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Preds\Sharks Game 4 GDT

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Old
04-19-2007, 10:28 PM
  #226
jstreet
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Originally Posted by AusPredsfan View Post
lol and how do i youtube it without my computer? isn't that what they call a catch 22?
watch it on a friend's computer!

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04-20-2007, 07:04 AM
  #227
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a few thoughts, including some that some people will disagree violently with... but that's ok, because it's the debate and arguments that makes this halfway enjoyable anyway (or why would anyone bother to be a die-hard fan posting on here to begin with?)..

...i will flat out guarantee i'm as disappointed as any other person on this board.. crushing to see the hole we've put ourselves in and to be facing elimination again from a team and coach i absolutely abhore..

...many watched the game, but judging from many of the comments i've seen in the game day thread and in the various threads around here, many don't have the slighest clue of what they saw and why it happened like it did. we played a good game, beating the sharks in all aspects but one, goaltending.. and this isn't saying vokoun was bad, he was ok, it's simply that nabokov stole this game for them.. we outchanced, outshot and outplayed the sharks fairly badly for the first two periods, and walked away trailing by two goals at the second intermission as payment.. if you didn't see that, you might need to start following a new sport for recreation..

...the third period of course turns your stomach as a pred fan.. once san jose goes into the shutdown protect the lead mode, we're in very bad trouble.. this is when they can use their size and strength to all but bottle us up in our own end of the ice and exactly what they did last night once they got to the third with the two goal lead.. it's why we cann't play behind this team and have any decent chance of winning.. once you get into this stage of the game, guys like grier and all their big forwards become highly effective against our small blueline.. when you can skate well and ourweight a team 18 lbs a man, size comes into play slowing the game to a crawl..

....none of that excuses our play in the third completely however.. i thought we were a beaten team mentally beginning the third.. i actually question the heart and desire of some of our players when we fall behind like that.. you have to pay a price to get the puck moving in those situations.. the defensemen having to be willing to take a big hit to chip the puck forward into the neutral zone, and the forwards have to play with intensity and heart to win the puck battles in the neutral zone and then themselves have to be willing to take another big hit to get the puck deep into the offensive zone.. we weren't.. we constantly shied away from coming hits, not willing to pay the price.. we constantly lost the battles for the puck in the neutral zone which allowed them to chip the puck back deep and start it all over again.. we simply didn't have the mental desire or toughness to pay the price to have the chance to come back..

...the way we've built this team, this is the risk that was taken... play from ahead and keep the game open and we're as good as any team, better than most all in fact.. play from behind and we're mediocre at best with our roster.. we have to keep the game open to be successful period.

...the simple fact is that sullivan is our best player.. without sullivan we are not an elite team, and not near as good as many think.. people screaming "how can we go from almost winning the president's cup to this??!".. the answer's simple.. we're not the same team we were 25 games ago.. surely people don't think we simply quit trying to win games about the time sully went down do they?.. the fact is, since he was injured, it so dramatically changed and negatively affected this team that since that time, we've had the 8th best record in the western conference.. and this has been over the last two months of the season, not some short stretch of hockey we're talking about here.. people on here act like we should be the odds on favorite to win the cup, and that hasn't been true since about january..

...so having said that, san jose right now is a better team than we are in most aspects.. their team speed is as good as ours, their pp is better than ours, they are much bigger and stronger, they're more experienced and they have as good a goaltending as we do.. without a healthy sully and erat, we're not as good as a healthy san jose, no matter what some want to believe.. people will scream "we still have good players without sully!!" and they're right.. but what we have is a team built to be a speed counter team, and without sully, we're simply average in those two aspects of the game..

...the "fire trotz last month crowd" will scream that's simply an excuse.. and it is of course.. these people want to oversimplify things and are the first to scream "no excuses accepted!!" because they simply want to not think about reasons.. but it's an honest explaination of one of the main reasons we're in this hole..

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04-20-2007, 10:14 AM
  #228
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You know.....after reading this thread and sampling some others, I don't know who I am more disappointed and disgusted with.......our players or our fan base.

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04-20-2007, 10:27 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
You know.....after reading this thread and sampling some others, I don't know who I am more disappointed and disgusted with.......our players or our fan base.
Disgusted because people have opinions? Disgusted because people want our team to take it to the next level? Disgusted because people are frustrated that a team with this much talent is potentially going to lose in the first round for the third year in a row?

Just because people are frustrated with our play doesn't mean people are quitting being fans or jumping ship. You are seeing comments from people who put a TON of emotional interest in this team. And these people see a team have a great regular season up until the last part of the season. Then that team slowly gets worse and then struggles again in the playoffs.

I understand that we've had a lot of injuries. I understand we've had a great regular season. I understand we've gotten some bad breaks in this series. I've posted my thoughts on the games. The only game I really whined about was game 3, where the team failed to show up. I posted my thoughts on game 4, where I pointed out we played great the first two periods and failed to get the job done in the third and that Nabokov played outstanding.

I don't think its ok to say, you know what, we got beat by a good goalie.

Every team has injuries. Every team gets bad breaks. The teams that are able to overcome these tough breaks and injuries are the teams that win Cups. Our coaches, players, and fans cannot even follow the motto of 'No Excuses.'

