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Trotz and Company Extended for Next Year

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Old
05-05-2007, 10:03 PM
  #26
John Flyers Fan
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
handtrick, Terry Murray was fired after the Flyers '97 SCF Loss because simply he was awful. Philly had a much better team, featuring the famed "Legion of Doom" line, a roster full of big physical players and Ron Hextall in net. They were the 4th best team in the NHL that season with 103 points, behind only Colorado (107), Dallas (104), and New Jersey (104). Philadelphia was also the 3rd best scoring team at 274 goals behind just the superstar-studded Avalanche (277) and the Mario Lemieux/Jaromir Jagr Penguins (285). They were completely dismantled by a smaller Wings team, who managed only 94 points and 253 goals, in an almost embarrasing fashion in the Finals. Murray flip-flopped Hextall and Snow in net twice that series (in 4 games only) and his team looked confused on the ice. By the middle of Game 3, the Flyer had completely mailed it in by all accounts. To make matters worse, his coaching foe that series, Scotty Bowman, was the complete opposite of Murray which only made Terry look even worse with every move. Just look at the roster. They were bigger and faster top-to-bottom than this years Sharks team:

Forwards: Eric Lindros (24), John Leclair (27), Rod Brind'Amour (26), Dainius Zubrus (18), Vaclav Prospal (22), Mikael Renberg (24), Dale Hawerchuk (33), Shjon Podein (29), Trent Klatt (26), Joel Otto (35), Pat Falloon (24), Dan Kordic (25), John Druce (31), Daniel Lacroix (27)
Defense: Eric Desjardins (27), Karl Dykhuis (24), Chris Therien (25), Janne Niinimaa (21), Paul Coffey (35), Petr Svoboda (31)
Goalies: Ron Hextall (32), Garth Snow (27)

All those great players in their primes, or still young and starting out. When you compare them to the Red Wings team:

Forwards: Steve Yzerman (31), Sergei Fedorov (27), Brendan Shanahan (28), Vyacheslav Kozlov (24), Kirk Maltby (24), Kris Draper (25), Tomas Sandstrom (32), Martin Lapointe (23), Darren McCarty (24), Igor Larionov (36), Doug Brown (32), Joey Kocur (32)
Defense: Nicklas Lidstrom (26), Vladimir Konstantinov (29), Larry Murphy (36), Bob Rouse (32), Viacheslav Fetisov (38), Aaron Ward (24)
Goalies: Mike Vernon (34), Chris Osgood (24)

A roster full of young kids up front and slow fossil in back. Detroit was not supposed to have a chance with old, slow, smaller defensemen against the hulking Flyers.

Frankly, Terry Murray was outcoached by a ridiculous margin by Scotty Bowman and lost in a sweep with the far superior team. That's why he got fired.

A few things:

#1. The Flyers goaltending blew chunks the entire series, and was the biggest reason the Flyers lost, and lost in a hurry.

#2. The Flyers were essentially a 4 man team. It was 4 great players (Lindros, leClair, Brind'amour and Desjardins) amd very little depth. Prospal was injured and did not play .... Renberg, Hawerchuk, Coffey and Svoboda were severely hobbled. The Wings were the far superior and deeper team.

#3. It shouldn't have been a sweep, but the better team certainly won.

#4. The biggest reason Murray was let go was a comment he made after game three, when he essentially said that the team was choking.

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Old
05-05-2007, 10:10 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
________
Craig Ramsay
56yo....won Selke Trophy once.....current Associate coach with TB….won SC as asst coach while in Tampa in 2004
Buffalo Head coach 86-87.....didn't make playoffs
Phily Head Coach 2000-1....lost in rd 1

Assists Torterella in all aspects of the game with emphasis in special teams and defense....known to be "easy going"...."one of hockey's all-time 'good guys'"....plays "good cop" for Torterella
Clarke fired Ramsay for "lack of team toughness" and "lack of intensity in players" in 2001

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/...say001210.html

Ramsay: Odessey on Ice
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/29/Lightnin...sey_on_ic.shtml

Assessment: When I hear "lack of team toughness" and "unable to light a fire in his players bellies," I worry about bringing him in, frankly. His coaching resume is marginal, at best, as a head coach, and I see no upgrade over Trotz here.
Some innaccuracies above:

Ramsay has never been a head coach for a full season.

In Buffalo he took over for Scotty Bowman, who was coach/GM. Bowman stepped down after 12 games. They were better under Ramsay, but not enough to qualify for the playoffs.

With the Flyers Ramsay took over lat in the 1999-00 season from Roger Neilson, who had to step away to battle cancer. He took a team without Eric Lindros and had them up 3-1 in the East Conf. Finals over the NJ Devils. The Devils (far superior) came back to win 2-1 in game 7.

The Flyers decided not to renew Neilson's contract and hired Ramsay to be the full time head coach starting the 2000-01 season. He was let go after about 20 games. He was an absolute disaster, and it was the worst team defense I've ever seen a Flyers team play (prior to this year). Bill Barber took over and got the team to regroup and make the playoffs.

