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fastest and most electrifying player

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Old
04-08-2007, 09:25 PM
  #101
Spike777
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No question - The Russian Rocket - Pavel Bure

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Old
04-09-2007, 05:41 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10 View Post
I'm in my mid-40's, but I recently watched a YouTube video of Bure's greatest goals, and he is a LOT faster than Bobby Orr looks on HIS YouTube video. Obviously, Orr controled the game better and played both ends of the ice, but for sheer speed, I don't think he could have ever matched Bure. He caught many players of his era from behind because THEY were not all that fast (not saying Orr wasn't fast, cause he was). But I don't think he could catch Bobby Hull or Bure in a pure footrace. Granted, just watching video it is hard to tell the real speed of a player. But comparing them both on video, it looks like Bure is a bit faster, especially with the puck.

But like I said, Orr controlled the game like no one else ever has (well, I hear stories about Doug Harvey, but he slowed things down to HIS speed instead of speeding them up like Orr did). Even Gretzky needed Kurri to feed after doing his buttonhook at the blue line or lateral cut to the middle of the slot. Orr could just keep going and score on his own seemingly at will.

You've broken it down pretty good and we're both Orr fans. I guess I can settle for Orr being the best overall player ever! He was magical.

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Old
04-11-2007, 12:12 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10 View Post
I'm in my mid-40's, but I recently watched a YouTube video of Bure's greatest goals, and he is a LOT faster than Bobby Orr looks on HIS YouTube video. Obviously, Orr controled the game better and played both ends of the ice, but for sheer speed, I don't think he could have ever matched Bure. He caught many players of his era from behind because THEY were not all that fast (not saying Orr wasn't fast, cause he was). But I don't think he could catch Bobby Hull or Bure in a pure footrace. Granted, just watching video it is hard to tell the real speed of a player. But comparing them both on video, it looks like Bure is a bit faster, especially with the puck.

But like I said, Orr controlled the game like no one else ever has (well, I hear stories about Doug Harvey, but he slowed things down to HIS speed instead of speeding them up like Orr did). Even Gretzky needed Kurri to feed after doing his buttonhook at the blue line or lateral cut to the middle of the slot. Orr could just keep going and score on his own seemingly at will.
Sorry but old videotape is not accurate as it cannot reproduce realtime speed accurately. I read this on another forum where people questioned the speed of the old NHL and some videophile chimed in about the fakeout of old tape. If you did'nt see Orr live you'll never have a grasp on his speed no matter how much pre 1980 video you see.

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Old
04-11-2007, 12:21 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
Sorry but old videotape is not accurate as it cannot reproduce realtime speed accurately. I read this on another forum where people questioned the speed of the old NHL and some videophile chimed in about the fakeout of old tape. If you did'nt see Orr live you'll never have a grasp on his speed no matter how much pre 1980 video you see.
I posted this question on a videophile forum and I'll link the response if I get one.

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04-11-2007, 05:19 PM
  #105
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Having followed hockey for the last 18-19 years or so, and having grown up in Vancouver, I consider Pavel Bure the most electrifying player I've ever seen in person, bar none. Simply the most explosive and exciting player I've known.

That said, and as others have pointed out, he is not the fastest player ever. In fact there are many 'elite' players that from point A to point B were probably faster than Bure. Over the last 10-15 years I'd say amongst 'stars', Fedorov, Bondra, maybe Gartner, and others were faster in a straight line. Not to mention many average/journeymen players like Fata, Koltzov, R. Courtnall, etc....who on a given night may have been as fast or faster in a straight line.

But what separated Bure - where he was second to none - was his acceleration and speed with the puck. In these repsects he was second to none. And here is where the comparisons to Orr come in. Orr doubtless controlled the game better. He was able to slow play down to a snails pace, and then go end to end like it was nothing, all in one shift. His puck control at speed was also peerless at the time. Its in these respects that Bure and Orr are similar. However, Bure seemed to simply have both a higher top end speed, and faster acceleraton than Orr. The former was close, the latter, not so much.

Just to throw some more (admittedly highly anecdotal) fuel into this debate, I was recently talking with my Father, who has seen BOTH players in their primes. The topic came up, and despite being a huge Orr fan he didn't hesitate to say Bure was both faster and more explosive. In his estimation Bure was the most exciting player since Orr...but what put Orr over the top was his more well-rounded game. In terms of skating skillset though, Bure was unquestionably better.

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Old
04-11-2007, 11:30 PM
  #106
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OK,the TV film of the 60's and 70's was usually shot at 16 frames per second and since then the film speed is 24-30 frames per second. All video from earlier eras will portray motion as slower than what was actual.

