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Why is Patrick Kane behind Voracek in the 2007 draft?

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Old
04-16-2007, 06:46 PM
  #26
slade
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Originally Posted by ReLyT View Post
Stats for this playoff are really bad to go by... I've watched Kane play a bunch of time slive this year... he is scared out there in the playoff... Gagner on the other hand is working his can off. Kane is still getting the points because of his icetime. He also got a star last night which is crap cause he stunk up the house... im a season ticket holder and die hard knights fan and I don't think Kane should be a first overall pick, there is a few bettwer in this draft (Voracek, Couture)
interesting perception. now while kane does obviously favor the offensive zone- his playing style is that of a dynamic scorer. it is his point. defenseman dont know what to do against him because he can equally rip a shot, saucer a pass, or deke you out of your pants. the kids got more moves than an orphan.

if dale wanted him grinding it out he would be centering more often and it would be more crucial for him to backcheck.





i dont remember a more exciting junior player in quite some time.

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04-16-2007, 07:07 PM
  #27
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what is it with the knights. they have had A LOT of great prospects the last 10 years. when the old one's leave for the nhl there is allways someone new to take their place.

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04-16-2007, 07:16 PM
  #28
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good scouting core

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Old
04-16-2007, 08:24 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ReLyT View Post
Kane skates one way... is scared along the boards... is disappearing in the playoffs...
he now leads the O in playoff scoring.


im douting you watch the knights as much as you claim.

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04-16-2007, 11:45 PM
  #30
ISS Hockey
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Originally Posted by ThuGz View Post
Statistically Patrick Kane is by far superior to Voracek.

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
London Knights OHL 58 62 83 145 52


Voracek
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
2006-07 Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 59 23 63 86 26

Are there any major differences from these players other than the stats? Talent-wise?
Well, since we have Voracek ahead of Kane in our April rankings, I'll take the liberty of answering this.

The short answer: We think Voracek will be a better player at the NHL level in five years.

That's what we're doing. We're not predicting who will be the No. 1 pick. We're not grading the players performance this year. We're factoring everything into an evaluation and projecting who we think will be the best players in the NHL in five years and beyond.

Five years, is just a ballpark figure because at the age of 23, most NHLers have hit their stride and begun to contribute. There will still be development after that, of course, but it's just a question of experience at that point. By 23, players have finished maturing physically.

As for some of the reasons why we rank Voracek ahead of Kane despite Kane's superior stats, well there are a couple that serve to explain the short answer.

Voracek is a year younger than Kane (actually 9 months, but in hockey terms Kane is an 18-year-old and Voracek is a 17-year-old). He has another year of development time to catch up to Kane. Voracek is taller and projects to be bigger and stronger while still having a world-class skill set. Voracek might already be the best player in the Q, never mind just the best draft prospect. The Moncton defence is one of the best in the league and he shredded it in the first round of the playoffs.

Voracek has a hunger for the puck and goes after every loose puck and into pretty much every scrum trying to get it. He doesn't need a linemate to get him the puck. These are skills you can't teach and are highly sought-after.

Now, keep in mind, that we have Kane at No. 2, so we're not slaggin Kane's ability, we're merely saying that when it comes time to produce offence against NHL defenceman and NHL checking forwards, we think Voracek will be better at it.

And we are not stating this is fact -- that he will do it -- we are merely expressing our opinion based on what we know and what we've seen. We don't pretend to have a crystal ball.


Last edited by ISS Hockey: 04-17-2007 at 10:02 AM.
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Old
04-17-2007, 12:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISS View Post
Well, since we have Voracek ahead of Kane in our April rankings, I'll take the liberty of answering this.

The short answer: We think Voracek will be a better player at the NHL level in five years.

That's what we're doing. We're not predicting who will be the No. 1 pick. We're not grading the players performance this year. We're factoring everything into an evaluation and projecting who we think will be the best players in the NHL in five years and beyond.

Five years, is just a ballpark figure because at the age of 23, most NHLers have hit their stride and begun to contribute. There will still be development after that, of course, but it's just a question of experience at that point. By 23, players have finished maturing physically.

As for some of the reasons why we rank Voracek ahead of Kane despite Kane's superior stats, well there are a couple that serve to explain the short answer.

Voracek is a full year younger than Kane (actually 15 months). He has another year of development time to catch up to Kane. Voracek is taller and projects to be bigger and stronger while still having a world-class skill set. Voracek might already be the best player in the Q, never mind just the best draft prospect. The Moncton defence is one of the best in the league and he shredded it in the first round of the playoffs.