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Old
05-06-2007, 03:38 PM
  #28
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I think Trotz is overall a good coach. He can't be considered a great coach until he starts winning in the playoffs. However, IMO, we have been the the underdog is all three of our playoff series.

2004. We barely sqeaked in the 8th seed, and we did it with little talent (Walker and Johansson were on our first line). Almost every prediction out there had us getting swept. We put up a pretty good fight.

2006. SJ was the best team in the 2nd half of the season after they got Thornton. Vokoun goes out right before the playoffs. We were certainly the underdogs. I was hoping for a better fight, but objectively speaking, I expected us to lose.

2007. SJ gets hot at the end of the year. We don't have many injuries all season, then we get swamped at the end of the year. Meanwhile, SJ is pretty much 100%. Vokoun aint on top of his game. I again hoped for a better fight, but again, I expected us to lose. I think it's stupid to blame Trotz for no-shows like Arnott and Kariya. These are the guys' who supposedly know how to win the the playoffs, and in turn, show others. It's their fault alot more than Trotz.

-------------

I more unhappy with Poile. He pisses away assets at the trade deadline, when we could used our assets at a much better time. We give up a 1st for Witt, when we could've gotten Lydman for a 3rd in the offseason (among others). It didn't take a genius to know we need some defense before the season started.

The name of Forseberg was good, but it didn't fill our biggest hole (a solid defenseman). Meanwhile, we could've used a package similar to Parent, Upshall, 1st for the likes of Progner or Thornton.


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05-06-2007, 06:34 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
The name of Forseberg was good, but it didn't fill our biggest hole (a solid defenseman). Meanwhile, we could've used a package similar to Parent, Upshall, 1st for the likes of Progner or Thornton.
I'm content with the Forsberg trade but still quite bitter about our failure to address our needs on the defensive end. It was our biggest need when we acquired Forsberg, and it showed quite often as the season wound down. VV was an ok move if Trotz had ever gained faith in him. But at no point was he going to take pressure of someone like Timonen, who's proven to be woefully overburdened in the playoffs. If you are going to go all out to acquire a Forsberg, no sense in not taking one more extra step to fill the team's biggest need.

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Old
05-06-2007, 07:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
I'm content with the Forsberg trade but still quite bitter about our failure to address our needs on the defensive end. It was our biggest need when we acquired Forsberg, and it showed quite often as the season wound down. VV was an ok move if Trotz had ever gained faith in him. But at no point was he going to take pressure of someone like Timonen, who's proven to be woefully overburdened in the playoffs. If you are going to go all out to acquire a Forsberg, no sense in not taking one more extra step to fill the team's biggest need.
I said the same thing last summer after we acquired Arnott and Dumont. I felt like we had some solid youth on the back end, and clearly we did. Weber had a great year, Suter took some huge steps forward...but I felt that we were still lacking the combination of size and experience that would push the team over the edge. I was flamed for it by some of our own posters.

At any rate, I hope that this doesn't go unaddressed for two years in a row., but from the sounds of it...it may. Every article seems to imply that Klein is penciled in, Brookbank has an outside shot...and the only way either of these guys even has a spot is if Timonen leaves...so...could management let Timonen go AND not replace him externally?

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05-06-2007, 10:23 PM
  #31
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My prediciton...Preds reach 3rd round of playoffs! In '09.

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Old
05-07-2007, 08:10 AM
  #32
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I said the same thing last summer after we acquired Arnott and Dumont. I felt like we had some solid youth on the back end, and clearly we did. Weber had a great year, Suter took some huge steps forward...but I felt that we were still lacking the combination of size and experience that would push the team over the edge. I was flamed for it by some of our own posters.

At any rate, I hope that this doesn't go unaddressed for two years in a row., but from the sounds of it...it may. Every article seems to imply that Klein is penciled in, Brookbank has an outside shot...and the only way either of these guys even has a spot is if Timonen leaves...so...could management let Timonen go AND not replace him externally?
Couldn't either of those two be replacing Greg Zanon? I thought he was a UFA this offseason.

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05-07-2007, 11:08 AM
  #33
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Couldn't either of those two be replacing Greg Zanon? I thought he was a UFA this offseason.
It would be a gigantic mistake to not bring back Zanon in a 5/6 role IMO.

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05-07-2007, 02:02 PM
  #34
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Couldn't either of those two be replacing Greg Zanon? I thought he was a UFA this offseason.
For the money Zanon makes, and the attention he received this year(particularly in the playoffs,) I'd be shocked if he's not brought back.

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05-07-2007, 07:03 PM
  #35
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Klein...

I still say Klein gets dealt. He's good. If the Preds really don't think they need an upgrade at D, Timonen stays, then they can get a good piece for Kevin...Brookbank I like a lot. But, he's floated around the AHL for at least 3 - 4 solid seasons. He's 6' 2" 200 pounds. I'm 6 even and 213, and I am not exactly as stocky as I could be...He needs to add some pounds. If he does that, then I hope he can crack a club, somewhere. Heart and soul guy who can score, and hold his own in the fist - i - cuffs dept.

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