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04-12-2007, 01:35 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
OK,the TV film of the 60's and 70's was usually shot at 16 frames per second and since then the film speed is 24-30 frames per second. All video from earlier eras will portray motion as slower than what was actual.
Nope, it's just the opposite. In general, the more frames per second you shoot at = the slower/more detailed the motion appears.

A good example is slow motion/instant replay. When shot with a high frames per second rate (96) and played back at a slower speed (24-30 fps) the image is slowed down. Likewise, when you shoot slower than 24 fps (16) and project at 24 fps, everything looks faster. This is why silent movies look so fast. When each is played back with their cooresponding speeds, there's no difference in actual speed. HOWEVER, when the mind sees something in motion with less detail or 'flow' (16 fps), it tends to perceive it as going faster.

So, if anything, those old 70's games actually appear FASTER than they really were.

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04-12-2007, 03:58 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Nope, it's just the opposite. In general, the more frames per second you shoot at = the slower/more detailed the motion appears.

A good example is slow motion/instant replay. When shot with a high frames per second rate (96) and played back at a slower speed (24-30 fps) the image is slowed down. Likewise, when you shoot slower than 24 fps (16) and project at 24 fps, everything looks faster. This is why silent movies look so fast. When each is played back with their cooresponding speeds, there's no difference in actual speed. HOWEVER, when the mind sees something in motion with less detail or 'flow' (16 fps), it tends to perceive it as going faster.

So, if anything, those old 70's games actually appear FASTER than they really were.
I confirmed everything you said at dvxuser.com and other places except the last sentence where the filming and projections were accurate so I gotta keep looking for the answer I read months ago.

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04-12-2007, 05:14 AM
  #109
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Bure was about the most exilirating player i ever saw(far from the best) but exilarating?.......oh yeah.


Big time exellaration with elite goal scorers hands.I never saw anyone break from the pack like him and with such panache(game breaker like no-one else).........yet he was'nt the most exciting player i ever saw.

That mantel belongs to Lemieux,who from the blueline in was the greatest player i ever saw.

And was ten times funner to watch go to work then Bure.

Disecting,moving,snake ****,hands to bang home goals anywhere or lay the puck to some one who could.

So gifted...........even Bure except for the top end speed looked childish.

That's hard to do!!!

But he was that good.


Most exciting? an espn kid would probably say Bure.

A dyed in wool hockey fan? If you did'nt find Lemieux more exciting and fun to watch,well.................have fun with xbox games.

No comparison at all.


To be so much more gifted then Bure,wow!!!

and he was........................isn't that amazing?

so fun to watch weave magic.

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04-12-2007, 11:07 AM
  #110
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While certain points regarding Lemieux are valid, thats a pretty condescending and incoherent post. And exhilaratiing versus exciting? Semantics, wouldn't you say?

Thats perfectly fine if you found Lemieux more exciting; given his ability to break a game open while controlling the pace of play he was pretty much dangerous every second on the ice (at least in his prime). But using consideration of excitement - which, as others have said, is subjective - as a metric of measuring credibility as a fan? Rediculous.

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Old
04-12-2007, 01:13 PM
  #111
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Bobby Orr

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravityGrave View Post
While certain points regarding Lemieux are valid, thats a pretty condescending and incoherent post. And exhilaratiing versus exciting? Semantics, wouldn't you say?

Thats perfectly fine if you found Lemieux more exciting; given his ability to break a game open while controlling the pace of play he was pretty much dangerous every second on the ice (at least in his prime). But using consideration of excitement - which, as others have said, is subjective - as a metric of measuring credibility as a fan? Rediculous.
Fastest is debatable, however, what's not debatable is how exciting Bobby Orr was. If your not old enough to have seen him, I understand, but Bobby Orr is the most exciting player to ever play this game. Look at the video and listen to what former players have to say about him. Players with clout like Bobby Hull, and Bobby Clark.


Last edited by alrusso: 04-12-2007 at 06:16 PM. Reason: gramma
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Old
04-12-2007, 04:26 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by alrusso View Post
If your not old enough to have seen him, I understand, but Bobby Orr is the most exciting player to ever play this game. Look at the video and listen to what former players have to say about him. Players with clout like Bobby Hull, and Bobby Clark.
But some people say he doesn't belong in the HOF

I think you have to go by generations.

Orr, then Bure and now maybe Ovechkin ?

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04-12-2007, 04:44 PM
  #113
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I would also say that Ovechkin is the most electrifying player in the NHL and he might not be the fastest player but he IS possibly the best NHL player to use his speed to score goals.

Without a real #1 center, Ovechkin still managed to get 98 goals in two NHL seasons.And he's only getting better.Could you guys imagine how many goals he'd get with a player like Crosby,Spezza or Thornton as his center?

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Old
04-15-2007, 09:14 PM
  #114
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Bobby Orr

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