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Old
04-12-2007, 01:34 PM
  #1
jimboman
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Cheechoo Injury

Sharks fan here....

Was curious what you all thought about Cheechoo's injury, and what should come of it - especially if Cheechoo is out for the remainder of the playoffs...

Is a Harnetll suspension justified? If so, for how long? Would you take the same view if Kariya suffered a similar injury?

The series looks to be AS ADVERTISED. Great game last night!

Jimbo

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04-12-2007, 01:41 PM
  #2
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Personally, if the league feels that Hartnell in any way intended for this to happen, he should be gone for the remainder of the series, possibly more.

Even if they don't deem it to be intentional BUT feel it was a dirty/dangerous hit (i.e. led with the knee and/or elbow), I think he should get AT LEAST one game.

From what I can tell, it didn't appear intentional but it was most certainly dirty/dangerous. I think he deserves one game because while he didn't intend anything, it was his dangerous actions that led to the situation.

This is assuming, of course, that Cheechoo is out for a good while. Hopefully he's not.

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04-12-2007, 01:56 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboman View Post
Sharks fan here....

Was curious what you all thought about Cheechoo's injury, and what should come of it - especially if Cheechoo is out for the remainder of the playoffs...

Is a Harnetll suspension justified? If so, for how long? Would you take the same view if Kariya suffered a similar injury?

The series looks to be AS ADVERTISED. Great game last night!

Jimbo
Hartnell should get the same that Cheechoo got for his nasty boarding on Mark Eaton earlier this season. So far he has...a 5 minute and game, and there should be NO suspension.

If there is obvious intent than suspension would be necessary, but on neither hit can we be for sure....both are wreckless.

I hope Cheechoo is ok..

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04-12-2007, 01:57 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboman View Post
Sharks fan here....

Was curious what you all thought about Cheechoo's injury, and what should come of it - especially if Cheechoo is out for the remainder of the playoffs...

Is a Harnetll suspension justified? If so, for how long? Would you take the same view if Kariya suffered a similar injury?

The series looks to be AS ADVERTISED. Great game last night!

Jimbo
If it was the exact same play as last night and it was on Kariya by a Sharks player, then I'd feel as if no suspension is warranted.

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04-12-2007, 01:58 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Olaf View Post
Hartnell should get the same that Cheechoo got for his nasty boarding on Mark Eaton earlier this season. So far he has...a 5 minute and game, and there should be NO suspension.

If there is obvious intent than suspension would be necessary, but on neither hit can we be for sure....both are wreckless.

I hope Cheechoo is ok..
Watched the hit... He should get at least 5 games for that hit if not more. Guy was going after his head and his knee.
Clear intention to injure SJ top player. No question about that.

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04-12-2007, 02:03 PM
  #6
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Well, elbow to the head caused the tooth to fly out of his mouth while the knee to the knee caused the limp.

I didn't even notice the elbow until I saw sportsnet's slow motion of the hit from an angle they never showed during the nashville feed.

Regardless of intent, it was a reckless/careless hit. Knees are like high sticks. You are responsible to keep them to yourself. Except Knees often lead to very long term/career ending injuries while high sticks usually result in a scrape.

Even if it was accidental, how do we justify the elbow to the mouth?

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04-12-2007, 02:10 PM
  #7
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Watched the hit... He should get at least 5 games for that hit if not more. Guy was going after his head and his knee.
Clear intention to injure SJ top player. No question about that.

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04-12-2007, 02:10 PM
  #8
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(sorry, it deserved more then 12 emoticons)

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04-12-2007, 02:12 PM
  #9
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He'll get suspended, probably 1-2 games. The knee-on-knee looked to be accidental, but he led with the elbow which usually is a clear sign of intent. When I first saw the hit, I thought it was an elbow-to-head. Campbell seems to be getting tired of certain players/teams and has been coming down overly harsh on them lately. Hartnell and the Preds certainly fit criteria.

1-2 games should be it. It'll rise to somewhere around 5-7 games if Cheechoo is seriously injured because of the NHL stupid policy of taking severity of injury into account when issuing suspensions.....