This series isn't over, but that doesn't mean people cannot be critical of the team. Who knows, maybe they win 3 straight and move on to the next round. But the team should not be in this position right now.

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04-20-2007, 10:29 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Pred303 View Post
...many watched the game, but judging from many of the comments i've seen in the game day thread and in the various threads around here, many don't have the slighest clue of what they saw and why it happened like it did. we played a good game, beating the sharks in all aspects but one, goaltending.. and this isn't saying vokoun was bad, he was ok, it's simply that nabokov stole this game for them.. we outchanced, outshot and outplayed the sharks fairly badly for the first two periods, and walked away trailing by two goals at the second intermission as payment.. if you didn't see that, you might need to start following a new sport for recreation..
Perhaps you should re-read some of the comments then. Some people have typed out similar thoughts. Even so, I think you are being a bit pretentious here.

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04-20-2007, 10:37 AM
  #231
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Disgusted because people are frustrated that a team with this much talent is potentially going to lose in the first round for the third year in a row?
This would be the first year that the Preds had this much talent and lost in the first round. The year against Detroit we were no way near this talented. This year's team has way more talent than last year's also.

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04-20-2007, 10:46 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Disgusted because people have opinions? Disgusted because people want our team to take it to the next level? Disgusted because people are frustrated that a team with this much talent is potentially going to lose in the first round for the third year in a row?

Just because people are frustrated with our play doesn't mean people are quitting being fans or jumping ship. You are seeing comments from people who put a TON of emotional interest in this team. And these people see a team have a great regular season up until the last part of the season. Then that team slowly gets worse and then struggles again in the playoffs.

I understand that we've had a lot of injuries. I understand we've had a great regular season. I understand we've gotten some bad breaks in this series. I've posted my thoughts on the games. The only game I really whined about was game 3, where the team failed to show up. I posted my thoughts on game 4, where I pointed out we played great the first two periods and failed to get the job done in the third and that Nabokov played outstanding.

I don't think its ok to say, you know what, we got beat by a good goalie.

Every team has injuries. Every team gets bad breaks. The teams that are able to overcome these tough breaks and injuries are the teams that win Cups. Our coaches, players, and fans cannot even follow the motto of 'No Excuses.'

This series isn't over, but that doesn't mean people cannot be critical of the team. Who knows, maybe they win 3 straight and move on to the next round. But the team should not be in this position right now.
Good post. I admit I get caught up in emotion during the games...but I think I'm mostly realistic...and I don't think being disappointed in the way this series has played out makes me any less of a fan.

HT--I realize that you and p303 have a better insight as to the inner workings of the team, given the time you've spent with them in a way that none of the rest of us will...and I know that you probably have more of an appreciation\respect of Trotz and his staff as well as the leadership group of the team than the rest of us, given the things you've seen firsthand. That said...while I don't argue with anything you or p303 have said(if you re-read the GDT, I was mostly happy with the effort of the last game), there comes a time when you have to say..enough is enough. In my opinion, at least, the disappointment in Trotz\some of the team's leadership goes beyond this series. For the third year in a row, we're on the verge of going out in the first round. It's not all Trotz's fault, obviously...but hockey can be an ugly game in that way. When the results aren't there, it might be time to go another direction. There's no doubt that Sullivan is our best player, there's no doubt that Erat is important...but I don't think that missing one or two of those players alone removes our chances. Missing one or two players...and having your other star players go absent(Arnott, Legwand, Kariya, Timonen) will remove your chances. Some of that falls on them, but ultimately...Trotz's job is to ensure that the team is ready to play. If something isn't working...it's not enough to simply juggle the lines and hope for the best. You have to get to the root of the problem. This isn't the first time that Trotz has been outcoached...and it's a telling fact that we're 0-7 on the road in the playoffs.

If that disgusts you or frustrates you...I apologize, but people have a right to an opinion. You're free to disagree with it...but for the sake of discussion, try to explain your disagreement.

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04-20-2007, 10:47 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
This would be the first year that the Preds had this much talent and lost in the first round. The year against Detroit we were no way near this talented. This year's team has way more talent than last year's also.
Where did I say we haven't improved? Again, we've improved our roster each year yet were bounced in the first round the first two playoff series and are on the verge of meeting the exact same fate.

Funny you mention our first playoff series. We got two wins as an 8th seed.

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04-20-2007, 11:04 AM
  #234
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Good post. I admit I get caught up in emotion during the games...but I think I'm mostly realistic...and I don't think being disappointed in the way this series has played out makes me any less of a fan.

