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Leaf rights too rich for one network

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02-06-2004, 03:50 PM
  #1
dakota
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Leaf rights too rich for one network

"Leaf rights too rich for one network

By WILLIAM HOUSTON
Wednesday, February 4, 2004 - Page S2

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...204/TRUTH04//?

Negotiations are beginning this week for the most expensive club property in Canadian sports television -- Toronto Maple Leaf TV rights.

The two main bidders for the regional games, starting next season, will be TSN and Rogers Sportsnet, both of which will be seeking a long-term deal of seven to eight years in length, if possible.

The price is pegged at $500,000 a game, about twice as much as Sportsnet is paying for Vancouver Canucks regional games in Canada's second largest English language market.

Even if the money doesn't increase from the $450,000 a game that TSN is currently paying, the rights fees will continue to be a loss leader for TSN or Sportsnet -- a loser financially, but worth the price because of the prestige and ancillary audience the Leafs will bring to either network.

The betting is that neither Sportsnet nor TSN, alone, will buy the 52 games a season. The package is too expensive for one network to handle. In addition, neither has room in its schedule for all the games. Sportsnet has a commitment to the Toronto Raptors in its Ontario market and TSN is loaded with National Hockey League telecasts that air Canada-wide.

Look for TSN and Sportsnet to buy 20 games a season each, with the remaining 12 going to club-owned Leafs TV, which will use the games to market the digital channel."

This is where I think the teams need to work TOGETHER to SHARE their REVENUES... the regional TV CONTRACTS... MSG NETWORK makes millions and canadian teams make a fraction of the $$$. Now i know there are more people in NY which means more $$$, but all the money should be put in a pool and divided evenly.... any thoughts?

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02-06-2004, 04:23 PM
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sandman08
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i fully agree.. i believe thats what the nfl and i *think* MLB does.. a type of revenue sharing of that form, in addition to the other forms of "cost certainty" to use the bettman term .. or a cap in laymens terms lol

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02-06-2004, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08
i fully agree.. i believe thats what the nfl and i *think* MLB does.. a type of revenue sharing of that form, in addition to the other forms of "cost certainty" to use the bettman term .. or a cap in laymens terms lol
I like the idea, but I dont know if it would work without some tweaking. The NFL has at least 4 nationally broadcast games per week, that's roughly 27% of all games that play to a full nationwide audience. In the NHL there are Im guessing about 45 games per week (3 per team), and only the 2 on HNIC are nationally televised (that's like 4.5%) the rest are all regional broadcasts. Now I don't know what kind of national coverage ESPN has, if any, so the numbers may be a little off but you get the idea. Aside from one or two teams like the Leafs or the Rangers, the NHL makes far far far less money from television contracts than the NFL.

I would prefer to see something more like half of the money going into a pot. Since there is a home and visiting team, howbout all teams put half of all their television money into a pot that is evenly split between the entire league? Still helps out the teams without the big TV contracts, but also allows the teams are actually making the money to keep some of it.

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02-06-2004, 05:14 PM
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Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
only the 2 on HNIC are nationally televised (that's like 4.5%) the rest are all regional broadcasts.
Every Montreal game is broadcast nationally. So that is 3 or 4 games a week right there alone.

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02-06-2004, 05:18 PM
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sandman08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
I like the idea, but I dont know if it would work without some tweaking. The NFL has at least 4 nationally broadcast games per week, that's roughly 27% of all games that play to a full nationwide audience. In the NHL there are Im guessing about 45 games per week (3 per team), and only the 2 on HNIC are nationally televised (that's like 4.5%) the rest are all regional broadcasts. Now I don't know what kind of national coverage ESPN has, if any, so the numbers may be a little off but you get the idea. Aside from one or two teams like the Leafs or the Rangers, the NHL makes far far far less money from television contracts than the NFL.