Voracek has a hunger for the puck and goes after every loose puck and into pretty much every scrum trying to get it. He doesn't need a linemate to get him the puck. These are skills you can't teach and are highly sought-after.

Now, keep in mind, that we have Kane at No. 2, so we're not slaggin Kane's ability, we're merely saying that when it comes time to produce offence against NHL defenceman and NHL checking forwards, we think Voracek will be better at it.

And we are not stating this is fact -- that he will do it -- we are merely expressing our opinion based on what we know and what we've seen. We don't pretend to have a crystal ball.
Kane is born: 1988-11-19
Voracek is born: 1989-08-15

Not 15 months I don't think. But if you say so.

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Old
04-17-2007, 02:36 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISS View Post
Well, since we have Voracek ahead of Kane in our April rankings, I'll take the liberty of answering this.

The short answer: We think Voracek will be a better player at the NHL level in five years.

That's what we're doing. We're not predicting who will be the No. 1 pick. We're not grading the players performance this year. We're factoring everything into an evaluation and projecting who we think will be the best players in the NHL in five years and beyond.

Five years, is just a ballpark figure because at the age of 23, most NHLers have hit their stride and begun to contribute. There will still be development after that, of course, but it's just a question of experience at that point. By 23, players have finished maturing physically.

As for some of the reasons why we rank Voracek ahead of Kane despite Kane's superior stats, well there are a couple that serve to explain the short answer.

Voracek is a full year younger than Kane (actually 15 months). He has another year of development time to catch up to Kane. Voracek is taller and projects to be bigger and stronger while still having a world-class skill set. Voracek might already be the best player in the Q, never mind just the best draft prospect. The Moncton defence is one of the best in the league and he shredded it in the first round of the playoffs.

Voracek has a hunger for the puck and goes after every loose puck and into pretty much every scrum trying to get it. He doesn't need a linemate to get him the puck. These are skills you can't teach and are highly sought-after.

Now, keep in mind, that we have Kane at No. 2, so we're not slaggin Kane's ability, we're merely saying that when it comes time to produce offence against NHL defenceman and NHL checking forwards, we think Voracek will be better at it.

And we are not stating this is fact -- that he will do it -- we are merely expressing our opinion based on what we know and what we've seen. We don't pretend to have a crystal ball.
Well Voracek isn't 15 months younger than Kane otherwise he wouldn't be eligible for the draft. I've seen a lot of Voracek and a quite a bit of Kane and I pretty much think your assessment is bang on though I think Kane will have a more offensively productive career.

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Old
04-17-2007, 03:04 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by slade View Post
i dont remember a more exciting junior player in quite some time.
Sidney Crosby is not that old.

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Old
04-17-2007, 03:40 AM
  #34
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Sidney Crosby is not that old.
He's 19 turning 20. So by HF's standards, he's on the verge of retirement!

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Old
04-17-2007, 03:59 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Stats are not important. Look at Jordan Staal's stats last year. Size and speed are crucial in the NHL.
Individually, it really isn't anymore.

On the countryary I would say small players are almost discriminated, look at Andy McDonald. He is playing such a huge role for Anaheim, IMO he is maybe their most valueble forward. He ties together the D line with the winger pair like noone I've ever seen before.

Though, looking at a team, it starts getting worriesome if you got a line with three guys under 6', so size should still be a factor. I am a Ranger fan and love Kane, thinks he ought to be above Voracek, but since we got 3-4 forwards already with good potential or already in the league below 6' I would be a bit worried about taking a Kane with a 1st overall pick if we had the option.

But, look at the Flames and the Trashers. These days its probably worse to have size and speed, but no puckskills and especially no organized transition game, then just puckskills...

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04-17-2007, 05:30 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
He's 19 turning 20. So by HF's standards, he's on the verge of retirement!

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04-17-2007, 05:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ISS View Post
The Moncton defence is one of the best in the league and he shredded it in the first round of the playoffs.
Not to discredit Voracek, as I think he is an excellent prospect, but I don't think Moncton's defence was anything special this year. I would describe them as being more along the lines of middle of the pack, as opposed to one of the league's best.

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04-17-2007, 07:36 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISS View Post

Voracek is a full year younger than Kane (actually 15 months). He has another year of development time to catch up to Kane.
Make that 9 months.

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Old
04-17-2007, 08:01 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
Sidney Crosby is not that old.
never saw him play at rimouski

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04-17-2007, 08:14 AM
  #40
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patrick kane may be behind vorachek. but that doesnt mean anything

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04-17-2007, 08:15 AM
  #41
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if anyone here has seen vorachek play u would know that he basiclly carries his team

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04-17-2007, 08:21 AM
  #42
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may be true- but london wouldnt be as far as they are in the playoffs without patty cakes either. londons D is questionable...and people are lumping this team with the 04-05 powerhouse which they are NOT.