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04-12-2007, 03:02 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by J0e Th0rnton View Post

Even if it was accidental, how do we justify the elbow to the mouth?
FWIW, according to Brent Peterson (Preds Asst. Coach), they believe that the lost tooth was the result of the impact of Cheechoo landing on the ice. Also, according to talk radio here (possibly Terry Crisp), it appeared that Hartnell's arms went up and Cheechoo's head came down as a result of collision at the knee resulting in the appearance of an elbow thrown. I have not seen the replay and have no opinion as of yet.


Last edited by preddevil: 04-12-2007 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Crispy's name isn't Peter
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04-12-2007, 03:03 PM
  #11
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No suspension warranted.

I didnt even think a major was warranted. 2 Mins for interference.

It was just an unfortunate collision. Happens 100 times a game when ten guys are flying around at 100mph.

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04-12-2007, 03:10 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by preddevil View Post
FWIW, according to Brent Peterson (Preds Asst. Coach), they believe that the lost tooth was the result of the impact of Cheechoo landing on the ice. Also, according to talk radio here (possibly Terry Crisp), it appeared that Hartnell's arms went up and Cheechoo's head came down as a result of collision at the knee resulting in the appearance of an elbow thrown. I have not seen the replay and have no opinion as of yet.


Sure looks like an elbow to the face to me.

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04-12-2007, 03:20 PM
  #13
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From the stills you can see that the contact to the head was by a shoulder, not an elbow. The second one is very clear in showing this because if you notice from the first picture...the Preds have navy-blue fabric on their elbows and the numbers on the arm are just below the shoulder and well-above the elbow. Cheechoo's head clearly connects with Hartnell at the shoulder or on the numbers, meaning...Hartnell's upper body lead with his shoulder and not an elbow like Ron Wilson so exaggeratedly professed during the post-game news conference.

I honestly have no idea about whether or not he lead with his knee. I have not seen a true slo-mo replay and at full speed I cannot tell whether or not he intended to lead with his knee or whether he was turning his lower body to brace/line up the hit and the timing was simply off and wound up causing the knee-to-knee collision.

There was no intent to injure as Ron Wilson is so adamantly trying to sell and there was no "two-pronged" attack either. Hartnell was trying to make contact with Cheechoo's upper body and when Checchoo moved Hartnell also moved to make contact and the knees collided, then the upper bodies collided as was intended. Sorry Ron, if the knees collide (intentional or not) and the players are lined up to collide with each other...the upper bodies are usually going to collide after the fact. Simple physics.

I have not seen a single replay or photo that shows me Hartnell stuck his leg out to intentionally knee Cheechoo. This wasn't some collision from head-on where a player tries to hit someone in open ice and they get deked around only to at the last second stick there knee way out to get a piece of the guy. This was Hartnell trying to be physical and throw a check...late or not...as Cheechoo moved away from it you could tell that Hartnell reached out with his arms to try to connect with Cheechoo in the logo, but missed there and wound up making contact with a knee and subsequently a shoulder. That's why his hands are behind Cheechoo in the 2nd still photo.

It was unfortunate that Cheechoo was injured, however a major penalty and game-misconduct was a strong penalty and I don't believe there should be any further discipline by the NHL. This was not an attempt to injure anyone, but instead an aggressive hockey play that resulted in an unfortunate consequence.

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04-12-2007, 03:21 PM
  #14
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I see all these frame by frame photos popping up, as if Hartnell could slow down time, line up Cheechoo, and throw a bow and a knee to pre-targeted areas.

That thing happened in the blink of an eye. For all we know, Hartnell raised his knee to protect himself.

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04-12-2007, 03:22 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecrow View Post


Sure looks like an elbow to the face to me.
Sure looks like a shoulder to the face to me.

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04-12-2007, 03:35 PM
  #16
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The guys in the War Room on XM102 didn't think it was intentional nor does it warrent further action (I'm just throwing out their opinion as it would seem they would be more objective than anything I could say).

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04-12-2007, 03:41 PM
  #17
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Sure looks like an elbow to the face to me.
They weren't saying that an elbow didn't strike the face. They weren't clear on that. What they were saying was that any such contact that did occur was the result of the force of the knee collision forcing Hartnell's arms up and Cheechoo's head down. That is quite different than if a player intentional brings his elbows up prior to a hit.

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04-12-2007, 03:45 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Olaf View Post
Hartnell should get the same that Cheechoo got for his nasty boarding on Mark Eaton earlier this season. So far he has...a 5 minute and game, and there should be NO suspension.

