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Trotz and Company Extended for Next Year

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Old
05-04-2007, 10:57 AM
  #1
handtrick
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Trotz and Company Extended for Next Year

Trotz and Company extended for next year.

http://www.nashvillepredators.com/pr...?story_id=1353

Let the whining and gnashing of teeth begin....

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05-04-2007, 11:09 AM
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AdsSabresRule
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Excuses...

Well, I am torn. I like the coaching staff - maybe your special teams coach could get switched out...But, then again, when you go out of the playoffs in the fashion that the Preds do - and even though we had injuries, no doubt - to have the 'boss' talking about how he would not change a thing, and the 'A' game was brought...Geez. I would hate to see the 'B' game!

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05-04-2007, 11:22 AM
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Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by AdsSabresRule View Post
Well, I am torn. I like the coaching staff - maybe your special teams coach could get switched out...But, then again, when you go out of the playoffs in the fashion that the Preds do - and even though we had injuries, no doubt - to have the 'boss' talking about how he would not change a thing, and the 'A' game was brought...Geez. I would hate to see the 'B' game!
... couldn't have said it as well as you did ... thank you

and I also wonder how this is going to effect business sales ... because I'm sure they love paying money to get booted out of the playoffs in the first round every year


Last edited by Joe T Choker: 05-04-2007 at 11:30 AM.
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05-04-2007, 11:39 AM
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I had a feeling Trotz and Peterson would be back, but the one thing I thought HAD to be changed as Horachek as the power play coach.

With the personnel we've had, the past couple of years, our power play has been awfully inconsistent...including falling into the bottom half of the league, this past season.

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05-04-2007, 11:41 AM
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I won't whine. Maybe there was no one better to replace available, I dunno. But a one year deal isn't exactly saying that they have all the confidence in the world with him either LOL

I guess next year will be a make or break year for him I would guess.

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05-04-2007, 11:44 AM
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Who's to say that Trotz & co. won't get canned at Christmas time if they are underachieving?

I hope Poile is able to find some good puzzle pieces this summer to help alleviate our depth at forward.

I'm really not all that worried about our defense or goaltending. But, our flower play is ridiculous!

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05-04-2007, 11:47 AM
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Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by PredDave View Post
Who's to say that Trotz & co. won't get canned at Christmas time if they are underachieving?

I hope Poile is able to find some good puzzle pieces this summer to help alleviate our depth at forward.

I'm really not all that worried about our defense or goaltending. But, our flower play is ridiculous!
Our defense MUST add a Physical Defensive Defenseman in the mold of a Scott Hannan or else we will be out on our @$$ in the first round again next post season

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05-04-2007, 12:12 PM
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handtrick
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Seriously...I think Trotz and company will be on a short leash this year.

Of note, when I posted this thread, I called in the info to XM 204 Home Ice....they were having a round table discussion on "The War Room".....they to a man, all said that Trotz and company deserved to be rehired for another year and this year's early exit shouldn't have altered that a bit.

I think a non biased view from "hockey people" that don't have an emotional interest in the team should be significant for those that want to look outside of their own perspective for a minute.

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05-04-2007, 12:38 PM
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Seth Lake
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I'm happy with this decision and believe that it was the best decision for the franchise overall. The one thing that does bother me is that Horachek was retained and that this does not allow for Claude Noel to move up from the AHL level to take over in Horachek's position.

We still might see some shifting of the assistants if they are offered positions outside the organization this summer and while I don't believe it will be Horachek that is likely looked at for another position, it might still open up that elusive position for Noel to rise through the ranks.

There simply was not a coach available out on the open market that would have made this decision an easy one to make a change without uprooting a lot of what this organization has accomplished to this point. Of the top names that I've seen people throwing around, Crisp has been away from the bench for a long time and would be a risky pick that would probably turn away some free agents based on the fact that Crispy has been in the media longer than they have been playing. Pat Quinn I don't think would ever be interested in coming to Nashville, nor did he have much success in his most recent position with Toronto and has a very standoffish vibe about himself. Claude Noel has no NHL experience at all and would have been a big risk, especially when you consider that he never played at the NHL level either.