I would prefer to see something more like half of the money going into a pot. Since there is a home and visiting team, howbout all teams put half of all their television money into a pot that is evenly split between the entire league? Still helps out the teams without the big TV contracts, but also allows the teams are actually making the money to keep some of it.
that would probably work too but the way i see it, the way to go is thru parity amongst the teams.. i mean, look at the NFL, last years finalists didnt even make the playoffs, and who knows if either the pats or the panthers will next year.. you never know.. every team is evenly matched and every team (cept for the lions on the road) has a chance to win every given week.. the NHL needs that.. who's going to bother going to or watching a colorado/pitt game other than hardcore fans? what if pitt truly had a chance to clobber the avs just as likely as the avs would to do the same to the pens.. that would be interesting.. if they make the games worthwhile, or atleast make them more likely for everyone to win on any given night and to have every team truly have a chance at the playoffs and the cup then things would be better for everyone, and IMO both gate and tv revenues would go up for everyone

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02-06-2004, 05:20 PM
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loveshack2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Every Montreal game is broadcast nationally. So that is 3 or 4 games a week right there alone.
Yeah, in french isnt it? Nothing wrong with that, but it's playing to a much smaller audience in that case.

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02-06-2004, 05:26 PM
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sandman08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveshack2
Yeah, in french isnt it? Nothing wrong with that, but it's playing to a much smaller audience in that case.
it maybe in french but theres enough fans of the habs across the nation to say "screw the language issue" and just watch.. and hell as a habs fan.. im more used to watching them play in french then english anyways thanks to HNIC lol.. and furthermore, if i had digi-cable i'd have ordered RDS by now but being a poor university student.. i have to spend my money on beer and umm.. school.. yeah thats it.
seriously though, theres enough fans of the team to make it somewhat worthwhile and make it more profitable then one would initially assume (im basing this on the fact a lot of the folks on the habs board seem to have RDS, including those outside of Quebec)

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02-07-2004, 09:25 AM
  #8
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The revenue generate from Hockey Night In Canada is shared equally between all Canadian clubs. Despite the Leafs being shown more than the others. In fact, it was the Leafs that insisted the contract be drawn this way.

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02-07-2004, 10:36 AM
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sandman08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50 Mission Cap
The revenue generate from Hockey Night In Canada is shared equally between all Canadian clubs. Despite the Leafs being shown more than the others. In fact, it was the Leafs that insisted the contract be drawn this way.
its not about HNIC in this situation though
HNIC's revenue should be put in a pool for all the teams in the league.. or have half of it for the canadian teams (to help compensate for the difference in the dollar) and the rest all the nhl teams and then have the rights for the individual teams to be shared amongst the teams as well

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02-09-2004, 01:10 AM
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I thought the HNIC and TSN contracts were pooled among all NHL teams just like ABC/ES

Quote:
Originally Posted by 50 Mission Cap
The revenue generate from Hockey Night In Canada is shared equally between all Canadian clubs. Despite the Leafs being shown more than the others. In fact, it was the Leafs that insisted the contract be drawn this way.
Are the HNIC and TSN contracts not shared among all 30 NHL teams due to them being National television contracts along the lines of the ABC and ESPN deals?

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02-17-2004, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryStrand
Are the HNIC and TSN contracts not shared among all 30 NHL teams due to them being National television contracts along the lines of the ABC and ESPN deals?
I think they are, but I was talking more about REGIONAL broadcast rights being shared (e.g. the RANGERS get $1 million per game - hypothetical - Leafs only get 500,000 per game, etc for all teams,.) these revenues should be shared and divided evenly between all teams - like they do the NATIONAL broadcast rights - otherwise NHL becomes like baseball where you have a select few rich teams and many more poor teams.

Also I think if Hockey Night in Canada owns the rights to Saturday Night games they should be forced to sell them to regional carriers IF THEY ARE NOT BROADCASTING the game - i.e. Ottawa games, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver - this would generate more fan interest for these OTHER CANADIAN teams instead of being a NATIONAL ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN for the Toronto Maple Leaf franchise.

