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The boo birds come out for Koivu

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Old
02-20-2004, 02:45 PM
  #26
ChemiseBleuHonnete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IlyaK17
Were these fans that booed Saku Koivu the same ones that gave him a standing ovation for 8 minutes on his first game back after fighting cancer?

I think I'll agree with the fickle part.
I am really ashamed when I speak to other habs fans at the gym/school/work.... Yes, they're really stupid and it's not a myth. A few are really smart but a good proportion is lacking of any kind of intelligence.

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02-20-2004, 02:46 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Takeo21
So that grants him absolute immunity thereafter?

Simply....yes.


Saku Koivu set a standard for resilientcy, determination and overcoming poor odds when he contracted cancer in September '02, and beat it in time to play in the playoffs in 2003. 2 years later he gets booed off the ice in the same town. If i did that I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror.

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02-20-2004, 02:48 PM
  #28
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I hate it when people do that, it's just retarded, and it makes me ashamed. When the Canucks lost a home game vs. Detroit in the playoffs a couple years ago, people booed and threw garbage on the ice and at the players. I think Ohlund got hit in the head with something. I had never been so ashamed to be a Canucks fan, it was disgusting.

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02-20-2004, 02:52 PM
  #29
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It's sad that such morons could do this. You should have seen the Habs board explode when it happened. It's disgusting that there is a small (in relation to the rest of the fans) pocket of Francophone fans, the same ones who sent cards, flowers, and emails to the man during his treatment, who boo this man simply because he is supposedly holding back the RDS-holy Mike Ribeiro.

I mean, this is a guy who faced near-death for eight months, and came back with such force that he led his beloved team over their arch-rivals in the Stanley Cup playoffs. This guy received an eight-minute standing ovation from the same classless fools who booed him.

Just disgusting and shameful. Bob Gainey needs to do something about it. Fine, fans have their favourite players; but by no means should these ***** be booing their captain and best player because they favour an arrogant, gutless, little puke such as Ribeiro.

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02-20-2004, 02:54 PM
  #30
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I took a picture of three of the troublemakers.

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02-20-2004, 02:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaloFan
I hate it when people do that, it's just retarded, and it makes me ashamed. When the Canucks lost a home game vs. Detroit in the playoffs a couple years ago, people booed and threw garbage on the ice and at the players. I think Ohlund got hit in the head with something. I had never been so ashamed to be a Canucks fan, it was disgusting.
Booing a team as a whole is one thing (although throwing stuff IS moronic), and is something I have no problem with (even if I refuse to do it myself when I go see a game at the Bell Center), but picking on one player is disgusting and shameful, especially when it is a player from your own team you love and supposedly cheer for. There's no excuse for such a lame and classless behavior, no matter the amount of booze you might have drank.

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02-20-2004, 03:15 PM
  #32
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The French/English language thing is really huge. I think we have a very good example of it in this thread. Personally, I am a French-speaking Québecois taht is quite neutral on the issue as I don't see language being something on which I will determine who I like and who I don't. However, medias in Quebec doesn't work this way.

Jack Todd started a demolition campaign on Patrice Brisebois back then and started to call him Breeze-by. Then, the anglophones fans at the Bell Center began to boo him whenever he'd touch the puck for no reason. Wether he made a nice play or not didn't matter: they'd boo him.

Then, at the end of last season, Mike Ribeiro started to get his acts together and to rise in the line-up. The Habs weren't making the playoffs and the media started to question Koivu's leadership. Then, one day, in the Journal de Montréal (the biggest "propaganda" outlet in Quebec, IMO) they said that Koivu shouldn't be the captain because he can't speak French and isn't wanting to learn it. Then, they talked about how Gainey, Robinson, etc.. learned to speak French by respect for the fans and such. It was the beginning of the anti-Koivu, pro-Ribeiro propaganda.

Since the beginning of this season, Koivu's leadership has been questionned every damn week. And then, this week, Koivu made a very stupid thing in hitting Ribeiro twice. It is true that he shouldn't have done it and that it was pretty god damn stupid given the circonstances with Ribeiro. I really question Koivu's judgement on it, furthermore he didn't even wanted to talk to the press after that. There's no other word for that: it was STUPID. The medias took it up and made a whole story around it, which was to be expected by any guy with half a brain, and then had another argument for their propaganda. And then, what had to happen happened.