HT--I realize that you and p303 have a better insight as to the inner workings of the team, given the time you've spent with them in a way that none of the rest of us will...and I know that you probably have more of an appreciation\respect of Trotz and his staff as well as the leadership group of the team than the rest of us, given the things you've seen firsthand. That said...while I don't argue with anything you or p303 have said(if you re-read the GDT, I was mostly happy with the effort of the last game), there comes a time when you have to say..enough is enough. In my opinion, at least, the disappointment in Trotz\some of the team's leadership goes beyond this series. For the third year in a row, we're on the verge of going out in the first round. It's not all Trotz's fault, obviously...but hockey can be an ugly game in that way. When the results aren't there, it might be time to go another direction. There's no doubt that Sullivan is our best player, there's no doubt that Erat is important...but I don't think that missing one or two of those players alone removes our chances. Missing one or two players...and having your other star players go absent(Arnott, Legwand, Kariya, Timonen) will remove your chances. Some of that falls on them, but ultimately...Trotz's job is to ensure that the team is ready to play. If something isn't working...it's not enough to simply juggle the lines and hope for the best. You have to get to the root of the problem. This isn't the first time that Trotz has been outcoached...and it's a telling fact that we're 0-7 on the road in the playoffs.

If that disgusts you or frustrates you...I apologize, but people have a right to an opinion. You're free to disagree with it...but for the sake of discussion, try to explain your disagreement.
both 303 and my posts were posts we put on NP.com yesterday, so if you have read those boards lately, admittedly they are in better context there.
Also, for the most part, most of the HF Pred crowd can discuss things in a logical insightful way. That being said, I think opinions are expressed around here on emotional basis more frequently than they have in the past....hard to tell why.

And I am not saying Trotz won't become a casualty in all this [see the other thread].

I have to run to the OR now, but will expand later if necissary.

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04-20-2007, 11:12 AM
  #235
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both 303 and my posts were posts we put on NP.com yesterday, so if you have read those boards lately, admittedly they are in better context there.
Also, for the most part, most of the HF Pred crowd can discuss things in a logical insightful way. That being said, I think opinions are expressed around here on emotional basis more frequently than they have in the past....hard to tell why.

And I am not saying Trotz won't become a casualty in all this [see the other thread].

I have to run to the OR now, but will expand later if necissary.
Okay, I didn't realize that these were np.com posts...that certainly colors them a little differently(as most know, I don't post over there or even read there anymore)

As far as the overall timbre of the board...it is different than it used to be, but that's to be expected when you get an influx of new posters(nothing against most of our new posters). Most of the usual suspects are still around though, and I think most can be counted on for good discussion, still.

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04-20-2007, 11:57 AM
  #236
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Especially in regards to what we are seeing on NP.com [and therefore can be extrapolated to the fan base at large]......Part of the hysteria....disappointment...pessimism....and whatever else you want to call it we see coming from the fanbase is that we all realize, deep in our gut, how important this playoff run is/was not only to our hopes and dreams and emotional investment for this year......but more importantly to our deep, darkest fear of all.......losing the team altogether....that is where all the angst is coming from, I have no doubt.

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04-20-2007, 02:06 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post

As far as the overall timbre of the board...it is different than it used to be, but that's to be expected when you get an influx of new posters(nothing against most of our new posters). Most of the usual suspects are still around though, and I think most can be counted on for good discussion, still.
One thing I have noticed as a change is that since there have been certain long time posters that are posting much less frequently than before, the rudder of logic and analysis has seemed to give way to more of emotional reaction and firebomb posting type techniques around here.

I have always been proud of the group of Pred posters we have had at HF, because as a group, we were always known as a fairly good, analytical, logical group as opposed to some other team's HF poster members as a whole.
Lately, however, the timber of this board has drifted to more of the reactionary, NP.com, type of discussions. Not that there is anything wrong with disagreeing with the coaches philosophy or what we are doing on the ice....but just the reactionary way it is often [though not always] discussed.

Just making an observation....not pointing any fingers....

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04-20-2007, 02:27 PM
  #238
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One thing I have noticed as a change is that since there have been certain long time posters that are posting much less frequently than before, the rudder of logic and analysis has seemed to give way to more of emotional reaction and firebomb posting type techniques around here.

I have always been proud of the group of Pred posters we have had at HF, because as a group, we were always known as a fairly good, analytical, logical group as opposed to some other team's HF poster members as a whole.
Lately, however, the timber of this board has drifted to more of the reactionary, NP.com, type of discussions. Not that there is anything wrong with disagreeing with the coaches philosophy or what we are doing on the ice....but just the reactionary way it is often [though not always] discussed.

Just making an observation....not pointing any fingers....

I think...and again...no offense to our new posters...

But I think we're getting a lot of younger fans...and fans that maybe haven't been around as long. As brutal as years 1-5 were for those of us that were around for it...it did something to us on a psychological level. We're a little bit better equipped to deal with the ups and downs. We get angry\frustrated when things don't go our way...and we're happier than anyone in the world when they do go our way. The difference...you don't see posts like, "see, this is why we're the best team in the last 20 years" when we win and "ugh, well, hope you like our team, kansas city" when we lose.

I have noticed that some good posters aren't posting as much and that does bum me out...but on the other hand, some posters that weren't posting as much...Stranger, PredDave, SLake...to name a few....have made a place on this board. The key is to just...know what to pay attention to and what to filter out

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04-20-2007, 05:29 PM
  #239
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i do apologize, that post was directly from NP.com and many of the points that i left in weren't directed toward posters on this board (i edited some out, but obviously not others that i should have)..

it's been wild trying to hold off the doomsayers over there these last few days

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