If I were to throw a name into the hat it would have been Tampa Bay assistant coach Craig Ramsey who has had success as a player, an assistant coach, and as a head coach at the NHL level. The Lightning play a style of hockey that I believe is similar to what many around here are clammoring for, except they have a superstar center in Vinny Lecavalier and snipers like Martin St. Louis and Brad Richards. I think our personnel, although lacking a superstar center, could be very similar to them with some added productivity and size on the third and fourth lines and maybe the addition of one physical defensive defenseman back on the blueline. Then again...Tampa Bay did get bumped in the first round too.

Overall though, I'm pleased with the decision and believe that it provides a stable platform from which to work from to reload the roster and tweak the systems for the 2007-08 season. As posters have mentioned above, I believe that Trotz and Co. will be on a short leash and assuming that we maintain a roster that is comparable to the talent we had this season (prior to the Forsberg trade) anything less than competing for the Central Division title will be unacceptable during the regular season and that will not be as easy with Columbus, Chicago, and St. Louis rapidly improving under their new coaches with all three bringing along young prospects and undoubtedly bringing in some veterans to fill their holes and fit their systems. Obviously a lack of playoff success mean a swift kick out the door at season's end...regardless of why it happened.

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05-04-2007, 01:24 PM
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I'm pretty mixed, but I'm leaning in favor of the extension. However, if the team is under performing by the All Star break I hope that a change will be made to get things going again. We cannot afford another slip into the postseason.

I've been pretty harsh on Trotz and rightfully so. We've improved our team the past 2 offseasons and have had the same result in the playoffs. I know we've gotten hit hard by injuries the past two seasons, but it cannot be used as an excuse again. Anytime you see things like Trotz throwing out a 4th line with a faceoff deep in the other teams zone down two goals, you scratch your head.

Again, we're going to see if Trotz can take the team to the next step or prove that he's simply a coach who gets the most out of 4th liners.

With all that being said, the reason I am in favor of this move is how it can perhaps help us with Free Agency. I think the players appreciate stability. If we cleaned house, we might be faced with getting a new coach, perhaps a new system and a new set of players. I think we'd have a harder time making the playoffs the next season. On the flip side, some free agents might think that we settle for losing in the first round, but who knows. I think it will have a better overall effect keeping Trotz in terms of Free Agents and how we do this offseason.

Now that we have some stability, I would like to hear why we lost this series from the organization and what we are going to do to improve things other then blame injuries. I think if Poile plays his cards right, we can still improve our team. I think its more important for our market to keep Trotz then to fire him. Firing Trotz would generate a huge amount of negative press around Nashville, at a time we do not need it. I'd love to think people might think, "Wow they are serious about winning, thats great" but it will be spun as "They're losing ground and fading out". Even before the playoffs, the good ole boys of the Tennessean were sometimes guests on 104.5 talking about how wrong it was to think Trotz might get fired for not getting results.

Anyway, I'm generally mixed on the issue. On one hand, I want to get someone who I'm more confident in taking us to the next level, but fear that we might actually take a step back (not saying it happens every time). While on the other hand I want the stability in terms of keeping / bringing in new players and for our market.

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05-04-2007, 01:29 PM
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My only real concern is that from some of the rhetoric coming from Trotz, Leipold and Poile...it's almost like they believe that this year was a "fluke" in how it ended. While we had our share of injuries, I still don't believe that we got the most out of what we had left. There were too many no-shows in the playoffs to make that easy to stomach. That's just dealing with the playoffs, as well. Another troubling fact is that this year, we once again played ourself into a bad position, late in the year. In numerous interviews, I've heard the above say, "If we had won one of those games late against Detroit, we would have won the division."

Alright, but...we didn't, and I don't think of it as "Oh, we were so close to winning the division," it seems more like, "how were we that close and we came out with such miserable efforts in those games, then?" It would have been one thing if we had lost a close game, but we were outright dominated by a team that was also missing key contributors. Why does this team struggle so much in big, "must-win" games? Again...this is another worry I have with the current coaching staff.