If there is obvious intent than suspension would be necessary, but on neither hit can we be for sure....both are wreckless.

I hope Cheechoo is ok..
Such a homer fan its unbelievable......

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04-12-2007, 03:46 PM
  #19
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From the stills you can see that the contact to the head was by a shoulder, not an elbow. The second one is very clear in showing this because if you notice from the first picture...the Preds have navy-blue fabric on their elbows and the numbers on the arm are just below the shoulder and well-above the elbow. Cheechoo's head clearly connects with Hartnell at the shoulder or on the numbers, meaning...Hartnell's upper body lead with his shoulder and not an elbow like Ron Wilson so exaggeratedly professed during the post-game news conference.

I honestly have no idea about whether or not he lead with his knee. I have not seen a true slo-mo replay and at full speed I cannot tell whether or not he intended to lead with his knee or whether he was turning his lower body to brace/line up the hit and the timing was simply off and wound up causing the knee-to-knee collision.

There was no intent to injure as Ron Wilson is so adamantly trying to sell and there was no "two-pronged" attack either. Hartnell was trying to make contact with Cheechoo's upper body and when Checchoo moved Hartnell also moved to make contact and the knees collided, then the upper bodies collided as was intended. Sorry Ron, if the knees collide (intentional or not) and the players are lined up to collide with each other...the upper bodies are usually going to collide after the fact. Simple physics.

I have not seen a single replay or photo that shows me Hartnell stuck his leg out to intentionally knee Cheechoo. This wasn't some collision from head-on where a player tries to hit someone in open ice and they get deked around only to at the last second stick there knee way out to get a piece of the guy. This was Hartnell trying to be physical and throw a check...late or not...as Cheechoo moved away from it you could tell that Hartnell reached out with his arms to try to connect with Cheechoo in the logo, but missed there and wound up making contact with a knee and subsequently a shoulder. That's why his hands are behind Cheechoo in the 2nd still photo.

It was unfortunate that Cheechoo was injured, however a major penalty and game-misconduct was a strong penalty and I don't believe there should be any further discipline by the NHL. This was not an attempt to injure anyone, but instead an aggressive hockey play that resulted in an unfortunate consequence.
The bottom line is this. Knee on Knee's are like high sticks. Avoidable if you watch yourself and even if not intentional, should be taken seriously. The difference? high sticks usually cause scrapes. Knees usually cause surgery. So for a more extreme danger should come a more extreme punishment to make players watch themselves more before even getting themselves into those possible situations.

Oh, and about the elbow.



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04-12-2007, 04:01 PM
  #20
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Based on the layout in your avatar, the fact I can still see the dark area of hartnell's number in that picture, and that his forearm is clearly up and parallel to the ice(where is the glove? ) that's an elbow/forearm to the head.

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04-12-2007, 04:23 PM
  #21
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unless hartnell's arm can freakishly bend and expand, there is no way yu can consider that an elbow.

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04-12-2007, 04:32 PM
  #22
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very poor play....you just dont want to see that type of play from either team....if it had been Kariya, I am sure Preds fans would cry foul as well....

i think this says it all


Last edited by SmokeyClause: 04-12-2007 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Edited to show picture within thread as opposed to a link.
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04-12-2007, 04:44 PM
  #23
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You are right, PlaywithGutz. What that pic shows was that it doesn't appear to be an elbow from Hartnell at all. The elbow is clearly down fractions of a second before contact. It was dirty, but those claiming an elbow need to 're-evaluate' their stance.

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04-12-2007, 05:31 PM
  #24
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And in that photo, you can tell Cheechoo was side-stepping the hit. Hartnell was made contact with his knee, but it was not going to be a knee-on-knee until Cheechoo moved. It did happen, and the misconduct was probably the best punishment he could have gotten. Anything more is overkill.

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04-12-2007, 08:23 PM
  #25
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And in that photo, you can tell Cheechoo was side-stepping the hit. Hartnell was made contact with his knee, but it was not going to be a knee-on-knee until Cheechoo moved. It did happen, and the misconduct was probably the best punishment he could have gotten. Anything more is overkill.
Exactly - if Cheechoo hadn't moved, it would have been body-to-body and no one would be talking about it. Unfortunately for Cheechoo, he wasn't able to fully clear Hartnell and his knee got caught. It's unfortunate, yes, but you guys are dreaming if you think it was intent to knee him.

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