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Will Trotz be fired?

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Old
04-20-2007, 02:54 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
The manager is let go....not always because it is the right decision, but because it is the easier decision.

I think the hate-on for Trotz colors many posters perception that firing Trotz is the only solution.

Now going three one and dones in a row, may in fact, be the straw that broke the camel's back, and may be Trotz's final undoing....but don't come crying to me when we are on the outside, looking in at the playoffs next year wondering how it could have ever happened.
I don't think Trotz is totally to blame...and I agree this may not pay immediate dividends...that's why there are certain players of which I've made no secret that I wouldn't be devastated if they were let go.

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04-20-2007, 02:59 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Trotz View Post
If it takes 1-3 years to a) get the right coach b) the right players that coach desires and c) that coach has a history of being able to take a recent team into the playoffs (more than one round) then so be it ... because Trotz has not yet either 1) win one on the road in the playoffs or 2) shown the ability to get his team in the right position to make that next leap (as evidenced by the zero shots in the first 15 minutes of the 3rd period in game 4) ... then so be it
That 1-3 years, unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of waiting in this market for.
If we go through a overhaul phase where we have to miss the playoffs during that time to get ramped up again....the Preds will be in KC, Las Vegas, or Houston because season ticket sales will again plummet....corporate sponsors will dry up even more and we won't hit revenue sharing marks.
David Legwand told me, point blank, that he will not resign with this team if it goes into rebuilding mode....and I am sure he is not the only one that feels that way.

No, this decision, has to be done in the right way....with a proven winner that doesn't need to tinker alot with personnel to bring his winning systems and techniques to Nashville......time will tell if that person is out there and wants to take the Preds to a higher level.

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04-20-2007, 03:25 PM
  #28
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First of all, I'm not sure if the team does go down the path of not resigning / firing Trotz if we lose this series. You always want to keep stability, as long as it isn't hampering going to the next level. David Poile has some tough decisions ahead of him.

Bringing in a new coach doesn't have to bring in drastic changes depending on who is selected. I doubt David Poile would get a trapping coach since we don't have the lineup for a system like that. I think if Poile went down the path of getting a new coach, then he'd get someone who could work with the players we have.

This is also our biggest summer in terms of UFA. Kariya, Hartnell, Forsberg and Timonen could all very well walk. Our coaching situation has an impact on that too. However, so does a first round exit. Timonen is going to cash in this summer, Hartnell may jump ship depending on the coaching situation, Kariya is likely to go somewhere to win a cup while Forsberg might retire or go somewhere to win a cup.

However, changing the coach might show the players that the organization is going to settle on losing in the first round. It would show we are serious about winning the cup.

It will be a tough decision.

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04-20-2007, 03:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
First of all, I'm not sure if the team does go down the path of not resigning / firing Trotz if we lose this series. You always want to keep stability, as long as it isn't hampering going to the next level. David Poile has some tough decisions ahead of him.

Bringing in a new coach doesn't have to bring in drastic changes depending on who is selected. I doubt David Poile would get a trapping coach since we don't have the lineup for a system like that. I think if Poile went down the path of getting a new coach, then he'd get someone who could work with the players we have.

This is also our biggest summer in terms of UFA. Kariya, Hartnell, Forsberg and Timonen could all very well walk. Our coaching situation has an impact on that too. However, so does a first round exit. Timonen is going to cash in this summer, Hartnell may jump ship depending on the coaching situation, Kariya is likely to go somewhere to win a cup while Forsberg might retire or go somewhere to win a cup.

However, changing the coach might show the players that the organization is going to settle on losing in the first round. It would show we are serious about winning the cup.

It will be a tough decision.

Well Said.

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04-20-2007, 04:00 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazeltherabbit View Post
Well Said.
So my non bolded stuff isn't well said?

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04-23-2007, 07:22 AM
  #31
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Looks like Leipold is giving Trotz a pass for getting knocked out again and our late season slide because of injuries...
Leipold: Trotz hampered by injured Preds

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04-23-2007, 09:02 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RollingPredFan View Post
Looks like Leipold is giving Trotz a pass for getting knocked out again and our late season slide because of injuries...
Leipold: Trotz hampered by injured Preds
Well that's gonna do wonders in selling more tickets to new fans

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04-23-2007, 09:19 AM
  #33
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Every team has injuries. I could understand this last season since much of the Preds roster were with the MilAds on opening day.

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04-23-2007, 09:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AdmiralPred View Post
Every team has injuries. I could understand this last season since much of the Preds roster were with the MilAds on opening day.
What does the banner say in the locker room ? ... that's right "NO EXCUSES"

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04-23-2007, 10:04 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Trotz View Post
What does the banner say in the locker room ? ... that's right "NO EXCUSES"
Kind of my point. Although after re-reading my post I made it sound like this past season rather than the 05-06 run. Appologies.

