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4th Line Idea

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Old
04-26-2007, 10:50 AM
  #1
blue2noise
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4th Line Idea

I just posted this on Sam's blog too...

If Rosie comes back, why not replace an inneffective Holloweg with Pock on the 4th line as a forward, then slip him back to D if needed so they will never have to worry about playing with 5 D again?

This also gives the 4th line more offensive potential and better defensive responsibility with "checking line" abilities.

Just a thought.

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04-26-2007, 10:56 AM
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
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That idea was posted already. If Rozsival is out this idea is moot.

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04-26-2007, 11:23 AM
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WhipNash27
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Replace Hollweg with Isbister. At least Isbister is a poor man's Hossa. Hollweg was useless last night. I didn't see him throw one big hit. Buffalo is too quick to run around throwing hits after they pass the puck. All you do is trap yourself.

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04-26-2007, 11:25 AM
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I Am Chariot
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I 2nd Isbister.

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04-26-2007, 11:40 AM
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Evgeny Oliker
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...

I like the Pock idea a lot if Rozsival is back...and the Isbister idea if Rozi is out.

Hollweg should sit.

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04-26-2007, 11:44 AM
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I didn't have a problem with Hollweg last night other than a little rust. Not sure what's to be gained by replacing him with an equally rusty Isbister.

Pock for Hollweg does make sense though given Rachunek's performance and the questions surrounding Rozsival.

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04-26-2007, 11:44 AM
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94now
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Pock to replace Rozy. Hossa played so well that I no longer can compare Isbo to him. I think Hollweg can play better. He was thrown in with no time to adjust. I'd give him another chance on Fri. Isbister is no better unless plays on 1st.

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04-26-2007, 11:46 AM
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The only way Rachunek should be in the Ranger line-up is if Rozsival can't go. After last night, rust or not, this guy was a disaster last night.

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04-26-2007, 11:50 AM
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WhipNash27
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Isbister has some offensive skill at least. He's a big body who can help the 4th line keep the puck deep in the offensive zone. While Hollweg doesn't do anything when he has the puck except dump it in and go for a hit.

Against a team like this, you need to keep them out of your zone for as long as you can. That's why Isbister even if he doesn't get one point, is a better choice than Hollweg.


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04-26-2007, 12:19 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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I really can't believe anybody is talking about changing the 4th line or an "ineffective" Hollweg...The 4th line barely got any ice time and when they did, they were just fine..Played even with the Sabres...The problem lies with the stupid penalties, the D and the last night's horrendous play of Shany-Straka-Avery...

The Sabres need to be forechecked, Hollweg is the only candidate on a "4th line" to do that and was at least putting in the effort..Isbister is too slow...Orr even slower...

As for dressing Pock as a 7th D-man..WHy? His defense is pretty much sub standard, what does he bringto the table?

Back to the 4th line, the only option to me that makes sense over Hollweg would be a speedier skater from Hartford like Dawes or Bourett....

But again, the 4th line had nothingto do with last night...So many problems were elsewhere..

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04-26-2007, 12:21 PM
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WhipNash27
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I thought the Rachunek/Mara pair was terrible. Pock and Mara have been playing with each other for a while now. You think taking Pock out may have had an effect on Mara?

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04-26-2007, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyF27 View Post
I thought the Rachunek/Mara pair was terrible. Pock and Mara have been playing with each other for a while now. You think taking Pock out may have had an effect on Mara?
Mara and Rachunek were playing really well before Rachunek go hurt. So no, I don't think had an effect. I think they both made a bad play.

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04-26-2007, 12:48 PM
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Mara wasn't exactly perfect when he was with Pock either.

And it snot like Pock is extremely good either... He was getting not too many minutes and rightfully so.


The Rangers strength was in their first two pairs with Malik and Rozsival and then Tyutin-Girardi. You take one of those guys out (especially a Rozsival who plays on every 1st unit we have) and you are hurting.


Looking forward to next year when we hopefully add a Staal to the mix with maybe Mara.