As I mentioned...I'm a little more even-tempered about this than some...I did lean toward feeling that we needed to go another way, but I can accept this. My concerns are that if Trotz\the team falters..it's not going to be in October-January. We're traditionally a great team through those months. If we have a hiccup, it's going to be in February-April...and by then, unless you're Lou Lamoirello, it's typically too late to do anything about it. My other concern is that if the personnel mentioned before truly believe last season and especially this season were more "bad luck" than a cause for alarm, that we're going to basically field the same lineup and give it another shot next year. To me, of all of our UFAs, Hartnell is really the only one I want to see back. I don't feel Kariya deserves a raise that he'll undoubtedly ask for(they don't look at where those points came or how they came) and the money Timonen is rumored to be asking for is beyond what he's worth...but again, I'd not be surprised to see both Timonen and Kariya back and Hartnell gone.

It's a frustrating time of year, because so much of this is still months away from being settled, and all we can do is sit and wait.

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05-04-2007, 01:32 PM
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I guess this means Poile had a conversation with Leipold then? He mentioned on the radio the other day during the Post Season Wrapup that he would have to talk with Leipold before deciding the coach's fates. He also mentioned talking about a budget depending on what our revenues are predicted for next season.

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05-04-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
Seriously...I think Trotz and company will be on a short leash this year.

Of note, when I posted this thread, I called in the info to XM 204 Home Ice....they were having a round table discussion on "The War Room".....they to a man, all said that Trotz and company deserved to be rehired for another year and this year's early exit shouldn't have altered that a bit.

I think a non biased view from "hockey people" that don't have an emotional interest in the team should be significant for those that want to look outside of their own perspective for a minute.
True enough. But you have to weigh the non-biased view of "hockey people" with their general ignorance of the Predators situation. No offense to most 'hockey analysts' but they can no more name the ten 'actual' best Preds than they can their mom's grammar school crush. The way hockey is currently set up, it's exceedingly difficult to follow all but a handful of teams on any significant level. These guys may have a non-biased view, but I'm not sure they are all as informed as we'd like.

As for my opinion, I probably would have fired Trotz and company. I'm not nearly as patient a man as Poile is and I think Trotz gave Poile plenty of valid reasons to make a move in a different direction. But Poile has built this team, and his decision needs to be respected.

However, Poile, in my opinion, has stuck his neck out for Trotz. If we have another season of one and done, Poile might get the guillotine. He's built an impressive franchise, but has a track record for failing to get his teams over the hump. And he's choosing to stick with someone who hasn't exactly shown he's capable of taking a team anywhere in the playoffs.

Ironically enough, it's a decent risk Poile is taking by playing it safe. It has paid off in the past. My concern is this. Typically, Trotz coached teams don't fair well in March and April. But by then, it's almost too late for a conservative GM (read: not old Lou in NJ) to fire someone. What happens if there is a repeat? How many consecutive years can a team piss away a great chance at making some postseason noise?

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05-04-2007, 03:48 PM
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handtrick
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The Podcast of Poile and Trotz's press conference from today is 15 minutes well spent to get a feel for both their mind sets at this point.

http://www.nashvillepredators.com/mu...PredAlerts.asp

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05-04-2007, 04:05 PM
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handtrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
True enough. But you have to weigh the non-biased view of "hockey people" with their general ignorance of the Predators situation. No offense to most 'hockey analysts' but they can no more name the ten 'actual' best Preds than they can their mom's grammar school crush. The way hockey is currently set up, it's exceedingly difficult to follow all but a handful of teams on any significant level. These guys may have a non-biased view, but I'm not sure they are all as informed as we'd like.

As for my opinion, I probably would have fired Trotz and company. I'm not nearly as patient a man as Poile is and I think Trotz gave Poile plenty of valid reasons to make a move in a different direction. But Poile has built this team, and his decision needs to be respected.

However, Poile, in my opinion, has stuck his neck out for Trotz. If we have another season of one and done, Poile might get the guillotine. He's built an impressive franchise, but has a track record for failing to get his teams over the hump. And he's choosing to stick with someone who hasn't exactly shown he's capable of taking a team anywhere in the playoffs.

