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Any Interest In This Proposal Flames/Isles Fans?

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Old
02-23-2004, 10:02 PM
  #26
Ozy_Flame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I realize that Parrish could get Warrner alone but could he be packaged?
No. Unless you offer Mike Peca with him, there is little reason for the Flames to move Warrener.

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02-23-2004, 10:11 PM
  #27
Darth Milbury
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
No. Unless you offer Mike Peca with him, there is little reason for the Flames to move Warrener.

Basically, this whole thread is getting increasingly ridiculous.

Isles are not getting Warrner.
Isles don't want Gauthier.

Flames are not getting Parrish.
Flames are sure as hell not getting Peca.

There is no basis for discussion here.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 02-23-2004 at 10:16 PM.
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Old
02-24-2004, 12:21 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
How much do value #5 defensemen who have a tendency to pound the puck into the middle of traffic during a forecheck?
He is NOT a number 5 defenseman. He is easily a number 4 guy. He just plays 5 because the Flames' defense is so strong.

And he doesn't have a tendence to do what you said. What he does do though is shoot the puck into players' shinpads from the point for breakaways.

I prefer Gauthier over a guy who has a penchant for disappearing for weeks on end.

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02-24-2004, 03:25 PM
  #29
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So it breaks down like this:
Warrener's value is higher then Parrish's
Parrish's value is higher then Gauthier

What is the value of Bates or Scatchard? They have got to be closer to Gauthier then Parrish.

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02-24-2004, 03:36 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sled2300
So it breaks down like this:
Warrener's value is higher then Parrish's
Parrish's value is higher then Gauthier

What is the value of Bates or Scatchard? They have got to be closer to Gauthier then Parrish.

Isles wouldn't move Scatchard for Guathier.They'd package him and getter better value.

and I doubt the Flames would move Guathier for Bates

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Old
02-24-2004, 06:02 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sled2300
So it breaks down like this:
Warrener's value is higher then Parrish's
Parrish's value is higher then Gauthier

What is the value of Bates or Scatchard? They have got to be closer to Gauthier then Parrish.

Scatch's trade value is probably a good deal higher than Parrish's and far higher than Gauthier's. And, yeah, I think Warrner (who is one of the better defensive dmen around) has trade value that exceeds any of these players.

Bates' trade value is lower than Parrish or Scatch, and probably lower than Gauthier. Bates is a useful guy, but not a very consistent offensive threat. I think the Isles would have to add something significant to Bates to come close to getting Gauthier.

But, again, my GUESS (i.e, not fact and not something I am claiming to be certain) is that the Isles have never had any real interest in Gauthier. So, it is basically a moot point. I don't think the Flames are getting anything from the Isles, let alone Parrish or Scatchard. Of course, I make no promises and could be wrong.


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Old
02-24-2004, 06:07 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
He is NOT a number 5 defenseman. He is easily a number 4 guy. He just plays 5 because the Flames' defense is so strong.

And he doesn't have a tendence to do what you said. What he does do though is shoot the puck into players' shinpads from the point for breakaways.

I prefer Gauthier over a guy who has a penchant for disappearing for weeks on end.

Gauthier would be the #5 on the Isles as well. He isn't going to beat out Hamrlik, Kenny J, Janne N., or Aucoin. He isn't even close to being that good.

And, yes, he does pound the puck into traffic and make one bad defensive read after another. He is a #5 dman on a good team, pure and simple.

And, you might prefer him to a "guy who disappears for weeks on end" (which, btw, assumes that a player "disappears" when he is scoring) but the reality is that:
1) Parrish would instantly become one of the Flames best forwards.
2) You were the one who proposed Gauthier for Parrish, most of the rest of us thought it was fairly unrealistic.
3) Flames fans (much to the furstration of Islander fans here) have proposed that deal about once every two weeks. Flames fans want that to happen, not Islander fans.

You'd rather have Gauthier than Parrish? Fine. That works for me. I don't want Gauthier at all - at least not at any significant cost.


