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This team a'int going to win anything this year

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Old
02-18-2004, 10:26 PM
  #1
Breck Av
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This team a'int going to win anything this year

What a truly gutless performance. After a game in which one of your players gets called out by an opposing GM as "garbage" you don't come out and lay such an egg.

This team just can't win at home to save their life. It's been killing them for years now, going all the way back to the 1998 playoffs. The only season Colorado has failed to choke at home in the playoffs was in 2000.

We could have put Vancouver away on Monday night, now the Canucks are right back in it and Colorado hasn't scored in 5+ periods. We have an embarrassing home record for such a talented team.

There should be no injury excuses either. We still have Sakic, Hejduk, Tanguay, Selanne, Konowalchuk, Foote, everyone else. It's time for Kariya and Selanne to start carrying a little weight.

It's sad when the only player to show up after such an emotional game is a too-small rookie, JM Liles.

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02-18-2004, 10:35 PM
  #2
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Good time for another players-only meeting...

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Old
02-18-2004, 10:45 PM
  #3
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i still believe this team will win. im not going to quit on them and will stick by'em to the bitter end. this team has played stinkers in previous cup winning season's as well. these losses are just a part of the game. as fans, you just gotta accept them.

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02-18-2004, 10:57 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breck Av
What a truly gutless performance. After a game in which one of your players gets called out by an opposing GM as "garbage" you don't come out and lay such an egg.

This team just can't win at home to save their life. It's been killing them for years now, going all the way back to the 1998 playoffs. The only season Colorado has failed to choke at home in the playoffs was in 2000.

We could have put Vancouver away on Monday night, now the Canucks are right back in it and Colorado hasn't scored in 5+ periods. We have an embarrassing home record for such a talented team.

There should be no injury excuses either. We still have Sakic, Hejduk, Tanguay, Selanne, Konowalchuk, Foote, everyone else. It's time for Kariya and Selanne to start carrying a little weight.

It's sad when the only player to show up after such an emotional game is a too-small rookie, JM Liles.
I think you are over reacting just a little bit. I mean every team is allowed to have a stinker once in a while. Its not like the Canucks game couldn't have gone either way. You guys have a great chance to win the cup and today's performance hasn't made me change my mind. If anything slipping down the standings will just mean you guys play more games on the road in the playoffs, which by the sound of it is not a bad idea the way you guys are performing on the road.

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02-19-2004, 01:39 AM
  #5
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Not to split hairs here, but it was Bertuzzi not Burke that called Moore "garbage."

That was a hard fought battle against Vancouver and it wears on a team add to that no Forsberg and you could sense a sub-par perrformance. I also think that the Avs have no faith in Sauve and Lacroix needs to address this.

I wouldn't say that the Avs won't win anything, they will be fine. If they are healthy in the playoffs they will be a team to reckon with. (BTW I have Colorado and Ottawa in the final with the Avs winning in 7)

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02-19-2004, 02:07 AM
  #6
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I think you're over-reacting a little as well. We have had a lot of tough emotional games lately, and a let down was almost inevitable. It's just one game, and I'm sure the players and coaching staff will do the old "throw the tape in the garbage" routine, and put this one behind them, rather than hold another closed door acountablility session. To say that we aren't going to win anything after a game like this is a little much. After all, we've only been out of what, two or three games this year. We are still the number one team in the league, and I think Dallas is in for one hell of a game on Friday.

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02-19-2004, 03:24 AM
  #7
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Even with your all star squad, you're bound to lose a game now and again.

I watched the game, and noticed really only one glaring problem. The coach seems to be really out of his league in the NHL. I thought the Avs had the right hustle in this game, but they were scored on a couple of times losing draws in their own end... and with the talent that could have been on the ice, but wasn't, leads me to believe the Granato (?... doh!), experiment seems to be failing. I wondered if the Avs would be good enough in net, but that seems to have been cleared up by both the #1 and back-up, but the coaching is pretty much a big question mark in my mind. Do you guys agree?

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Old
02-19-2004, 04:42 AM
  #8
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Sauve has been incredibly inconsistent. Sometimes the team managed to bail him out, sometimes the team took a day off as well.

PURE DISGUSTING effort from Avs last night.

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02-19-2004, 04:58 AM
  #9
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Forsberg and Blake will definately have to be around for the playoffs for this team to succeed. Sometimes a team comes out flat, happens to all teams. If you add poor goaltending for the night it can turn ugly.

Edmonton seems to have it easier against the Avs than against many other teams for some reason.

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02-19-2004, 08:22 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Even with your all star squad, you're bound to lose a game now and again.