Ironically enough, it's a decent risk Poile is taking by playing it safe. It has paid off in the past. My concern is this. Typically, Trotz coached teams don't fair well in March and April. But by then, it's almost too late for a conservative GM (read: not old Lou in NJ) to fire someone. What happens if there is a repeat? How many consecutive years can a team piss away a great chance at making some postseason noise?
I think this is a well thought out post Smokey, and I particularly agree with the part that I bolded. I don't think Leipold necessarily would axe Poile if we were one and done next year, but I think there is an understanding with everybody concerned that it will take a Central Division win and/or a Playoff series win for Trotz to even considered for another contract. The only thing that is the variable still is the budget that Leipold is going to give Poile...we have no inkling as to that as yet.
If Leipold keeps the budget around $40 mill the above is in effect....if he cuts back dramatically, it would be hard to justify these same expectations.

As for what I would have done......I would have felt out Pat Quinn and Pat Burns about their interest in the job.....if there wasn't overwhelming interest [which I truly doubt there was], I would have done exactly what Poile did.....I don't think anybody else out there brings more to the table than Trotz does. Not saying that I would have hired Burns or Quinn, but I would have certainly explored it.

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05-04-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
The Podcast of Poile and Trotz's press conference from today is 15 minutes well spent to get a feel for both their mind sets at this point.

http://www.nashvillepredators.com/mu...PredAlerts.asp
I agree it sounds promising..but..

...it's almost the same thing we heard last year, is it not?

Every move we made over the summer was purportedly an answer to what happened in last year's playoffs against the Sharks...signing Arnott, trading for Vasicek, trading for Vishnevski, signing Dumont, trading for Forsberg.

The only difference was that we looked a little less overmatched in losing in 5 games.

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05-04-2007, 04:10 PM
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handtrick
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post



There simply was not a coach available out on the open market that would have made this decision an easy one to make a change without uprooting a lot of what this organization has accomplished to this point. Of the top names that I've seen people throwing around, Crisp has been away from the bench for a long time and would be a risky pick that would probably turn away some free agents based on the fact that Crispy has been in the media longer than they have been playing. Pat Quinn I don't think would ever be interested in coming to Nashville, nor did he have much success in his most recent position with Toronto and has a very standoffish vibe about himself. Claude Noel has no NHL experience at all and would have been a big risk, especially when you consider that he never played at the NHL level either.

If I were to throw a name into the hat it would have been Tampa Bay assistant coach Craig Ramsey who has had success as a player, an assistant coach, and as a head coach at the NHL level. The Lightning play a style of hockey that I believe is similar to what many around here are clammoring for, except they have a superstar center in Vinny Lecavalier and snipers like Martin St. Louis and Brad Richards. I think our personnel, although lacking a superstar center, could be very similar to them with some added productivity and size on the third and fourth lines and maybe the addition of one physical defensive defenseman back on the blueline. Then again...Tampa Bay did get bumped in the first round too.
SLake....
I did my own little research on some of the names that were being thrown around on the other board last night before today's announcement. It is certainly after the fact now, and doesn't really have any meaning but I thought I would put it over here to add to your mention of "other coaches" above.....
____
Caution: Long Post

[quote name='Legionnaire11' post='247996' date='May 3 2007, 03:50 PM']
With a lot of people downplaying Terry Crisp saying he hasn't coached in ages. Here is a list of coaches who are available and have won a playoff series in the last 10 years...

Ron Low
Tony Granato (currently assistant with Colorado)
Larry Robinson
Pat Burns
Terry Murray (currently assistant with Philadelphia)
Craig Ramsay
Claude Julien
Pat Quinn
[/quote]

I certainly know more about some of these names than others, so I decided to do a little digging about each one of them....here is a little of what I found.......
____
Ron Low
57 yo....won SC as Asst coach with Oilers 1990
Oilers Head Coach 94-99.....lost in rd 2 two years, lost in rd 1 one year, missed playoffs two years
NY Rangers head coach 2000-2002.....missed playoffs both years
No season over .500
Has been Ottawa scout and goalie coach starting in 2004

Assessement: Coaching resume appears to be spotty. Notable has not had any other significant coaching jobs since time with Rangers.
Truly doesn’t appear to be an upgrade over Trotz.

_____

Tony Granato
43 yo....now asst coach with the Avs
Avs Head Coach 2002-4......lost in rd 1 first year, lost in rd 2 second year.