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04-23-2007, 10:12 AM
  #36
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No, season was fine....too bad Sullivan, Erat, Radulov and if you want to, Upshall was missing...you have been a three lines team, but in the PO only two worked...

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Old
04-23-2007, 10:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
So my non bolded stuff isn't well said?
Sooooo sensitive. the entire thing was "well said". I Just bolded the parts that I thought drove the point home.

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Old
04-23-2007, 08:57 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
But any winning, proven coach brings in his systems....and just doesn't change everything he has won with, to our group of guys right off the bat.
A transition time has to be expected to develop his "typical" results....you can't expect that to happen right off the bat.

As far as Detroit, that is a bad analogy in my mind....they have a proven puck control system that works...we have no such animal.

We have a speed team, with undersized puck moving defensemen....short of gutting the team...that is what we are going to have unless a major overall is enacted.
Legwand, Sully, Erat, Radulov, Dumont, Arnott, Tootoo are signed on the front line.
Weber, Suter, Zids, and Hamhuis are signed on the back line.
Making a significant change and additions to that core any time soon is going to be extremely expensive through free agency.

I am not saying that a coaching change is not warranted, but any of you that think that we are just going to sail on deep into the Playoffs next year with a major coaching regime change and all the change in systems, chemistry, and organizational upheaval that all that entails are being naive. It is certainly not a given for that to happen.

On the other hand, if "the room" feels that Trotz and the whole coaching staff is the reason that they aren't succeeding in the Playoffs....then a total regime change is necessary.
I don't think the verdict is in yet on that question, though.

New Jersey???

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Old
04-23-2007, 10:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bburton86 View Post
New Jersey???
What about New Jersey? Lou Lamiorello is still there and hires coaches to run the same system that he and Jacques Lemaire popularized in the Swamp in the 90's. Also having Martin Brodeur is a luxury indeed.

I totally agree with what Handtrick has to say. A coach with a successful resume is going to want to use the same systems that have given him success in the past and unless they are similiar to those run by Trotz and Co. we're talking about rebuilding. Introducing a new system not only takes time (although having the team from training camp will go a long way), but it also takes either a complete or partial retooling of the roster with players that fit whatever system a new coach brings in.

Within our own division this summer we will see Columbus (Hitchcock and MacLean), St. Louis (Murray), and even to an extent Chicago (Savard - although he has been an assistant there for a while) jettison many players that no longer fit there system or have out lived their usefulness. Now, I'm not saying that every team doesn't change their roster from year-to-year, but it is common to see a major turnover during the summer anytime there is a midseason coaching change.

I'm really split on this issue, but I would be willing to accept giving Trotz a one-year extentsion with a short leash (ie: anything less than competing for the Central Division title again is not acceptable) given a retooling of roster with an emphasis on size on the wings, but without giving up our major threat of speed (big guys that can skate average to above average - Jason Ward, Taylor Pyatt, Jed Ortmeyer, etc) and the addition of at least one veteran stay-at-home physical defenseman.

But then again, I have my concerns as well. I'm glad to see that there has not been any snap decisions and that it appears that Leipold and Poile will take their time to discuss this decision and subsequently explore all of their options. As long as there is a definite direction of the franchise before the end of the playoffs I'll be happy. Should this remain in limbo heading into the draft, not only will we have trouble resigning some of our free agents that want to know what direction the franchise is headed, but we will also have difficulty signing unrestricted free agents on the open market and maybe even struggle to sign our European draft picks.

Just my thoughts, take them for what their worth

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04-24-2007, 12:45 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hazeltherabbit View Post
Sooooo sensitive. the entire thing was "well said". I Just bolded the parts that I thought drove the point home.
I was kidding

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04-24-2007, 06:53 AM
  #41
handtrick
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Well, well, well.....I see the "Fire Trotz" crowd is whipping it into a full frenzy around here.....doesn't surprise me at all.
Seems the players [what do they know?] don't share the same sentiment:

I think guys respect him and guys play hard for him," Predators Captain Kimmo Timonen said. "He's a genuinely very nice man, and that goes a long ways because it is such a cut-throat business.

"You need to win, you want to win, and it's very stressful. Every single day you need to put up points and you have to show something. We got 110 points during the season, and that doesn't happen by accident. It's really out of my control, but I wouldn't be surprised if he stays here."

"You look at his winning percentage over the last three years, and it's right up there with the great coaches of this league," Predators forward Scott Nichol said. "We play hard, and he gets things done. I am not the owner or the GM, but they have to be happy with what we have accomplished even though we haven't gone on in the playoffs."