I watched the game, and noticed really only one glaring problem. The coach seems to be really out of his league in the NHL. I thought the Avs had the right hustle in this game, but they were scored on a couple of times losing draws in their own end... and with the talent that could have been on the ice, but wasn't, leads me to believe the Granato (?... doh!), experiment seems to be failing. I wondered if the Avs would be good enough in net, but that seems to have been cleared up by both the #1 and back-up, but the coaching is pretty much a big question mark in my mind. Do you guys agree?
For some reason no one wants to give Granato any credit for wins, yet blame him for every loss. Since he took over no other coach in the NHL has a better winning percentage. You can talk about the talent he has, but that doesn't always equal victories (Rangers, Capitals, Ducks). Plus he's had to deal with injuries to key guys almost constantly. You can't give the players all the credit when they win and give the coach all the blame when they lose. I think the jury is still out on Granato... we still need to see how he coaches in the playoffs this time. But if it had been Hartley or Quennville or Larry Robinson on the bench and the game had unfolded exaclty like it did, no one would talk about the coaching.

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02-19-2004, 09:36 AM
  #11
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I'm tired of seeing them lose home game after home game. Maybe we should try to fight for the 8th seed instead of 1st overall? Get as many road games as possible and hope to squeze out one or two home wins, just like in the '99 playoffs.

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02-19-2004, 09:39 AM
  #12
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Yeah, I don't think I want home ice advantage. We have been really cr@ppy at home, especially against good teams ( Vancouver, Detroit).

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02-19-2004, 11:04 AM
  #13
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The Avs have played so many good games and been so close in so many games, this loss is a little startling. Granted they played like crap the other night but maybe this will serve as the wake-up call they needed. They are going to need to do something more than Forsberg to make pretty passes to them for open net goals. Selanne and Kariya will not be able to hitch their way to the cup, it is about time at least one of them has a big game. The defense needs to better clear the crease and get rebounds out of there. Also PL may need to realize that a line of Cummins-Worrell-McAllistor is more harm than good and try to make a small deal that could pay big dividends (i.e. Steve Thomas last year).

Avs need to wake up and start playing like they can and should, Edmonton had twice the amount of shots the Avs made and the power play needs work on. They had better come out with some fire under their ***** or this team liek Breck Av said so eloquently "a'int going to win anything".

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02-19-2004, 11:05 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkboy
For some reason no one wants to give Granato any credit for wins, yet blame him for every loss. Since he took over no other coach in the NHL has a better winning percentage. You can talk about the talent he has, but that doesn't always equal victories (Rangers, Capitals, Ducks). Plus he's had to deal with injuries to key guys almost constantly. You can't give the players all the credit when they win and give the coach all the blame when they lose. I think the jury is still out on Granato... we still need to see how he coaches in the playoffs this time. But if it had been Hartley or Quennville or Larry Robinson on the bench and the game had unfolded exaclty like it did, no one would talk about the coaching.

Nah, Granatos a bum. Can anyone really excuse those horrid line combinations?

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02-19-2004, 12:05 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by st_roland
Nah, Granatos a bum. Can anyone really excuse those horrid line combinations?
I'm not a big fan of the line combinations either, but to sit there and blame all of the Avs woes on Granato is just ridiculous. Forget about debating that, it's the simple truth, period. Last week the Avs put together two of their best games of the year... solid sixty minute efforts throughout... at St. Louis and Detroit. Where were all the Granato detractors then? Does he deserve none of the credit for those wins? Of course then they put out two of their worst efforts since Game 7 of the 2002 conference finals and the detractors come pouring out of the woodwork. I'm sorry, you got to be consistent. If you want to blame him for the losses, you got to give him credit for the wins. If you want to give the players all the credit for the wins, you give them all the blame for the losses. Like I said, I'm not arguing that Granato's a good coach, I'm just arguing that a little simple logic and consistency should be used when evaluating him. Start by explaining how he stumbled ass backwards into the best winning percentage of any coach in the league since he took the reigns.

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02-19-2004, 12:52 PM
  #16
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I had heard that the canucks were doing some smack talking. Anyone know what was said.

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02-19-2004, 01:12 PM
  #17
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It's not the coach, it's the players. They couldn't win big games at home with Crawford and Hartley at McNichols Arena in 1998 and 1999. They couldn't win big games at home with Hartley and Granato at the Pepsi Center in 2001, 2002, 2003 and so far 2004.

I love how we play on the road, unfortunately the people that pay big money to watch the Avalanche at home rarely get to see a good effort. And God forbid the Avs have a game at home that can put a team away for good. They're OK in MUST win games at home, but they put themselves in that position by choking earlier in the same venue.