Said to be a "player's coach" by Bates Battaglia

Assessment: Yeah, he won a series in 2003-4, but with the likes of Forsberg, Sakic, Foote, Blake, Selanne, and Kariya.....I would say that is the ultimate in underachievement. Don't see him as an upgrade over Trotz. His resume is spotty at best
________

Larry Robinson
58 yo....played 20 yrs in NHL.....Norris Trophy twice, Conn Smythe Trophy once.....led Habs to 6 Stanley Cups....inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame
LA Head Coach 95-99.....lost in rd 1 once....missed playoffs other 3 years
NJ Devils 99-2000 asst coach....took over as head coach with 8 games left and WON STANLEY CUP
NJ Devils Head coach.....2000-1 lost in SC Finals…fired midway through 01-02 season
NJ Devils 2005-6 replaced Pat Burns [cancer] but quit Dec 2005 citing "stress and health issues"

Known as a defensive minded coach....ran "the Trap" in NJ......said to be an X's and O's coach....known as a "players coach".....said to do better with veterans than rookies.....

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp...orts=ice-hockey

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/12/19/...nson051220.html

Assessment: With his resume, he would be instantly credible with the players. His “defensive minded trap style would be boring to watch, but potentially do well in the playoffs. I don't know if that style would play well in this market.
The big question to me is whether his stress and health issues are resolved......if they are, he would be somebody to consider.

_______

Pat Burns
55 yo....3 times Jack Adams Trophy winner with Habs 89, Leafs 93, and Bruins 99.
11th all time in total victories.....7th in Playoff victories [61].....17th in winning percent .551
Habs Head Coach 88-92.....lost in Finals one year, lost in round 2 other three years
Leafs Head Coach 92-5 ....lost in rd 3 two years, lost in rd 1 one year, fired 95-96 season
Bruins Head Coach 97-2000....lost in rd 1 one year, lost in rd 2 one year, missed playoffs one year, fired 2000-1 season
New Jersey Head Coach 2002-3 WON STANLEY CUP
NJ Head Coach 2003-4 lost in rd 1 and stepped down due to second bout with colon cancer now with mets to liver, underwent 2nd round of chemo.

Mixed reports on whether he might want to get back into coaching:
12/06: " And, yes, Burns unequivocally wants to resume coaching at the right time and place."
http://www.hockeyjournal.com/nhl/Fischler%...211Fischler.htm

1/07: Pat Burns looked wonderfully robust when we saw him on Friday in Tampa Bay. Although media types keep suggesting the idea of Pat returning to coaching, we believe Burns when he says he'd just as soon finish his hockey career working as a special assignments man for Lou Lamoriello.
http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp...orts=ice-hockey

2/07: "I still love coaching, no question about that," Burns said. "I mean, I did it for 20 years (14 seasons in the NHL), more than 1,000 games (1,019) in the NHL, of course you miss it.
"But I don't hold the cards in that situation, someone else does. If someone was interested, it would be up to Lou (Devils GM Lamariello) first."
Indeed, if a team wanted to hire Burns, they would have to get permission from the Devils to talk and gain his release. That likely wouldn't be a problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/morrison/070207.html

Assessment: Burns would be a great coach to get, but since he didn't come back to coach the Devils when Lou fired Julien, it seems that he probably doesn't want to get back into the fray.....also with Lou not having hired next year's Devil's coach, I can't see him giving Poile approval to hire him as a Preds coach. If he is interested and healthy.....I say go for it, but I think the chances of that happening are truly remote.
________

Terry Murray
57 yo.....brother of Bryan Murray Ottawa's head coach....currently asst coach with Philadelphia [03-04 and 06-07]
19th all time in total victories....21st in winning percentage .545
Wash Caps Head Coach 89-94.....lost in rd 3 one year, lost in rd 2 one year, lost in rd 1 two years, fired during 93-94 season
Phily Flyers head coach 94-97.....lost in rd 3 one year, lost in rd 2 one year, lost in SC Finals one year….then fired, why?
Florida Panthers head coach 98-2000.....missed playoffs one year, lost in first round other year.