"(The coach is) the first guy to be blamed every time there is not success," Predators forward J.P. Dumont said. "Everybody says it is easier to change one guy than 20. That's the way that every sport looks at it, but as much as coaches get guys ready, if we don't do it on the ice, a coach can't do anything about that."

"He shouldn't take the brunt of it, absolutely not," said Sullivan, who was one of several injured Predators to miss some or all of the playoffs. "I think we all failed. You know what I mean?"


http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....704240359/1028

Kariya, the first big-name free agent to sign with Nashville in 2005, said Trotz has been one of his best coaches and deserved to return for a ninth season.

"You can argue the team has overachieved. That's in large part to his job as coach. He's done a terrific job here," Kariya said. "He's the last person that should be blamed for the way things have gone."


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...114765-ap.html

____

But hey....what do the players and Leipold know anyway.......

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04-24-2007, 07:22 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
Well, well, well.....I see the "Fire Trotz" crowd is whipping it into a full frenzy around here.....doesn't surprise me at all.
Seems the players [what do they know?] don't share the same sentiment:

I think guys respect him and guys play hard for him," Predators Captain Kimmo Timonen said. "He's a genuinely very nice man, and that goes a long ways because it is such a cut-throat business.

"You need to win, you want to win, and it's very stressful. Every single day you need to put up points and you have to show something. We got 110 points during the season, and that doesn't happen by accident. It's really out of my control, but I wouldn't be surprised if he stays here."

"You look at his winning percentage over the last three years, and it's right up there with the great coaches of this league," Predators forward Scott Nichol said. "We play hard, and he gets things done. I am not the owner or the GM, but they have to be happy with what we have accomplished even though we haven't gone on in the playoffs."

"(The coach is) the first guy to be blamed every time there is not success," Predators forward J.P. Dumont said. "Everybody says it is easier to change one guy than 20. That's the way that every sport looks at it, but as much as coaches get guys ready, if we don't do it on the ice, a coach can't do anything about that."

"He shouldn't take the brunt of it, absolutely not," said Sullivan, who was one of several injured Predators to miss some or all of the playoffs. "I think we all failed. You know what I mean?"


http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....704240359/1028

Kariya, the first big-name free agent to sign with Nashville in 2005, said Trotz has been one of his best coaches and deserved to return for a ninth season.

"You can argue the team has overachieved. That's in large part to his job as coach. He's done a terrific job here," Kariya said. "He's the last person that should be blamed for the way things have gone."


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...114765-ap.html

____

But hey....what do the players and Leipold know anyway.......

Did you expect them to say any different?

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Old
04-24-2007, 07:40 AM
  #43
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I like what Vokoun said more:

Quote:
"Yes we did have injuries, but I don't think that decided the series," Vokoun said. "(The Sharks) just played better, they executed better, they game-planned better. You can say what you want, but as individuals and as a team, we just didn't execute our system well enough to win."
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....58/1328/SPORTS

And it bothers me that a Captain was making excuses to be honest.

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04-24-2007, 08:05 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
What about New Jersey? Lou Lamiorello is still there and hires coaches to run the same system that he and Jacques Lemaire popularized in the Swamp in the 90's.
So Nashville doesn't have the ability to hire coaches that fit the system that is in place?

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Old
04-24-2007, 08:37 AM
  #45
handtrick
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Did you expect them to say any different?
If they thought that he was the major reason they didn't advance, they certainly wouldn't have come out and defended him.

The reason[s] that we didn't advance doesn't fit in to the neat little package of "Fire Trotz," it is much more multifactoral than that...but the bottom line is that the player's didn't get it done on the ice....and they, for the most part have acknowledged that.

It is interesting....I called XM radio and asked Phil Esposito....where does the buck stop when you are assigning blame for failure for a team not getting the job done....
His response was that in all his years as a player, GM, and coach....he has never seen a game where the loss was the coaches fault...it always rests with the players not getting the job done on the ice, and it is their responsibility to bring it, not the coaches.
....One may not agree with Phil, but I thought it was an interesting perspective from a guy that should know a little more about it than any of us armchair GMs...

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04-24-2007, 10:58 AM
  #46
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Players, and retired players (Espo) are delusional. On a team with a "nice" coach, the guys feel like he has done everything for them. They like him, and so when they play poorly, it's just because they didn't do what they are supposed to do, when in reality, they did everything in their power and it was a coaches faulty system or lack of proper decision making that lead to their demise. The players know they didn't win though, and they can't possibly blame it on a guy who they feel is right for them.