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02-19-2004, 01:27 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSgirl6
I had heard that the canucks were doing some smack talking. Anyone know what was said.
Naslund: "He got me with an elbow to the jaw..."
Bertuzzi: "That kid's a piece of garbage"
Burke: "I think it's a marginal player going after a superstar with a headhunting hit."
May: "It's going to be fun when we get him"

Some fans:



Personally, I think it'll be a rough game and there will be some HUGE hits by some Vancouver players but in the end, the refs will keep the game in check and getting the 2 points will be more on the minds of the Canucks.
Attached Images
File Type: bmp moore bounty.bmp‎ (40.2 KB, 11 views)

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Old
02-19-2004, 01:37 PM
  #19
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Wait till the injuries..

I'm not giving any excuses, it seemed like they didn't want to play yesterday night but with Niko, Forsberg, Hinote, Blake, Hahl out.. they are severely thin. I don't like what I see from Granato in the fact that he starts double shifting the first two lines and leaves nothing in the tank for the playoffs. But with Niko, Selanne and Moore/Hahl/Hinote our third line could be decent. The fourth line is a different story. They don't need cummins, worrell/hahl/hinote/larsen could round out the 4th line. Their major needs is a 6th defensemen. Skoula doesn't cut it -- my question was why didn't they trade Reincrept for a defenseman instead of Ballard that will be ready in a couple of years? Also for Suave, he needs time. How can you expect him to go in and out and perform solid. Give him a 5 game stretch.. take him out and then give him a 3 game stretch.. You just don't start someone once every month to keep him sharp unless your Florida who has Luongo that stops 50 shots a game and never tires out. Abei is our goalie, the last week solidifed everything.. he made sick saves on Detroit, Vancouver and St. Louis... no doubt.. 100% confidence in this kid.. We don't need Kolzig if we're going to trade anyone noticeable.. our top 4 defensemen or anyone from the first two lines. We need a defensemen who can play offense and more importantly--defense.. I haven't seen Gonchar's defensive abilities but if he's decent, then let's with him.

AMP Line
Sakic/Kono/Kariya
Selanne/Niko/Hahl
Hinote/Moore/Larsen

Foote/Skratsins
Blake/Mooris
Liles/Gonchar

Abei
Suave

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02-19-2004, 05:31 PM
  #20
MileHigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicmoj
I'm not giving any excuses, it seemed like they didn't want to play yesterday night but with Niko, Forsberg, Hinote, Blake, Hahl out.. they are severely thin. I don't like what I see from Granato in the fact that he starts double shifting the first two lines and leaves nothing in the tank for the playoffs. But with Niko, Selanne and Moore/Hahl/Hinote our third line could be decent. The fourth line is a different story. They don't need cummins, worrell/hahl/hinote/larsen could round out the 4th line. Their major needs is a 6th defensemen. Skoula doesn't cut it -- my question was why didn't they trade Reincrept for a defenseman instead of Ballard that will be ready in a couple of years? Also for Suave, he needs time. How can you expect him to go in and out and perform solid. Give him a 5 game stretch.. take him out and then give him a 3 game stretch.. You just don't start someone once every month to keep him sharp unless your Florida who has Luongo that stops 50 shots a game and never tires out. Abei is our goalie, the last week solidifed everything.. he made sick saves on Detroit, Vancouver and St. Louis... no doubt.. 100% confidence in this kid.. We don't need Kolzig if we're going to trade anyone noticeable.. our top 4 defensemen or anyone from the first two lines. We need a defensemen who can play offense and more importantly--defense.. I haven't seen Gonchar's defensive abilities but if he's decent, then let's with him.

AMP Line
Sakic/Kono/Kariya
Selanne/Niko/Hahl
Hinote/Moore/Larsen

Foote/Skratsins
Blake/Mooris
Liles/Gonchar

Abei
Suave
First off in all fairness, Skoula is a good #6 d-man. Most teams would love to have someone like that as their #6. Second your replacement for Skoula is Gonchar? This guy is a number one, not someone you could through out there with Liles. Granted that would be a very solid defensive corps but it is overkill.

I do like your line combos. I think Kono is doing well along with Sakic and Kariya. Hahl should help, I think everybody always overlooks Hahl and I think he could be a big contributor when comes back. That 4th line is perfect, a great agitator line that can help draw penalties.

It's a little late to give Sauve 5 or 3 game streches. Aebi is the starter and he has established that. Sauve has also spent 3 years in Hershey so I really don't know what you mean by 'more time'. Sauve has done a good job as a back-up this year and only has had a few bad games (one unfortuantely was last night).

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Old
02-19-2004, 06:07 PM
  #21
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Hmmm.......

I think the Avs don't play as well at home because they feel more preasure to score 10 goals a game there. Just my thinking.