Assessment: Poile knows him well as he coached the Caps for him from 89-94, when Poile fired him and brought in Jim Schoenfield. There is probably reasons that he hasn't been a head coach since 2000 that I am not aware of. Poile certainly knows him better than I could ever find out.....if he wants to hire him back, fine....if not, I won't lobby for him.
________
Craig Ramsay
56yo....won Selke Trophy once.....current Associate coach with TB….won SC as asst coach while in Tampa in 2004
Buffalo Head coach 86-87.....didn't make playoffs
Phily Head Coach 2000-1....lost in rd 1

Assists Torterella in all aspects of the game with emphasis in special teams and defense....known to be "easy going"...."one of hockey's all-time 'good guys'"....plays "good cop" for Torterella
Clarke fired Ramsay for "lack of team toughness" and "lack of intensity in players" in 2001

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/...say001210.html

Ramsay: Odessey on Ice
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/29/Lightnin...sey_on_ic.shtml

Assessment: When I hear "lack of team toughness" and "unable to light a fire in his players bellies," I worry about bringing him in, frankly. His coaching resume is marginal, at best, as a head coach, and I see no upgrade over Trotz here.
_______

Claude Julien
47 yo....only 3 ½ years as a head coach in junior and minors before becoming a head coach in Montreal.....indistinguished player's career

Habs Head Coach 2003-2006....lost in rd 2 one year...missed playoffs other 2 years....fired halfway through 05-06 season
NJ Devils Head Coach 2006-7....fired with 3 games to go in regular season and replaced by GM Lou Lamirrillo.

Initially Lou's explanation was: ""I do not think we're at a point of being ready both mentally, and with the play necessary, to go into the playoffs."
While Lou would not get into specifics, some players were willing to talk on the condition of anonymity. Although he was a sweetheart as a person, Julien lacked firmness -- call it leadership qualities -- that would inspire respect among the players.
One player talked of "chaos" on the bench.
Another report indicated that a player openly criticized one of Julien's decisions in a mockingly sarcastic way after a practice.
Another theory floated is that the unusual spate of groin injuries may have caused by practices that lacked enough intensity, making the players more susceptible during vigorous game conditions.
First place or not, there was no paradise in the dressing room.


http://blogs.msg.com/the_maven/2007/..._mystery_.html

Assessment: Julien does not look like the coach to "take us to the next level"....if he is being fired 3 games before the Playoffs for allegedly "not having the respect of the dressing room"....he has no business replacing Trotz, as far as I am concerned, because his coaching record does not speak otherwise.
_______

Pat Quinn
64 yo.....Jack Adams Trophy winner 79…currently a consultant for Dallas Stars

Led Canada to Olympic Gold in 2002 and World Cup Gold in 2004, and to the Spengler Cup Final in 2006.

5th all time total victories....4th all time playoff victories [85]....18th winning percentage .551.....has 11 first round Playoff wins in 16 NHL head coaching seasons.

Philly Head Coach 78-82....lost in rd 2 two years, lost in SC Finals one year, fired during 82 season
LA Kings Head Coach 84-6....missed playoffs one year….fired second year ½ way through season
Vancouver Head Coach 90-94, then GM....lost in rd 1 one year, lost in rd 2 one year, lost in SC Finals one year
Toronto Head Coach 98-2006....lost in rd 3 two years, lost in rd 2 three years, lost in rd 1 one year, missed playoffs last year before fired.

Known to be offensively minded, with teams oriented on speed, puck possession and puck movement....not known for being defensive minded. Definitely favors veteran players at the expense of young player development at times. Rumored to like the whiskey and cigars. Known to be "bombastic."

" Quinn can come across as a pretty mean person at times - a trait from his old playing days. But ask anyone who's ever played for him and they'll tell you that he's the kind of coach who you will go through a brick wall for. Quinn, who is bigger than almost every player he's ever coached, commands and demands respect and hard work. In return he's extremely loyal, probably to a fault.
Such respect around the hockey world and his tremendous experience were two of the reasons why the gum chomping Quinn was selected by Wayne Gretzky to coach the 2002 version of Team Canada at the Salt Lake Olympic Games. Not yet able to hoist the Stanley Cup over his head, returning the Olympic gold medal to Canada for the first time in 50 years stand as his greatest coaching accomplishment."