My take on that is pretty simple: you have three sides, the anglophone who are biased against Ribeiro because he's French and the francophones who are biased against Koivu. In the anglophone's case, it is even less direct, they will cover their own bias behind things like: «If Koivu was French nobody would be talking about it» or «It's always the French media» or «The French are stupid». That kind of argument is kind of racist and false since English media are often biased against Quebecers themselves as we've seen with Brisebois.

A good example of an anglophone being biased against a French player just happened here: «Fine, fans have their favourite players; but by no means should these ***** be booing their captain and best player because they favour an arrogant, gutless, little puke such as Ribeiro.», just said an Anglophone fan.

OK.. So now that Koivu hit Ribeiro two times at the practice and because the French media and fans love him, he suddenly because an arrogant, gutless like puke. What has Ribeiro ever done to him? Nothing. Has Ribeiro hit Koivu to the head with a huge stupid smile on his face? No. Then why does he hate him? Because he is just has biased as the other side he despise for being biased.

That, my friends, is quite laughable, but that's the way it is in Habs Land.

Oh, and then there is people like me: people who won't say too much on the issue because they think of it as irrevelent, stupid and furthermore, that are in fact based on only one thing: racism from both sides.


Last edited by Histrion: 02-20-2004 at 03:22 PM.
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02-20-2004, 03:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesome`
Oh, and then there is people like me: people who won't say too much on the issue because they think of it as irrevelent, stupid and furthermore, that are in fact based on only one thing: racism from both sides.
I'm with you on this one.

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02-20-2004, 03:48 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesome`
My take on that is pretty simple: you have three sides, the anglophone who are biased against Ribeiro because he's French and the francophones who are biased against Koivu. In the anglophone's case, it is even less direct, they will cover their own bias behind things like: «If Koivu was French nobody would be talking about it» or «It's always the French media» or «The French are stupid». That kind of argument is kind of racist and false since English media are often biased against Quebecers themselves as we've seen with Brisebois.
I couldn't give about the Habs or thier fans but I still doubt it would have happened if Koivu was French.

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02-20-2004, 03:56 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesome`
The French/English language thing is really huge. I think we have a very good example of it in this thread. Personally, I am a French-speaking Québecois taht is quite neutral on the issue as I don't see language being something on which I will determine who I like and who I don't. However, medias in Quebec doesn't work this way.

Jack Todd started a demolition campaign on Patrice Brisebois back then and started to call him Breeze-by. Then, the anglophones fans at the Bell Center began to boo him whenever he'd touch the puck for no reason. Wether he made a nice play or not didn't matter: they'd boo him.

Then, at the end of last season, Mike Ribeiro started to get his acts together and to rise in the line-up. The Habs weren't making the playoffs and the media started to question Koivu's leadership. Then, one day, in the Journal de Montréal (the biggest "propaganda" outlet in Quebec, IMO) they said that Koivu shouldn't be the captain because he can't speak French and isn't wanting to learn it. Then, they talked about how Gainey, Robinson, etc.. learned to speak French by respect for the fans and such. It was the beginning of the anti-Koivu, pro-Ribeiro propaganda.

Since the beginning of this season, Koivu's leadership has been questionned every damn week. And then, this week, Koivu made a very stupid thing in hitting Ribeiro twice. It is true that he shouldn't have done it and that it was pretty god damn stupid given the circonstances with Ribeiro. I really question Koivu's judgement on it, furthermore he didn't even wanted to talk to the press after that. There's no other word for that: it was STUPID. The medias took it up and made a whole story around it, which was to be expected by any guy with half a brain, and then had another argument for their propaganda. And then, what had to happen happened.