I don't know what's the real big deal, they have had seasons like this for years, when they play .500 at home, great on the road and still win the division. The loss to Vancouver was a bad one, they could've used it, but Vancouver's a really good team! Besides we only lost by one goal and gave up one....what's the big deal. And losing against Edmonton, well, stuff happens. The thing I can't get around is somebody crying about losing by 4 goals when it hasn't happened in over 2 1/2 seasons.

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02-19-2004, 06:10 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia
Naslund:
Personally, I think it'll be a rough game and there will be some HUGE hits by some Vancouver players but in the end, the refs will keep the game in check and getting the 2 points will be more on the minds of the Canucks.

I don't think there'll be anything there really. Most of this stuff is coming from the fans who are villanizing Moore to be as bad as maltby now. I felt the same way after Vancouver put pot-shots on our boys, but nothing happened. If guys like Ruutu didn't have the balls to fight Moore minutes after the hit......they won't when they meet the Avs next. And the only two guys who really ran each other before were Parker and brasher.

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02-19-2004, 09:17 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Even with your all star squad, you're bound to lose a game now and again.

I watched the game, and noticed really only one glaring problem. The coach seems to be really out of his league in the NHL. I thought the Avs had the right hustle in this game, but they were scored on a couple of times losing draws in their own end... and with the talent that could have been on the ice, but wasn't, leads me to believe the Granato (?... doh!), experiment seems to be failing. I wondered if the Avs would be good enough in net, but that seems to have been cleared up by both the #1 and back-up, but the coaching is pretty much a big question mark in my mind. Do you guys agree?
I disagree to an extent. I wasn't too sold on Granato, especially after losing to the Wild so easily in Game 7, but I'm starting to give him more of the benefit of the doubt these days. It's also too easy to point towards injuries normally, but in this case it'll play a role in my take.

The two faceoffs that lead to goals could have been prevented, sure, but here's the incidents separately: Tanguay beat, puck back to Ulanov, score. Tanguay was taking over for Moore (I believe) after he got chased out of the circle. Tanguay wasn't given the proper time to get set for hte faceoff--heck, his stick wasn't even on the ice when the puck was dropped. The Oiler beat him cleanly, and Ulanov gets a quick back pass to set up a monster one-timer. Not fretting the ref, or Tanguay specifically, but it's just one of those breaks.

The second faceoff was taken by Cummins. Now, Cummins isn't anything close to a faceoff guru, let alone a decent backup for a faceoff, so he easily got beaten also quite handily. The puck then pinballed twice and went in. In theory Cummins shouldn't have taken the faceoff, but even then, two lucky bounces and in really can't be on anyone.

All that said, the Avs were down two of their normal centers, one of which being the best on the team. (Forsberg and Nikolishin). So injuries hurt once again in this specific sense--and when coupled with the bad bounces ended up be fatal in the game.

Can't really point the finger at Granato on this one. The playoffs will be his true test.

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Old
02-19-2004, 11:47 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Footer
First off in all fairness, Skoula is a good #6 d-man. Most teams would love to have someone like that as their #6.
That's borderline insane. Don't know about anyone else, but my idea of a good #6 is a guy that is solid in his own zone. Generally, footspeed and/or offensive ability are lacking in a #6, but he's reliable in his own end and makes good decisions for the most part. Skoula is the complete opposite of that and he is far from an ideal #6. The way he's playing right now, if the Avs don't trade him, he'll be benched by Granato two or three games into the first round. Skoula is that predictable.

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02-20-2004, 12:05 AM
  #25
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March 3 Vs. Canucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia
Naslund: "He got me with an elbow to the jaw..."
Bertuzzi: "That kid's a piece of garbage"
Burke: "I think it's a marginal player going after a superstar with a headhunting hit."
May: "It's going to be fun when we get him"

Some fans:



Personally, I think it'll be a rough game and there will be some HUGE hits by some Vancouver players but in the end, the refs will keep the game in check and getting the 2 points will be more on the minds of the Canucks.
Some random thoughts (while getting in touch with my Inner, Sensitive, New-Age Kinda Guy):

1. Colorado's best response to all the 'Nucks'/players' trash-talk can only be to play one solid, kick-ass game (for 60 minutes) against them on March 3.

2. Colorado's best response to Burke's/Crawford's "loser-lips" SHOULD BE for all Av players to wear special jerseys with "Marginal" and "Journeyman" lettering replacing their individual names for this game. If that results in some fine by the League office, so be it. BFD!

Besides stuffing some jocks/socks/pucks into Burke's and Crawford's foaming pie-holes (in their case, easily confused with certain other orifices) I cannot think of any sweeter come-backs to silence those West Coast whiners (but I'm open to suggestions).

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