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All-Time Draft #7, Part IV

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:10 PM
  #26
MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Quick follow up to that clip from above. Just found this clip ... it's about 4 minutes later and a full bench clearing brawl. I believe it's Kelly on play-by-play with Howie Meeker doing the color.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPdnX...elated&search=

Here's the boxscore from that particular game;

22-Feb-80


Philadelphia Flyers 7 @ Vancouver Canucks 3


First Period
1 - VAN : Manery 5 (EV) 1:30
2 - VAN : Brasar 7 (Smyl, Gradin) (PP) 2:55
3 - PHI : Paul Holmgren 19 (Ken Linseman) (EV) 7:05
4 - PHI : Al Hill 13 (Bobby Clarke) (EV) 16:09
5 - VAN : Fraser 14 (Gradin, Smyl) (EV) 17:46

Penalties - PHI - Paul Holmgren (Hooking) 2:06 ; PHI - Bobby Clarke (Hooking) 4:27 ; PHI - Bobby Clarke (Slashing) 10:20 ; PHI - Paul Holmgren (Fighting (maj)) 19:43 ; VAN - Williams (Fighting (maj)) 19:43 ;


Second Period
6 - PHI : Reggie Leach 39 (Andre Dupont) (EV) 4:09
7 - PHI : Bobby Clarke 9 (Reggie Leach) (EV) 9:01
8 - PHI : Reggie Leach 40 (Bob Dailey, Bill Barber) (PP) 12:26

Penalties - PHI - Frank Bathe (Fighting (maj)) 6:24 ; PHI - Frank Bathe (Holding) 6:24 ; VAN - Butler (Fighting (maj)) 6:24 ; PHI - Mel Bridgman (Fighting (maj)) 8:03 ; VAN - Williams (Fighting (maj)) 8:03 ; PHI - Jimmy Watson (Hooking) 8:51 ; VAN - Hughes (Tripping) 12:18 ;


Third Period
9 - PHI : Mel Bridgman 11 (Paul Holmgren) (EV) 5:35
10 - PHI : Bob Dailey 12 (Rick MacLeish, Bob Kelly) (EV) 5:59

Penalties - PHI - Brian Propp (Hooking) 0:15 ; VAN - Butler (Interference) 7:53 ; PHI - Mel Bridgman (Roughing) 10:43 ; PHI - Mel Bridgman (Roughing) 10:43 ; PHI - Mike Busniuk (Fighting (maj)) 10:43 ; PHI - Phil Myre (Goalie leave crease) 10:43 ; VAN - Gradin (Roughing) 10:43 ; VAN - Hughes (Fighting (maj)) 10:43 ; VAN - Lindgren (Game misconduct) 10:43 ; PHI - Phil Myre (Tripping) 11:09 ; PHI - Bob Dailey ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Bob Dailey (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Bob Dailey 14:30 ; PHI - Frank Bathe (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Frank Bathe 14:30 ; PHI - Frank Bathe 14:30 ; PHI - Jimmy Watson (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Jimmy Watson 14:30 ; PHI - Mel Bridgman ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Mel Bridgman (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Mel Bridgman 14:30 ; PHI - Mike Busniuk ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Mike Busniuk (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Mike Busniuk (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Mike Busniuk 14:30 ; PHI - Paul Holmgren ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Paul Holmgren (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Pete Peeters ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Pete Peeters (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI - Phil Myre ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Phil Myre (Misconduct (10 min)) 14:30 ; PHI - Phil Myre 14:30 ; VAN - Bromley 14:30 ; VAN - Gillis ( (maj)) 14:30 ; VAN - Gillis (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; VAN - Hanlon ( (maj)) 14:30 ; VAN - Hanlon (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; VAN - Logan ( (maj)) 14:30 ; VAN - Logan ( (maj)) 14:30 ; VAN - Logan (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; VAN - Logan (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; VAN - Logan 14:30 ; VAN - McCarthy (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; VAN - Smyl ( (maj)) 14:30 ; VAN - Smyl (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; VAN - Snepsts ( (maj)) 14:30 ; VAN - Snepsts (Game misconduct) 14:30 ;


Shots On Goal
1 2 3 T
Philadelphia Flyers 9 12 7 28
Vancouver Canucks 9 11 14 34

My guess is Big Behn wasn't in the lineup...