My take on that is pretty simple: you have three sides, the anglophone who are biased against Ribeiro because he's French and the francophones who are biased against Koivu. In the anglophone's case, it is even less direct, they will cover their own bias behind things like: «If Koivu was French nobody would be talking about it» or «It's always the French media» or «The French are stupid». That kind of argument is kind of racist and false since English media are often biased against Quebecers themselves as we've seen with Brisebois.

A good example of an anglophone being biased against a French player just happened here: «Fine, fans have their favourite players; but by no means should these ***** be booing their captain and best player because they favour an arrogant, gutless, little puke such as Ribeiro.», just said an Anglophone fan.

OK.. So now that Koivu hit Ribeiro two times at the practice and because the French media and fans love him, he suddenly because an arrogant, gutless like puke. What has Ribeiro ever done to him? Nothing. Has Ribeiro hit Koivu to the head with a huge stupid smile on his face? No. Then why does he hate him? Because he is just has biased as the other side he despise for being biased.

That, my friends, is quite laughable, but that's the way it is in Habs Land.

Oh, and then there is people like me: people who won't say too much on the issue because they think of it as irrevelent, stupid and furthermore, that are in fact based on only one thing: racism from both sides.

Ribeiro has shown some actions of being a little arrogant puke. The fact is he was yapping at Koivu prior to Saku giving him a shot. What is said, only two people know. Also, when Ribeiro got benched, he was said to have laughed about it and not taking Julien seriously. That to me consitutes being arrogant. As Captain, Koivu may have also see Ribeiro as not being a team player, by him having usually the longest shifts among forwards. Koivu sees more than you and the media, so I think it is safe to say there is much more to the story than Koivu hitting the INNOCENT GOLDEN BOY Ribeiro for no reason. Neither are truly innocent, but the difference is, one is being portrayed that way by the media and by you, someone who said he is not biased.

The fact is you single out Anglo fans for booing Brisebois because of Jack Todd. That to me doesn't sound like someone without bias. There is also the difference, Brisebois continually and routinely made terrible plays on the ice. Koivu is getting booed because of politics. Todd came up with infamous "Breeze bye" but the French media (some) has a major smear campaign based on language and politics.

This is not a simple topic, its not all French vs. English, nor Koivu vs. Ribeiro, nor cut and dry like Koivu hit Ribeiro, or Ribeiro is this, and Koivu is that, and I find you very presumptious/condescending in your thinking.

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Old
02-20-2004, 03:56 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartG101
I couldn't give about the Habs or thier fans but I still doubt it would have happened if Koivu was French.
I dunno if it would happen, but if it did, it wouldn't blow up as much as it has for this incident.
Besides, it would just be two guys going at it in practice one day instead of "the European Captain" vs "the French godsend".

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02-20-2004, 04:12 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Ribeiro has shown some actions of being a little arrogant puke. The fact is he was yapping at Koivu prior to Saku giving him a shot. What is said, only two people know. Also, when Ribeiro got benched, he was said to have laughed about it and not taking Julien seriously. That to me consitutes being arrogant. As Captain, Koivu may have also see Ribeiro as not being a team player, by him having usually the longest shifts among forwards. Koivu sees more than you and the media, so I think it is safe to say there is much more to the story than Koivu hitting the INNOCENT GOLDEN BOY Ribeiro for no reason. Neither are truly innocent, but the difference is, one is being portrayed that way by the media and by you, someone who said he is not biased.

The fact is you single out Anglo fans for booing Brisebois because of Jack Todd. That to me doesn't sound like someone without bias. There is also the difference, Brisebois continually and routinely made terrible plays on the ice. Koivu is getting booed because of politics. Todd came up with infamous "Breeze bye" but the French media (some) has a major smear campaign based on language and politics.

This is not a simple topic, its not all French vs. English, nor Koivu vs. Ribeiro, nor cut and dry like Koivu hit Ribeiro, or Ribeiro is this, and Koivu is that, and I find you very presumptious/condescending in your thinking.
Obviously some francophones booed Brisebois too and vice-versa. I am not saying that every body is like this. The fact is that when you talk about an issue like this you just can't single out every damn person and say: this one was booing because of this and the other one did that because of that very thing. You have to make a portray of it that you think is the closest thing to reality that you can have, that's what I did.