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04-26-2007, 12:52 PM
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Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Mara and Rachunek were playing really well before Rachunek go hurt. So no, I don't think had an effect. I think they both made a bad play.
I second this, before Rachunek went down he was playing well. My only problems is it's the play offs and a rusty D-man against the Sabres is a nightmare waiting to happen. I say play Pock he's got the speed and he was good in the first round. He's kind of a pawn in this organization never getting a shot 100% always knowing he's going to be replaced by someone and frankly I don't think he's that bad.

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04-26-2007, 01:01 PM
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Hollweg did his job with the amount of ice time he had..... He did force a few turnovers in the Buffalo end with the presure from his line, early in the game.....


Last edited by The Big Apple: 04-26-2007 at 05:36 PM.
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04-26-2007, 01:06 PM
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TomLaidlaw
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Is Hollweg really our problem right now? The 4th line really didn't play that bad. I don't know why we keep ignoringthe glaring problem from last nights game, our 2nd Line. Our 3rd line played the best of all 4 lines line in my opinion. Our 1st was ok at certain points but dissapeared at other times and our 4th line was fine. Our 2nd line last night was on the ice for every even strength goal and they looked absolutely brutal. I brought this up last night but there was too much conspiracy "the league are sabre fans" talk to have a coherent conversation about the actual game.
Shanny needs to drastically improve his performance next game for us to have a chance. Not only did he misplay the face off win in the Buffalo zone that led to the 2nd Buff goal but every shift he looked like he was in quicksand out there. Everytime our 2nd line was on the ice bad things were happening. Is anyone else alarmed by this? Normally i think +/- is a worthless stat but last night it was pretty indicative of Shannys play (-4). I don't know if its the speed of Buffalo or what but he looked a step behind everyone on the ice.
I love Shanny and he isn't the only reason we lost last night. His linemates didn't exactly have a great game either and Rachunek and Mara played possibly the worst defensive game I've seen since we called up Lawrence Nycholat a few years ago. With that said Shanny needs to get off the PK. Our two forwards on the Pk need to be speed guys to get to the Buffalo point men because their puck movement is so good. Betts/Cullen, Ortmeyer/Straka should be our two sets of PK forwards.

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04-26-2007, 01:23 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Is Hollweg really our problem right now? The 4th line really didn't play that bad. I don't know why we keep ignoringthe glaring problem from last nights game, our 2nd Line. Our 3rd line played the best of all 4 lines line in my opinion. Our 1st was ok at certain points but dissapeared at other times and our 4th line was fine. Our 2nd line last night was on the ice for every even strength goal and they looked absolutely brutal. I brought this up last night but there was too much conspiracy "the league are sabre fans" talk to have a coherent conversation about the actual game.
Shanny needs to drastically improve his performance next game for us to have a chance. Not only did he misplay the face off win in the Buffalo zone that led to the 2nd Buff goal but every shift he looked like he was in quicksand out there. Everytime our 2nd line was on the ice bad things were happening. Is anyone else alarmed by this? Normally i think +/- is a worthless stat but last night it was pretty indicative of Shannys play (-4). I don't know if its the speed of Buffalo or what but he looked a step behind everyone on the ice.
I love Shanny and he isn't the only reason we lost last night. His linemates didn't exactly have a great game either and Rachunek and Mara played possibly the worst defensive game I've seen since we called up Lawrence Nycholat a few years ago. With that said Shanny needs to get off the PK. Our two forwards on the Pk need to be speed guys to get to the Buffalo point men because their puck movement is so good. Betts/Cullen, Ortmeyer/Straka should be our two sets of PK forwards.
Bingo and I mentioned the same up above...Shanny looked slow and old last night and the entire line was horrible...

The D was disrupted by the injury but they were still backing up almost the entire night..Deadly against a team like the Sabres..ANd they made some bad choices..With or without Rozy, this was always the key to me--how the Ranger D handled the pressure of the Sabres speed

Instead of rsoter changes, what we need is the team to stay out of the box and allow Renney to give his 3rd and 4th line a little more time..These are the two lines that can forecheck the Sabrews a little and hopefully make things easier for the 1st tow lines--both of which need to play with Passion..And while we are forechecking, we also need to clog the neutral zone much better....All comes down to defense and slowingthem down..