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Old
02-24-2004, 08:01 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Gauthier would be the #5 on the Isles as well. He isn't going to beat out Hamrlik, Kenny J, Janne N., or Aucoin. He isn't even close to being that good.

And, yes, he does pound the puck into traffic and make one bad defensive read after another. He is a #5 dman on a good team, pure and simple.

And, you might prefer him to a "guy who disappears for weeks on end" (which, btw, assumes that a player "disappears" when he is scoring) but the reality is that:
1) Parrish would instantly become one of the Flames best forwards.
2) You were the one who proposed Gauthier for Parrish, most of the rest of us thought it was fairly unrealistic.
3) Flames fans (much to the furstration of Islander fans here) have proposed that deal about once every two weeks. Flames fans want that to happen, not Islander fans.

You'd rather have Gauthier than Parrish? Fine. That works for me. I don't want Gauthier at all - at least not at any significant cost.
Alright whatever. You have your player, the Flames will have their's. It's probably best keeping Gauthier right now anyway. At least for another year or two until Phaneuf and/or Ramholt are ready.

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02-24-2004, 10:41 PM
  #34
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I know I mentioned numerous time the possibility of a trade between NYI and CGY. Gauthier seems to be the most likely to moved by CGY to any team as he one of the more expendable assets we have. So lets forget Gauthier and talk Lydman. He puts up as much minutes as the top 4 in NYI and would certainly fit in as he does have flashes of offensive flare. If NYI got a nice package of draftp pick/prospect/player who could make a difference for Hammer then I think we would most likely be speaking the same language until that happens I agree with you Darth that Gauthier to NYI is a dead issue. I was looking for NYI fans to come back with a proposal that Lydman would have to be coming the other way for Parrish or Scatchard. It seems the only way that CGY would get the secondary scoring threat they need from NYI is to involve a third team that can offer up something that NYI fans would be happy with for Hammer.

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02-24-2004, 11:04 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sled2300
I know I mentioned numerous time the possibility of a trade between NYI and CGY. Gauthier seems to be the most likely to moved by CGY to any team as he one of the more expendable assets we have. So lets forget Gauthier and talk Lydman. He puts up as much minutes as the top 4 in NYI and would certainly fit in as he does have flashes of offensive flare. If NYI got a nice package of draftp pick/prospect/player who could make a difference for Hammer then I think we would most likely be speaking the same language until that happens I agree with you Darth that Gauthier to NYI is a dead issue. I was looking for NYI fans to come back with a proposal that Lydman would have to be coming the other way for Parrish or Scatchard. It seems the only way that CGY would get the secondary scoring threat they need from NYI is to involve a third team that can offer up something that NYI fans would be happy with for Hammer.

Isles aren't looking for another offensive d-man.They need a crease clearer,a physical d-man.

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Old
02-24-2004, 11:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sled2300
I know I mentioned numerous time the possibility of a trade between NYI and CGY. Gauthier seems to be the most likely to moved by CGY to any team as he one of the more expendable assets we have. So lets forget Gauthier and talk Lydman. He puts up as much minutes as the top 4 in NYI and would certainly fit in as he does have flashes of offensive flare. If NYI got a nice package of draftp pick/prospect/player who could make a difference for Hammer then I think we would most likely be speaking the same language until that happens I agree with you Darth that Gauthier to NYI is a dead issue. I was looking for NYI fans to come back with a proposal that Lydman would have to be coming the other way for Parrish or Scatchard. It seems the only way that CGY would get the secondary scoring threat they need from NYI is to involve a third team that can offer up something that NYI fans would be happy with for Hammer.

Lydman is a pretty high level guy and he could certainly play in the Isles top four. But, he is also very similar in style to all of the current Isles dmen. So, you're right, the only way he'd ever come to the Island would be if Hamrlik was moved first. And, while I do think Parrish + could go in such a deal, Scatchard is another story altogether. I seriously doubt the Isles would trade him, even for Lydman.