Is my theory entirely true? Of course it's not and I am the first one who will say it. However, it holds a lot of truth behind it. As for Koivu hitting Ribeiro and the reasons which led (or lead?) to do it, I just don't know what they are and you don't know it more than me. However, I know that he hitted him, that is a fact. If they have a problem together they should do like civilized people do and talk about it in private, that's it. If Koivu want his message to be understood and he has to actually hit Ribeiro to make him understand it, there's two choices: a) Ribeiro is a selfish and stupid player or b) Koivu might not be a good captain.

And by the way, if I singled out anglos for booing Breeze-by, it's simply because it all started in The Gazette which isn't exactly a popular newspaper amongs Francophones, eh? I singled them out the same way everybody is singling out the francophones for Koivu being booed assuming that since it's the French media that started it, it HAS to be the francophones that were booing. Is this logic flawed? Yes. But that's the only one that is plausible that I saw to make a global picture out of the situation and explaining it as simply as possible to people who don't live in Quebec and just don't know how it works.

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02-20-2004, 04:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesome`
Oh, and then there is people like me: people who won't say too much on the issue because they think of it as irrevelent, stupid and furthermore, that are in fact based on only one thing: racism from both sides.
awesome`, very well said (although I admit to being jealous of people who can express themselves well in more than one language!).

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned: if you pay a lot of money to see an NHL game, don't you have the right to support the players you like, and, um, dis-support the ones you don't? I think so. It's when we worship players like heroes or treat them like war criminals that things get carried away.

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02-20-2004, 04:42 PM
  #39
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Im pretty embarrassed too

Ribeiro was also getting some boo's, but not nearly as much as Koivu.

And i don't think Brisebois was only getting booed by the English folk. I knew alot of French quebecers who hated Brisebois, i think the boos for Brisebois were mixed.

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02-20-2004, 05:46 PM
  #40
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I just want to say that the Breezer and Koivu situations are totaly different IMO.

Brisebois was booed because he was inconsistent as hell. He'd have one good season and then would choke terribly the next one. It's been like that for his whole career. Jack Todd started the bashing campaign and I can't say I approve but I can definately see where he comes from. As for Koivu there are so many good reasons why it's SO wrong to disrespect him the way the medias and fans are doing. First he's the captain. Second he has ALWAYS given a full and consistent effort. And third he has given back to the community by raising funds for a cancer detection machine. He has done more in his stay here than 95% of the players that have worn this jersey over the past 10 seasons. I think it's totaly pathetic that Brisebois was booed but Brisebois is a clear case of a talented player that could have given back more to the habs especially considering his 4M a season long term contract. But Koivu... booing him is beyond pathetic. I have no words for this infamy.

Koivu is twice the player that Ribeiro is. Ribs is a very talented young player but it always amaze me why he gets so much respect for three quarters of a season over the past 5-6 years while Koivu gets disrespected for all his determination, hard work, class and consistency over a much longer period of time. Sure he hasn't lead the team in the playoffs many times, but it's kinda hard when your GM gut the team and ice a joke of a team seasons after seasons. It's also pretty hard when your star goalie doesn't do jack during the off season and pulls a stinker of a season. It's also pretty hard when the best player you've played with over your career are Recchi (not for long), Zednik and Savage. If I were Koivu I'd be beyond pissed at what is going on. I'm surprised he hasn't blown a gasket earlier. I wouldn't be upset if he leaves via free agency for less money in a couple of years.

As for a lot of english fans slowly developing a hate for Ribeiro I can understand them. French is my first language and I'm getting very sick of the freakin' Ribeiro hype when he is nothing but a young player coming into his own and NOT the star player the french media makes him out to be. Certainly not our first line center, certainly not our best forward altough you'd be convinced of the opposite if you didn't watch the games and based your opinion on all the french medias. When a player is overated it often has a way of getting on your nerves. When this same player is overated by a bunch of medias because said player speak french it's even more annoying. When that same guy is respected more than your team's captain and best player it's even worse. Even though it's stupid I often feel like making up for the Koivu hate by having a negative bias toward Ribeiro.