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04-17-2007, 09:58 AM
  #43
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im douting you watch the knights as much as you claim.
I don't agree with ReLyT on this, but I know him and can confirm he's a Knights season ticket holder.

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04-17-2007, 10:03 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13thwarrior View Post
Kane is born: 1988-11-19
Voracek is born: 1989-08-15

Not 15 months I don't think. But if you say so.
Right you are. Shouldn't have gone from memory. It's nine months, but my point was that Kane is an 18-year-old for hockey purposes and Voracek is a 17-year-old.

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04-17-2007, 10:04 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Form and Substance View Post
Well Voracek isn't 15 months younger than Kane otherwise he wouldn't be eligible for the draft. I've seen a lot of Voracek and a quite a bit of Kane and I pretty much think your assessment is bang on though I think Kane will have a more offensively productive career.
I stand corrected, it's nine months. But Kane is a late 88 while Voraceck is an 89.

As for Kane being more productive offensively, you might be right. He has amazing hands and the puck doesn't weigh that much so size isn't a factor in that regard. Voracek, though will be a better all-around contributor in our opinion.


Last edited by ISS Hockey: 04-17-2007 at 10:30 AM.
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04-17-2007, 10:39 AM
  #46
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ISS- do you think kanes playoff production can move him back to the top spot in your standings? Word is he just got his wisdom teeth removed because they were impacted pretty badly....he just started solid food in the last 48 hours.

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04-17-2007, 02:18 PM
  #47
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I've seen just about every Knights game this year - so here's my two cents.

Kane, as we all know, has outstanding offensive skill. But his game is far from complete at this point.

First the physical stuff: He's listed at 160, but having seen him with his equipment off, I would bet that he's actually somewhere in the 150s. He has a very thin frame, which will lead some scouts to wonder whether he'll ever manage to pack on much size.

Secondly, his abilities. I don't think its so much a matter of playing scared, but the simple fact is he's not strong enough to be effective in the contested spaces, along the boards, or in front of the net. That's not to say he's easy to knock off the puck, but he doesn't use his body well to drive to the net. He's more likely to take a shot at someone's shin pads, or dish the puck off.

Kane also has a tendency to float on the backcheck. Even when he does get back he lacks the strength to effectively check players that outweigh him by 50 pounds. I've never seen him intentionally block a shot, and he, at times, seems lost in his own end.

He may yet develop into a top NHL talent, but there are still elements of his game that need quite a bit of work. Personally, I would avoid him in the top five, and I would rate Gagner ahead of him. Gagner doesn't have the offensive upside of Kane, but he plays more of a two way game, and, in my opinion, has a higher hockey IQ than Kane does. He's also nearly a year younger, and about 30 pounds heavier.

Kane is a great junior player - and as a Knight fan I'm thrilled to have him, but I have serious questions about his ability to play physically and defensively at the pro level.


Last edited by Knight444: 04-17-2007 at 02:24 PM.
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Old
04-17-2007, 02:30 PM
  #48
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I have only watched a few Knights games this year but did take in the last 2 playoff games. Excellant series.

I aggree with your points on Kane but everyone keeps bringing up the New NHL. I think that it will be interesting to see which team picks him as I think teams have very different views on what a New NHL player is.

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04-17-2007, 02:36 PM
  #49
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two way play is a style...why would a high scoring winger really NEED to focus on defensive play?

its that thought process that made the nhls dead puck era come to fruition...when teams were only drafting size and led to the nhl being a horrible product.





every player does NOT need to be doug gilmour. in kanes defense he is an offensive player in an offensive system. honestly- its the so called "complete player" clones that have me more worried than anything else.

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04-17-2007, 02:43 PM
  #50
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I have only watched a few Knights games this year but did take in the last 2 playoff games. Excellant series.

I aggree with your points on Kane but everyone keeps bringing up the New NHL. I think that it will be interesting to see which team picks him as I think teams have very different views on what a New NHL player is.
I know what you're saying, but my personal feeling is that the 'New NHL' is more of a marketing slogan than a revolution in the league. There is less clutching and grabbing, which is important for a slippery player like Kane, and more powerplays, but the game is still as defensively-oriented as it was pre-lockout, and many of the most important battles are still fought in the corners and in front of the net. If Kane continues to float on the backcheck, doesn't block shots, can't win puck battles in the corners, and won't work the contested spaces, he's going to have a hard time making it in the league. It is for this reason, I view him as a high risk/ high reward prospect.

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