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
My guess is Big Behn wasn't in the lineup...
Correct. Behn wasn't in the line-up that night. A Wilson - Tiger Williams scrap would have been nice.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:28 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by VanIslander
But a big part of why we are doing these all-time drafts in the first place is to LEARN more, research and profile great players in the history of the game. I know I have learned a lot from the selections of others and from my own research.
I agree with this in large part but there is a limit as to how much one can learn due to well a lack of material available, and that is one of the biggest problems with the Eastern European stars of the past. The information that we do know is either of questionable reputation (considering it was the "crime-free" Soviet Union that was giving the reports). I am surprised at how you have been able to put a defense together, that being said it still is in the bottom 5 in the draft as a whole and well that is being kind. Dallas Smith on the top pairing should be well interesting at the very least.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
Dallas Smith on the top pairing should be well interesting at the very least.
he's a great defensive defenseman paired with Conn Smythe Leetch... Burrows as another great defensive defenseman paired with Conn Smythe Savard... Bowman is happy to coach them

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
he's a great defensive defenseman paired with Conn Smythe Leetch... Burrows as another great defensive defenseman paired with Conn Smythe Savard... Bowman is happy to coach them
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Smith was a great defensive defenseman... good yes, but great not by a long shot. There are few great defensive defenseman, and I have found that people vastly overrate the good ones as a result. Smith never had elite shutdown abilities from what I can gather and you can attribute his +/- records to being on the ice when Bobby Orr was there, something I am very glad to say that you won't be able to take advantage of this draft

Edit - The Conn Smythe is nice but I would worry about making it to the playoffs for that to be of any importance.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:44 PM
  #31
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Oh... BTW, here are the "vitals" for Vic Stasiuk. He wasn't drafted yet, unless he was in MinorLeague vol. 6

Name: STASIUK, Vic
Position: Left Wing
Height: 6'0"
Weight: 185
Birthday: May 23, 1929
Born: Lethbridge, Alberta
Jersey Number: (#7)

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:45 PM
  #32
VanIslander
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Originally Posted by Frightened Inmate #2 View Post
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Smith was a great defensive defenseman... good yes, but great not by a long shot.
What do you know?

"He gained a reputation as an excellent defensive defenseman -- as well as a wide repute as the league's strongest man"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Smith

He was one of six invited to the Summit Series and though he declined it was said the team missed his strength.

All I'm saying is his style works well with Leetch's.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:46 PM
  #33
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Sorry guys, I felled asleep. Big weekend ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I also have Alder Mannheim's pick: C Johnny Gottselig.
Gottselig was an LW. He was the players I wanted to picked. I'll need to look at that, sorry for slowing the draft.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:49 PM
  #34
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14:30 ; PHI - Pete Peeters ( (maj)) 14:30 ; PHI - Pete Peeters (Game misconduct) 14:30 ; PHI

The worst is... Peeters was the BACKUP for this game.

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Old
05-06-2007, 09:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
What do you know?

"He gained a reputation as an excellent defensive defenseman -- as well as a wide repute as the league's strongest man"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Smith

He was one of six invited to the Summit Series and though he declined it was said the team missed his strength.

All I'm saying is his style works well with Leetch's.
I have a big soft spot for Smith (I had him in the last minor league draft and he played his junior down here in Estevan, Sask.) But as a No. 3 defenceman? I think you're asking a bit much. I think he's good enough to be a regular in this draft, but as a No. 6 defenceman who can get you 15 minutes a night. If you're asking for more than 18 a night from him (which you are as your No. 3 playing on the top pairing), you're going to be in trouble.