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02-17-2004, 10:52 AM
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I don't know the NFL situation but I doubt they had the drastic difference in markets that the NHL has, so revenue sharing is easier to do. Sure revenue sharing is great for fans but there has to be something in it for those well to do teams as an incentive to share. These teams are still businesses first and their not just going to give money away out of the kindness of their heart. Most of the people involved in TML ownership are primarily involved to make money(rightfully so) so they are not going to give money out unless it makes sense from a business sense.

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02-17-2004, 06:01 PM
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dakota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hounsy
I don't know the NFL situation but I doubt they had the drastic difference in markets that the NHL has, so revenue sharing is easier to do. Sure revenue sharing is great for fans but there has to be something in it for those well to do teams as an incentive to share. These teams are still businesses first and their not just going to give money away out of the kindness of their heart. Most of the people involved in TML ownership are primarily involved to make money(rightfully so) so they are not going to give money out unless it makes sense from a business sense.
Well the NY JETS, GIANTS are a far bigger market than Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Tennessee, Seattle, etc in the NFL... there are much bigger discrepancies in the NFL than NHL imo...

Yes i agree there has to be incentive for the individual franchise to give up their rightful stake in revenues...well the answer is GREATER revenues...

i always think of the movie "A Beautiful Mind" where John Nash and his buddies are in the bar and a beautiful girl walks in with her friends... all the guys want the beautiful girl... but nash says that everyone will have more success if they all went after the beautiful girls friends...

"In Nash’s framework eachplayer takes the others’ strategies as given and chooses his own strategy; equilibrium is where allthese choices are mutually consistent. "

maybe im getting of base here lol but if all the franchises stick together they can make more MONEY and be more successful. Hell the NFL did this years ago and i remember hearing that the NY Giants owner was a big supporter of giving up some of his PROFIT to make the whole market/league bigger. Look where it is now... in the NFL revenues are in the BILLIONS and NHL revenues are MILLIONS... and this all can be traced back to team work by the individual franchises together that made the league more popular and profitable...

just ramblings by me...


Last edited by dakota: 02-17-2004 at 06:06 PM.
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02-19-2004, 12:25 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Every Montreal game is broadcast nationally. So that is 3 or 4 games a week right there alone.
it is ?

how do you figure ?

dr

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02-19-2004, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota
Also I think if Hockey Night in Canada owns the rights to Saturday Night games they should be forced to sell them to regional carriers IF THEY ARE NOT BROADCASTING the game - i.e. Ottawa games, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver - this would generate more fan interest for these OTHER CANADIAN teams instead of being a NATIONAL ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN for the Toronto Maple Leaf franchise.
They break up broadcasts regionally. If the Leafs and Oilers, for example, are playing separate games at the same time, they will show the Oilers game in Edmonton, and the Leafs game in Toronto, and the one they think will get the bigger audience everywhere else (usually the Leafs, but you get the idea). I think they do sell the rights to Saturday games they are not broadcasting, if there is a buyer. An Edmonton-Nashville Saturday night game in January was shown on Oilers PPV because CBC wasn't showing it.

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02-19-2004, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan
They break up broadcasts regionally. If the Leafs and Oilers, for example, are playing separate games at the same time, they will show the Oilers game in Edmonton, and the Leafs game in Toronto, and the one they think will get the bigger audience everywhere else (usually the Leafs, but you get the idea). I think they do sell the rights to Saturday games they are not broadcasting, if there is a buyer. An Edmonton-Nashville Saturday night game in January was shown on Oilers PPV because CBC wasn't showing it.
Well i can think of many times here in Ottawa when we have been forced to watch only Toronto games... i dont know about out west but im sure its the same with vancouver, calgary and edmonton they cant show them all nationally at once... it would make more sense at least to let people watch their teams regionally.

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