Ultimately, you have to look at this objectively. I don't know who can do that. Fans obviously want more than 110 points and a first round exit three years in a row, two years in a row to the same team. Management and players like the coach, and think that it could be much worse. Coaching changes are a necessary evil sometimes, and when a team needs a boost, the coach may be the first to go. Look at the Devils this year. Lou fires the coach during a winning streak near the end of the season, takes the team to the playoffs, and so far have performed very well.

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04-24-2007, 11:17 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
Players, and retired players (Espo) are delusional.
Wow, that's an intersting way to preface your point!



I agree that both the players execution and the coach's scheme play a part in a teams ability to win games. A black/white example is the issue of physicality. All things being equal, if a team's coach feels that his team is much quicker, and better offensively, perhaps he ditches physical play, and goes run and gun. However, if he plays a team that plays very physical - and can at least keep up with you speed wise, and has a few goal scorers - even if their offense is not as good as yours - you might have to adjust your game and up your physicality 'to adjust'.

Just a small example, IMO, where a coach who cannot adjust his game plan might fall, even if his players are executing perfectly what he wants...

Also, I spent a few lost nights of sleep watching both the Preds and the Islanders...IMO the Islanders had no business being in that series with Buffalo. And, I don't care what game plan Ted Nolan came up with, on paper he did not have the horses to compete...However, those guys (with one of the oldest and most experienced rosters in the league - just not together!) came out and went balls to the wall for that whole series! In game five, down by 3, they played their guts out, scored 2 goals, and almost got the win!

So, in closing, I guess I didn't solve the argument, coaching or players, but added a bit to it.

Wolves at Ads tonight at 7 CST. Watch on B2! Go Admirals!

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04-24-2007, 11:42 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
Players, and retired players (Espo) are delusional. On a team with a "nice" coach, the guys feel like he has done everything for them. They like him, and so when they play poorly, it's just because they didn't do what they are supposed to do, when in reality, they did everything in their power and it was a coaches faulty system or lack of proper decision making that lead to their demise. The players know they didn't win though, and they can't possibly blame it on a guy who they feel is right for them.

Ultimately, you have to look at this objectively. I don't know who can do that. Fans obviously want more than 110 points and a first round exit three years in a row, two years in a row to the same team. Management and players like the coach, and think that it could be much worse. Coaching changes are a necessary evil sometimes, and when a team needs a boost, the coach may be the first to go. Look at the Devils this year. Lou fires the coach during a winning streak near the end of the season, takes the team to the playoffs, and so far have performed very well.
Basher, I think you make valid points.

I would also like to add that I am not sure that David Poile, himself, knows what it takes to go deep into the Playoffs like Lou does.
In 24 straight years of being a GM, Poile has only got to the third round once, and second round five times....Lou has, what, 4 Cups?

Lou [and Brodeur] saw that Julien's way of focusing the team was "lacking" what it took to be a Cup contender this year [most reports are that he was too lax on the team]....so Lou made the change and inserted himself...with reasonable results up to this point.

Poile does not have the coaching experience to ever do what Lou did himself....but I would also argue that having never made a run to to the Cup Finals in 24 years of being a GM......I don't think David Poile really knows what it takes to put together the puzzle to make a team that has what it truly takes to make it through the entire grind we know as the Stanley Cup Finals......both the player puzzle and the coaching philosophy to make it materialize.

So....the players and Trotz deserve their share of the blame, but Poile should not be exempt here.....HIS playoff record would state otherwise.

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04-24-2007, 11:59 AM
  #49
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I don't know exactly where to place the emphasis, if it was lack of adjustment (on the coach), lack of execution (on the players), or lack of health and luck (on the hockey gods). One thing was for sure, the Preds were stagnant going into the playoffs. Wins against playoff-bound teams were hard to come by and judging by the vibe I got reading through a few GDTs, it didn't sound like the team was firing on all cylinders down the stretch. It certainly didn't look like it after Game 2. Every team is going to be banged up to some extent when the post season rolls around but, if the team isn't playing up to their game, isn't gellin', or is in a funk the proverbial "it" isn't going to happen. Anyone who's played competatively on a team will know what I'm talking about, and all the attempts at proper execution and any adjustments, more than likely, will not work. The teams that have the chemestry and are playing their best hockey should float to the top. The rest, execution, adjustments, etc. seem to come naturally. With all that, where does it leave the coach?

EDIT: And now having read through handtrick's post, the GM?

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04-24-2007, 12:23 PM
  #50
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I hope he stays in the very likely event that the Sharks have to threepeat next season. Although I love the lineup Poile has put together and think he will continue to improve it next season, Trotz faltered pretty badly after the first two games.

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