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05-06-2007, 10:03 PM
  #36
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So, a player good enough to take on the best players of his era and excel defensively (especially with all those Orr rushes, must have been countless odd rushes coming back when there was a turnover on an Orr's shot or pass) is not good enough against the best players of other eras? Two stanley cups as a heavy minutes defensive defensman and penalty killer. And he can't compare to Adam Foote? Charlie Huddy? Mattias Ohlund? Red Dutton? Kevin Lowe?

When it comes to defensive defensemen there is Tim Horton, Rod Langway and Scott Stevens, and very few others... followed by several great defensive d-men, only some of whom were drafted early in this HFBoards draft. As I've said all along, def. d-men are underrated around here, and some def d-man are somehow much vaulted over others who were just as great defensively.

BTW, it'll be the big duo of Serge Savard-Dave Burrows along with the Kurri line which goes skate-to-skate against the opponent's top line.


Last edited by VanIslander: 05-06-2007 at 10:10 PM.
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Old
05-06-2007, 10:21 PM
  #37
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Sorry for the delay

LW - Marcel Bonin

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:31 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I have a big soft spot for Smith (I had him in the last minor league draft and he played his junior down here in Estevan, Sask.) But as a No. 3 defenceman? I think you're asking a bit much. I think he's good enough to be a regular in this draft, but as a No. 6 defenceman who can get you 15 minutes a night. If you're asking for more than 18 a night from him (which you are as your No. 3 playing on the top pairing), you're going to be in trouble.
It's interesting how this draft with defensive d-men seems to be unbelievably slanted towards certain eras. Why is Adam Foote so much more highly regarded? Because we've seen what he can do in person perhaps. Van and I made a concious decision to lean heavily on later round selections of defensive d-men because they were criminally underrated thus far in this draft. I guess we have to work hard to make the argument, but I think these guys combined with our terrific two-way forwards (who were almost all picked due to their ability in both zones) should be more than ready to do the job we need.

They are all conciously big, strong and responsible guys who will work great in Bowman's system.

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05-06-2007, 10:32 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Sorry for the delay

LW - Marcel Bonin
Had him in the minor league draft... a good pick and underrated forward.

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:33 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
So, a player good enough to take on the best players of his era and excel defensively (especially with all those Orr rushes, must have been countless odd rushes coming back when there was a turnover on an Orr's shot or pass) is not good enough against the best players of other eras? Two stanley cups as a heavy minutes defensive defensman and penalty killer. And he can't compare to Adam Foote? Charlie Huddy? Mattias Ohlund? Red Dutton? Kevin Lowe?

When it comes to defensive defensemen there is Tim Horton, Rod Langway and Scott Stevens, and very few others... followed by several great defensive d-men, only some of whom were drafted early in this HFBoards draft. As I've said all along, def. d-men are underrated around here, and some def d-man are somehow much vaulted over others who were just as great defensively.

BTW, it'll be the big duo of Serge Savard-Dave Burrows along with the Kurri line which goes skate-to-skate against the opponent's top line.
I don't think Smith faced a lot of odd-man rushes with Bobby Orr as his partner. Not with Orr's speed and ability to get back in the play. I'm guessing Smith will face more odd-man rushes in one year with Leetch than he did in three years with Orr. And Leetch isn't that bad defensively, either.

And there's a lot more than just Horton, Langway, Stevens and a few others when it comes to defensive defencemen. Butch Bouchard? Not to mention guys like Bourque, Kelly, Chelios and Lidstrom and Harvey who were outstanding defensively in addition to their offensive skills. There are a lot of defencemen who were better defensively than Smith.

There were still a lot of good/very good defensive defencemen available when you nabbed Smith. Smith was one of them. There just wasn't much separation between those defensive defencemen. That's why Smith's a good pick for the first pick of Round No. 20. I just have concerns how he'll do getting No. 3 minutes.

I think Foote went about 50-100 picks too early as well. I wouldn't take him ahead of a Rob Blake or a Marcel Pronovost, or even a JC Tremblay or a Carl Brewer. I don't think Foote's a No. 2 or 3 defenceman. Based on what I've been able to tell by reading and talking to those who watched Smith play when he was down here, I'd say Foote was quicker and more physical than Smith. Foote was also bigger, too.