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04-26-2007, 01:26 PM
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WhipNash27
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3rd line was the best line last night. I hate that Renney is giving them so little ice time. Say what you want, but there was 44:11 of even stength time in this game. Therefore, if line 2 was playing a stinker of a game, why was Avery out for 12.5 minutes but Callahan for 9, Prucha for 7 and Cullen for 10? This is all even strength BTW.

Yeah they were all close, but if a line is playing like crap on a given night, and another line is playing well, you give the line that's playing good more ice time, not less or about the same.

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04-26-2007, 01:41 PM
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honestly, i saw a few plays last night that made me realzie why hollweeg never scores...he was crashing the net at one point with his stick parrael to the ice....best part is the pass to the middle went off the d man blocking ryan and his stick never got close to the ice.

is it possible that we ruched him a bit so his offensive instinks are there, but he doesn't know what to do with them?

and yes, shanny looked terrible all night last night

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04-26-2007, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Bingo and I mentioned the same up above...Shanny looked slow and old last night and the entire line was horrible...

The D was disrupted by the injury but they were still backing up almost the entire night..Deadly against a team like the Sabres..ANd they made some bad choices..With or without Rozy, this was always the key to me--how the Ranger D handled the pressure of the Sabres speed

Instead of rsoter changes, what we need is the team to stay out of the box and allow Renney to give his 3rd and 4th line a little more time..These are the two lines that can forecheck the Sabrews a little and hopefully make things easier for the 1st tow lines--both of which need to play with Passion..And while we are forechecking, we also need to clog the neutral zone much better....All comes down to defense and slowingthem down..
I agree. Our D was backing up all night and the one time we tried to be aggresive rachunek made a bad choice and took himself out of the play and Mara ended up on his belly and the puck in the net. We need to make better decisions defensively. Watching Shanny on the PK last night was like watching Messier his last year here before the lockout when he was on the PK for no reason and the opposing teams point men weren't pressured at all because Mess just didn't have the speed to get to them.

My concern is that the problem with Shanny may not be fixable. Maybe last night is his top speed and he simply can't keep up with a team like Buffalos speed at this point in his career. I guess we'll see what happens in Game 2.

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04-26-2007, 01:46 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Nich View Post
honestly, i saw a few plays last night that made me realzie why hollweeg never scores...he was crashing the net at one point with his stick parrael to the ice....best part is the pass to the middle went off the d man blocking ryan and his stick never got close to the ice.

is it possible that we ruched him a bit so his offensive instinks are there, but he doesn't know what to do with them?
That's OK, give him four more years and maybe he'll approach Orts' standards....Orts is the 4th line guy that I thought was especially worthless last night..But he needs to be kept in for the PK...

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04-26-2007, 01:51 PM
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That's OK, give him four more years and maybe he'll approach Orts' standards....Orts is the 4th line guy that I thought was especially worthless last night..But he needs to be kept in for the PK...
I think Orts has been subpar for a while now.

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04-26-2007, 01:58 PM
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TomLaidlaw
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I think Orts has been subpar for a while now.
I think the organization as a whole views Ortmeyer as someone who is very replaceable. I think a clear message was sent when they re upped Orr and Hollweg and not Ortmeyer. Anyone else get this feeling?

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04-26-2007, 02:00 PM
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
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I think the organization as a whole views Ortmeyer as someone who is very replaceable. I think a clear message was sent when they re upped Orr and Hollweg and not Ortmeyer. Anyone else get this feeling?
Orr and Hollweg were RFAs I believe. Orts a UFA.

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04-26-2007, 02:29 PM
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TomLaidlaw
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Orr and Hollweg were RFAs I believe. Orts a UFA.
Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if they let him walk with little to no attempt to retain him and filled his role with a Dubinsky type player.

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