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02-20-2004, 06:32 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Simply....yes.


Saku Koivu set a standard for resilientcy, determination and overcoming poor odds when he contracted cancer in September '02, and beat it in time to play in the playoffs in 2003. 2 years later he gets booed off the ice in the same town. If i did that I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror.
I completely disagree. I do not feel he deserves any special treatment because of a separate situation. The fans (whether right or wrong) voiced their disagreement with the way he conducted himself in a practice. That has nothing to do with anything else, and certainly not with his cancer.

Booing your hometown guys (except in some very specific, unusual situations) ain't smart, though. Some people at the Bell center are hindering their favorite team with what is becoming a nasty and stupid habit.

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02-20-2004, 07:28 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
I just want to say that the Breezer and Koivu situations are totaly different IMO.

Brisebois was booed because he was inconsistent as hell. He'd have one good season and then would choke terribly the next one. It's been like that for his whole career. Jack Todd started the bashing campaign and I can't say I approve but I can definately see where he comes from. As for Koivu there are so many good reasons why it's SO wrong to disrespect him the way the medias and fans are doing. First he's the captain. Second he has ALWAYS given a full and consistent effort. And third he has given back to the community by raising funds for a cancer detection machine. He has done more in his stay here than 95% of the players that have worn this jersey over the past 10 seasons. I think it's totaly pathetic that Brisebois was booed but Brisebois is a clear case of a talented player that could have given back more to the habs especially considering his 4M a season long term contract. But Koivu... booing him is beyond pathetic. I have no words for this infamy.

Koivu is twice the player that Ribeiro is. Ribs is a very talented young player but it always amaze me why he gets so much respect for three quarters of a season over the past 5-6 years while Koivu gets disrespected for all his determination, hard work, class and consistency over a much longer period of time. Sure he hasn't lead the team in the playoffs many times, but it's kinda hard when your GM gut the team and ice a joke of a team seasons after seasons. It's also pretty hard when your star goalie doesn't do jack during the off season and pulls a stinker of a season. It's also pretty hard when the best player you've played with over your career are Recchi (not for long), Zednik and Savage. If I were Koivu I'd be beyond pissed at what is going on. I'm surprised he hasn't blown a gasket earlier. I wouldn't be upset if he leaves via free agency for less money in a couple of years.

As for a lot of english fans slowly developing a hate for Ribeiro I can understand them. French is my first language and I'm getting very sick of the freakin' Ribeiro hype when he is nothing but a young player coming into his own and NOT the star player the french media makes him out to be. Certainly not our first line center, certainly not our best forward altough you'd be convinced of the opposite if you didn't watch the games and based your opinion on all the french medias. When a player is overated it often has a way of getting on your nerves. When this same player is overated by a bunch of medias because said player speak french it's even more annoying. When that same guy is respected more than your team's captain and best player it's even worse. Even though it's stupid I often feel like making up for the Koivu hate by having a negative bias toward Ribeiro.

I feel for you. I hate it when fans boo period, let alone to someone who has given it his all so that Habs would succeed. Koivu is the type of captain every team desires for.

I haven't seen enough of Ribeiro to rate his skills vs. Koivu, but that is besides the point. If Ribeiro is/was being an arrogant little "punk" many claim he is, he DESERVES to be smacked around. You would think a young player like him would automatically show respect to someone like Koivu, who has given his all to the Canadies?!

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02-20-2004, 07:51 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
I just want to say that the Breezer and Koivu situations are totaly different IMO.

Brisebois was booed because he was inconsistent as hell. He'd have one good season and then would choke terribly the next one. It's been like that for his whole career. Jack Todd started the bashing campaign and I can't say I approve but I can definately see where he comes from. As for Koivu there are so many good reasons why it's SO wrong to disrespect him the way the medias and fans are doing. First he's the captain. Second he has ALWAYS given a full and consistent effort. And third he has given back to the community by raising funds for a cancer detection machine. He has done more in his stay here than 95% of the players that have worn this jersey over the past 10 seasons. I think it's totaly pathetic that Brisebois was booed but Brisebois is a clear case of a talented player that could have given back more to the habs especially considering his 4M a season long term contract. But Koivu... booing him is beyond pathetic. I have no words for this infamy.