Smith might have been strong, but remember, Dave Babych was one of the strongest players of his day, too.

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05-06-2007, 10:34 PM
  #41
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Had him in the minor league draft... a good pick and underrated forward.
I second : however he DOES have some longevity issues.

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:36 PM
  #42
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Montreal will snag the (I think) last remaining hall of fame right winger on the board Blair Russel. He will likely play alongside Kirk Muller and Herbie Lewis, but he'll be on a short leash if he can't cut it in the pro game.

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05-06-2007, 10:37 PM
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Great pick on Gottselig. Really clutch player.

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Old
05-06-2007, 10:38 PM
  #44
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Montreal will snag the (I think) last remaining hall of fame right winger on the board Blair Russel. He will likely play alongside Kirk Muller and Herbie Lewis, but he'll be on a short leash if he can't cut it in the pro game.
How do we call this line.... Great-Great Grand Dad playing with Grand Dad playing with Sonny?!?!?!

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05-06-2007, 10:48 PM
  #45
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Just wanted to thank GBC for making my picks this weekend.

Harris gives us a doubly tough defender, one of the best fighters of the 60's and a player who can play a regular shift on defense. At worst, he can sub in for Hajt as our sixth d-man if we're up against a more physical team. In addition, he's capable enough to allow us to move Cyclone Taylor up front if we need more scoring on our top lines.

Goyette is an excellent defensive player and PK'er. He won four Cups with the Canadiens as a key shut down player. Stuck behind Beliveau, Richard and Backstrom, he wasn't able to display his offensive talent. After leaving the Canadiens, he blossomed as an excellent offensive player, finishing as a top-10 scorer three times. He brings strong two-way play that should complement Rousseau and Thompson on our third line.
A good pair of picks.

I really like the Thompson - Goyette - Rousseau line you've been able to put together, awesome 3rd line (could even be a very good 2nd this draft IMO) and great at both ends of the ice.

I thought about taking Harris (had him in both of my minor league drafts) but he was a penalty machine in the playoffs.

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05-06-2007, 10:51 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Sorry for the delay

LW - Marcel Bonin
Great pick. One of the HHOF write-ups states: "As part of summer spectator sports, Marcel Bonin was also known to wrestle bears". Say what you will about Bonin's size... this quote, if true, proves that Bonin was stronger, tougher and crazier than 99% of all NHLers, past and present.

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05-06-2007, 10:56 PM
  #47
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A good pair of picks.

I really like the Thompson - Goyette - Rousseau line you've been able to put together, awesome 3rd line (could even be a very good 2nd this draft IMO) and great at both ends of the ice.

I thought about taking Harris (had him in both of my minor league drafts) but he was a penalty machine in the playoffs.
As someone who has forged a very respect-filled rivalry with pit (which is more than I can say about my heated, chirping rivalry with Murphy2), I think I can count the number of bad picks he's had on one hand. He rarely makes a mistake, and he's not a guy you want to pick behind, because he'll likely sneak away the guy you want.

I had to go through pit to win the division in the last draft. I think I'm going to have to do the same in this draft.

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05-06-2007, 10:57 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
Great pick. One of the HHOF write-ups states: "As part of summer spectator sports, Marcel Bonin was also known to wrestle bears". Say what you will about Bonin's size... this quote, if true, proves that Bonin was stronger, tougher and crazier than 99% of all NHLers, past and present.
There was a really good quote about that in Ultimate Hockey, let me see if I can dig it up.

Alright, in faux French speak: "I ressle duh bear buh duh bear ee beat me."

And thanks for the compliments guys.

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Old
05-06-2007, 11:11 PM
  #49
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Homer pick - C Orland Kurtenbach

I also can't think of any big 4th line style centerman

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05-06-2007, 11:17 PM
  #50
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pappyline sent me a list. He's proud to select LW Johnny Wilson.

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