http://mapleleafslegends.blogspot.co...pat-quinn.html

It appears he is interested in getting back in the coaching fray:
" "Hockey's still something that I love and that I'm interested in," Quinn said from Davos, Switzerland. "I'll pay close attention and if something comes along that provides an opportunity to be in the game in the future than I'll certainly have a good look at it.
" Several players noted the calming influence he had on the team, particularly early in the tournament when it got behind in a couple games before coming back to win them. "When he walks in the room, you just feel his presence (and feel) that it's business time," said captain Stacy Roest, a former NHLer with Detroit and Minnesota. "I was very honoured to play for Pat Quinn."

http://asnews.eu/id/4757/

Assessment: Pat Quinn is probably the most intriguing option out there. He is known as one of the greatest hockey minds in the business. He still hungers for the missing piece in his resume....a Stanley Cup. Would Poile and Leipold feel too intimidated to hire him? Is he right for Nashville? I would say, if we could get Pat Quinn....go for it.

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05-04-2007, 04:25 PM
  #18
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I agree it sounds promising..but..

...it's almost the same thing we heard last year, is it not?

Every move we made over the summer was purportedly an answer to what happened in last year's playoffs against the Sharks...signing Arnott, trading for Vasicek, trading for Vishnevski, signing Dumont, trading for Forsberg.

The only difference was that we looked a little less overmatched in losing in 5 games.
Yea, but maybe these weren't the right guys to do what we needed to be done.

Vasicek...a bust by all definitions

Arnott....our "answer to Thornton".....well he did play Thornton ok, but the rest of the forward size and speed combo dominated us....and certainly one can argue that Arnott doesn't play as "big" as he could or should.

V2....another bust.....I did find it strange, though that Poile apologized to him in front of the team....this reaks of a rift between the management and coaches on the use [or non-use] of Vishnevsky.

Dumont.....a definite positive signing. He showed up all year and in the Playoffs.....the best new face in the lineup as far as I am concerned.

Forsberg......he added some intangibles that may benefit us down the road, but not a big success story on the ice.....on retrospect not worth the package that we gave up [although hindsight is always 20-20].

So all these moves are more on Poile's shoulders than Trotz's.
I think Trotz gets more than his share of the blame around here, and Poile probably gets less blame than he deserves for our failures.

One thing I do find disturbing is Poile seeming to imply in recent interiviews that the direction that we go is determined a lot by who we can get to sign back here of Kariya, Timonen, and Hartnell.
It seems that a better approach might be.....determine what direction we are gonna go [i.e. Sharks model- get bigger and keep speed.....Detroit model - become more puck possession oriented.....or model C] .....THEN determine whether and who of Kariya, Timonen, and Hartnell fit back in that picture.
Am I wrong here?

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05-04-2007, 05:13 PM
  #19
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Quote:
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Craig Ramsay
56yo....won Selke Trophy once.....current Associate coach with TB….won SC as asst coach while in Tampa in 2004
Buffalo Head coach 86-87.....didn't make playoffs
Phily Head Coach 2000-1....lost in rd 1

Assists Torterella in all aspects of the game with emphasis in special teams and defense....known to be "easy going"...."one of hockey's all-time 'good guys'"....plays "good cop" for Torterella
Clarke fired Ramsay for "lack of team toughness" and "lack of intensity in players" in 2001

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/...say001210.html

Ramsay: Odessey on Ice
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/29/Lightnin...sey_on_ic.shtml

Assessment: When I hear "lack of team toughness" and "unable to light a fire in his players bellies," I worry about bringing him in, frankly. His coaching resume is marginal, at best, as a head coach, and I see no upgrade over Trotz here.
Great research Handtrick regardless of whether or not it comes after the decision has been made it was interesting to read.

As for Ramsay getting those reactions from Clarke...I don't really buy it. Certainly I remember the Flyers having serious issues during that period, but I have to point to the contract dispute that had Lindros sitting out, the injuries that had LeClair and Recchi on the sidelines, and the retirement of Keith Jones being the main reasons for the lack of team "toughness" and yet despite those injuries, Ramsay had the team playing .500 hockey at the time of his firing.