Koivu is twice the player that Ribeiro is. Ribs is a very talented young player but it always amaze me why he gets so much respect for three quarters of a season over the past 5-6 years while Koivu gets disrespected for all his determination, hard work, class and consistency over a much longer period of time. Sure he hasn't lead the team in the playoffs many times, but it's kinda hard when your GM gut the team and ice a joke of a team seasons after seasons. It's also pretty hard when your star goalie doesn't do jack during the off season and pulls a stinker of a season. It's also pretty hard when the best player you've played with over your career are Recchi (not for long), Zednik and Savage. If I were Koivu I'd be beyond pissed at what is going on. I'm surprised he hasn't blown a gasket earlier. I wouldn't be upset if he leaves via free agency for less money in a couple of years.

As for a lot of english fans slowly developing a hate for Ribeiro I can understand them. French is my first language and I'm getting very sick of the freakin' Ribeiro hype when he is nothing but a young player coming into his own and NOT the star player the french media makes him out to be. Certainly not our first line center, certainly not our best forward altough you'd be convinced of the opposite if you didn't watch the games and based your opinion on all the french medias. When a player is overated it often has a way of getting on your nerves. When this same player is overated by a bunch of medias because said player speak french it's even more annoying. When that same guy is respected more than your team's captain and best player it's even worse. Even though it's stupid I often feel like making up for the Koivu hate by having a negative bias toward Ribeiro.

Boy, I knew we had similar opinions, but theres nothing I can add to that. I feel the exact(french being my main language also) way.

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02-20-2004, 08:25 PM
  #44
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So Ribs lets say coky arrogant like some says.
Maybe Koivu is a bad captaine like other says.
Koivu is good on the ice hart but in dressing
room nobody here knows.
RUMORS. About Ribs arrogant is not better than Koivu
not good in dressing room.

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Old
02-20-2004, 09:46 PM
  #45
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I love when people pretend to know the character of players when they have had absolute zero contact with the individuals. I similarly love when people judge a player's lockerroom leadership and antics when they've been in the room with them a total of zero times. YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT THESE TWO GUYS! Two players got annoyed with each other in practice. Thats ALL that happened. If a group of Habs fans want to boo them for it, well its their right, but it sure as hell isn't very smart. Sure doesn't make it easier for Koivu to help get his team back on track, and it sure doesn't help attract potential free agent signings. If the TEAM deserves a booing then by all means. If a player does something severe enough, then fine. However, booing over this? Completely and utterly ridiculous.

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Old
02-20-2004, 10:06 PM
  #46
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Can someone please tell me what happened between Koivu and Ribero? I'm lost over here on the westcoast and have just been following the Cooke-Johnson thing.

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02-20-2004, 10:19 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staze19
Can someone please tell me what happened between Koivu and Ribero? I'm lost over here on the westcoast and have just been following the Cooke-Johnson thing.
Minor pushing and shoving in practice.

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02-20-2004, 10:32 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
Yeah, but you can't use that forever. Yes he survived and man is he a strong man mentally and physically for that. But when all is said and done, if he ain't performing on the ice, the fans will get at him for it.

Koivu's a good player, he should just respond with a couple of goals and solid play..they'll get off his back.
Huh ... the reason why he is booed has got NOTHING to do with how he is performing on the ice. I couldn't think of a habs player less deserving of booings for his play on the ice. The fact Koivu fought a heroic battle with cancer and came back in the playoffs for the fans when he probably should have stayed home to recuperate from that battle just add up with all the other numerous reasons why I'm sickened by those classless boo birds.

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Old
02-21-2004, 05:54 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
Another nail to the coffin of the myth of the "knowledgeable" Montreal hockey fan.
Because 200 fans out of 20000 acted like jackasses?

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Old
02-21-2004, 05:57 AM
  #50
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You know, in the 1st period of Habs next home game, the fans could show they have a sense of humour by booing every Habs player except Brisebois. He'd get loud cheers of approval.

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