning at about 25%. I put a trade for not enough at about 60%. Walking next summer for nothing at 15%.

3. See point #1. Can't avoid ALL letdown games, but would be nice to see them at least slashed in half.

4. Not at hockey.

5. Please see avatar to the left.

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Old
08-12-2014, 03:18 PM
  #39
Unholy goalie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
That's gotta be one messy duffel bag.
Draconian, sure. But you gotta do what you gotta do to build a winner.

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Old
08-12-2014, 03:22 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PocketHoquet View Post
Draconian, sure. But you gotta do what you gotta do to build a winner.
Amen, brother. My biggest worry would be keeping their helmets on.

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08-12-2014, 08:33 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
Amen, brother. My biggest worry would be keeping their helmets on.
I can assure you that everything about the Jets' helmets is first class all the way, including the chinstraps. I can't think of a reason why anyone would not want to wear one.

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08-12-2014, 11:03 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Dallas was 23-11-7 at home , Minnesota was 26-10-5 , Phoenix was 22-14-5 , we were 18-17-6.

Of course the Coyotes also missed the playoffs , but we shouldn't look at league averages , we should look at playoff teams , and ones close to that for a more accurate reflection of where we should be able to shrink the point gap needed to be a playoff team.

If we think we have any shot at the playoffs , the home record needs to be much stronger . We were plus one that in no way gets us close , we need to be roughly plus 8 or better I think to make a real push.
Home ice isn't worth that much in hockey. I believe it is a 55/45 split on average. Better teams have better overall records. Better home records tend to vary off that.

A few people got mad at me when I said the home record of the first season wasn't sustainable. Improve the team an the home record should follow. Short term, these things vary. Could go either way this year, but fixing the home record is an output. Not really input.

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08-12-2014, 11:07 PM
  #43
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1. Not sure what this means. Probably?

2. Hard to say without knowing what Frolik wants.

3. I mostly think "let down games" are nonsense. Sometimes the better team loses. This was the case in many let down games last year. Also how the Jets pulled off some upsets. It is normal.

4. The could, but they could likewise falter elsewhere.

5. Probably not, but anything can happen in a one season sample.

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08-13-2014, 12:53 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Home ice isn't worth that much in hockey. I believe it is a 55/45 split on average. Better teams have better overall records. Better home records tend to vary off that.

A few people got mad at me when I said the home record of the first season wasn't sustainable. Improve the team an the home record should follow. Short term, these things vary. Could go either way this year, but fixing the home record is an output. Not really input.
Being one game on the plus side is a sure way to not be in the playoffs. No matter how you look at it , spin it , list it , home record needs to improve if playoff hockey is to be realized.

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08-13-2014, 07:49 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Home ice isn't worth that much in hockey. I believe it is a 55/45 split on average. Better teams have better overall records. Better home records tend to vary off that.

A few people got mad at me when I said the home record of the first season wasn't sustainable. Improve the team an the home record should follow. Short term, these things vary. Could go either way this year, but fixing the home record is an output. Not really input.
Agree with this. Better teams have better overall records which is seen in strong home records where over the long term you can take advantage of the few benefits the home team has. The crowd, last change, more likely to be rested etc.

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08-13-2014, 09:53 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Being one game on the plus side is a sure way to not be in the playoffs. No matter how you look at it , spin it , list it , home record needs to improve if playoff hockey is to be realized.
Yup. And so does the road record.

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08-24-2014, 01:57 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728036

1. Can coach Paul Maurice impose his values on the Jets?

2. What will happen with versatile forward Michael Frolik?

3. Can the Jets avoid letdown games?

4. Can the Jets improve against the Central Division?

5. Can Ondrej Pavelec break his way out of the bottom echelon of NHL goaltenders?
Sorry, late on this one but interesting questions
1. Yes, only positive devt but with emphasis on being in good shape & Paul's influence, I see some potential for this year
2. Has a down year from last, ends up being demoted to third line, resigns at an overpayment anyway
3. Nope, letdowns are what they do best
4. Nope, too strong -- getting out of basement will be very difficult
5. He will do better - prob .905 to as high as .915. But as we start getting a feeling we have a chance to make the playoffs, he will revert to his old form, sink to below .905 overall and when we're essentially out of contention, mo finally gives Hutch the reigns

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08-24-2014, 03:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by troubabooster View Post
Sorry, late on this one but interesting questions
1. Yes, only positive devt but with emphasis on being in good shape & Paul's influence, I see some potential for this year
2. Has a down year from last, ends up being demoted to third line, resigns at an overpayment anyway
3. Nope, letdowns are what they do best
4. Nope, too strong -- getting out of basement will be very difficult
5. He will do better - prob .905 to as high as .915. But as we start getting a feeling we have a chance to make the playoffs, he will revert to his old form, sink to below .905 overall and when we're essentially out of contention, mo finally gives Hutch the reigns
Sounds like you can hardly wait for the season to start.

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08-24-2014, 03:44 PM
  #49
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Sounds like you can hardly wait for the season to start.
Seriously, I've tried my best to throw a little optimism in there except for the Frolic outcome where I went overboard the other way.

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08-24-2014, 08:00 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728036

1. Can coach Paul Maurice impose his values on the Jets?

2. What will happen with versatile forward Michael Frolik?

3. Can the Jets avoid letdown games?

4. Can the Jets improve against the Central Division?

5. Can Ondrej Pavelec break his way out of the bottom echelon of NHL goaltenders?
1. Yes. Will he? Maybe.

2. He'll have a somewhat slow first quarter, get injured (and miss 4-6 games), and then come back and dazzle. Won't be traded.

3. No. Every team has letdown games.

4. Yes. Will they? No.

5. Yes. Will he? Yes.

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