Bobby Clarke has never been the greatest GM IMO and I cannot shake my thoughts that he made Ramsay the scapegoat to divert the media attention away from himself and also to promote his buddy Bill Barber at the same time. If the comments were echoed from the players or people outside of the Flyers organization I would give them more credence, but Clarke ran that organization as a good ol' boys club for many years and Ramsay, as was pointed out in the article, played against the Flyers, not for them.

All pointless now, but I believe Ramsay is a very attractive coaching candidate. He has served many years in a coaching role, while also serving as an assistant GM for a stretch, and serving as a scout along the way too.

I clearly agree with your opinions on Quinn and Burns that they would not be interested in coming to Nashville and overall I believe we made the best decision.

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05-04-2007, 09:32 PM
  #20
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FYI, Pat Quinn attended the University of Tennessee and played/coached the ice hockey team if I recall correctly.

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05-04-2007, 10:05 PM
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I'm very happy Trotz is back.

I think he has what it takes to bring us to the promised land.

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05-04-2007, 10:30 PM
  #22
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I'm very happy Trotz is back.

I think he has what it takes to bring us to the promised land.
What's that, the second round?

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05-05-2007, 04:03 AM
  #23
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handtrick, Terry Murray was fired after the Flyers '97 SCF Loss because simply he was awful. Philly had a much better team, featuring the famed "Legion of Doom" line, a roster full of big physical players and Ron Hextall in net. They were the 4th best team in the NHL that season with 103 points, behind only Colorado (107), Dallas (104), and New Jersey (104). Philadelphia was also the 3rd best scoring team at 274 goals behind just the superstar-studded Avalanche (277) and the Mario Lemieux/Jaromir Jagr Penguins (285). They were completely dismantled by a smaller Wings team, who managed only 94 points and 253 goals, in an almost embarrasing fashion in the Finals. Murray flip-flopped Hextall and Snow in net twice that series (in 4 games only) and his team looked confused on the ice. By the middle of Game 3, the Flyer had completely mailed it in by all accounts. To make matters worse, his coaching foe that series, Scotty Bowman, was the complete opposite of Murray which only made Terry look even worse with every move. Just look at the roster. They were bigger and faster top-to-bottom than this years Sharks team:

Forwards: Eric Lindros (24), John Leclair (27), Rod Brind'Amour (26), Dainius Zubrus (18), Vaclav Prospal (22), Mikael Renberg (24), Dale Hawerchuk (33), Shjon Podein (29), Trent Klatt (26), Joel Otto (35), Pat Falloon (24), Dan Kordic (25), John Druce (31), Daniel Lacroix (27)
Defense: Eric Desjardins (27), Karl Dykhuis (24), Chris Therien (25), Janne Niinimaa (21), Paul Coffey (35), Petr Svoboda (31)
Goalies: Ron Hextall (32), Garth Snow (27)

All those great players in their primes, or still young and starting out. When you compare them to the Red Wings team:

Forwards: Steve Yzerman (31), Sergei Fedorov (27), Brendan Shanahan (28), Vyacheslav Kozlov (24), Kirk Maltby (24), Kris Draper (25), Tomas Sandstrom (32), Martin Lapointe (23), Darren McCarty (24), Igor Larionov (36), Doug Brown (32), Joey Kocur (32)
Defense: Nicklas Lidstrom (26), Vladimir Konstantinov (29), Larry Murphy (36), Bob Rouse (32), Viacheslav Fetisov (38), Aaron Ward (24)
Goalies: Mike Vernon (34), Chris Osgood (24)

A roster full of young kids up front and slow fossil in back. Detroit was not supposed to have a chance with old, slow, smaller defensemen against the hulking Flyers.

Frankly, Terry Murray was outcoached by a ridiculous margin by Scotty Bowman and lost in a sweep with the far superior team. That's why he got fired.

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05-05-2007, 07:53 AM
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Thanks Fissionfire, very informative post.

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05-05-2007, 08:33 AM
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I will just say this...

"Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

I hope we make *some* changes, and it does bother me that Trotzy says he wouldn't have done anything differently. And that Poile is trying to bring the same old gang back... and think all we have to do is stay healthy and everything will be honky dory

I still think we overestimated the 'new' NHL and we need to adapt accordingly. Unless we just want a team that can kick the crap out of the bottom feeders and have nice records until we meet stiff competition LOL

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