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Old
02-24-2004, 11:05 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Isles aren't looking for another offensive d-man.They need a crease clearer,a physical d-man.

I think Sled2300's point was that, if the Isles traded Hamrlik, they might then be interested in putting a package together for Lydman. Right now, Lydman is pretty close to being at Hamrlik's level.

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02-24-2004, 11:28 PM
  #38
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I figured Scatchard would be a hard catch. Yes Lydman is an offensive weapon on our team but he is also sound defensively, he has grown from being solely a good puck handler to having an impressive grasp on his own end responsibilities. I would hate to see Lydman go but if he could fetch say Parrish + it would be worth it.

Sutter will be making another move for almost certainty, I would like to see if he can pull another "Donovan" and find the player that would thrive in his system. IMO Bates might be that guy. Correct me if I'm wrong but I see Bates as a gritty, speedy, intaginizing player who sometimes disappears offensively but isn't afraid to pay the price to score. That's the team Sutter is building (not the disappearing aprt) and if Gauthier is most likely too much what would NYI fans like to see as a return?

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02-24-2004, 11:51 PM
  #39
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Warrener is going to be a Flame for the long-haul. There is no way that Sutter trades his favorite player for anything short of a franchise player at this stage of the game. Parrish's value is not as good as many Isles fans here are making it out to be, he's been struggling with injuries and his production is dismal. Scatchard's production isn't so hot either. I'd pass on both of these guys at the asking price, if Gauthier won't do it then there's nothing that's doing to make the Flames overpay for two underachieving forwards with recent/current injury issues. Just plain unrealistic. And no, Regehr is not available either.

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02-24-2004, 11:55 PM
  #40
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Gauthier for Bates is overpaying, how about Gauthier for Kvasha? Forget this Parrish/Scatchard business, lets talk Kvasha.

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Old
02-24-2004, 11:58 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Isles aren't looking for another offensive d-man.They need a crease clearer,a physical d-man.
Ive been saying this the last 2 weeks on the Isles board

Getting Lydman would be certainly nice....but like darth said...it wouldnt help the isles where they need the most help...
In front of Dipietro's crease...
kinda funny though i like gauthier's upside and think hed fit on a young Isles team..It would honestly just depend on the pricetag to get him.

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02-24-2004, 11:59 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
he's been struggling with injuries and his production is dismal
Struggling with injuries? He has had only one. A bad high ankle sprain. For his career he has played 81, 78, 70, 81, 73 games. So he is far from injury prone.

By the way he came back from this injury tonight.


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02-25-2004, 12:01 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Gauthier for Bates is overpaying, how about Gauthier for Kvasha? Forget this Parrish/Scatchard business, lets talk Kvasha.
No.

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Old
02-25-2004, 12:02 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Gauthier for Bates is overpaying, how about Gauthier for Kvasha? Forget this Parrish/Scatchard business, lets talk Kvasha.
Obviousily you dont follow the Isles...
Milbury loves Kvasha.[he was milbury's "centerpiece" in that Luongo deal ]

..and the fact hes playing decently this year..

Milbury would defintely scoff at the notion of trading him

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02-25-2004, 12:28 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Gauthier for Bates is overpaying, how about Gauthier for Kvasha? Forget this Parrish/Scatchard business, lets talk Kvasha.
I'd probably offer Bates and a 3rd rounder for Gauthier. If that wouldn't get it done, I'd pass. The price of a #5 dman in the NHL shouldn't be a whole lot higher than that.

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02-25-2004, 01:01 PM
  #46
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Gauthier for Bates is the equivalent of the Flames offering Josh Green for Martinek (when he was actually playing well) -- it's overpaying no matter how you slice it. Bates value just isn't that good, he's a streaky checker at best. He's comparable to Chris Clark -- who's a fourth liner on a healthy roster most nights.

If Bates is the best being offered, then as usual, there isn't a good fit here. Maybe Bates and Asham together for Gauthier and a 3rd -- that might be considered. Anyways...

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02-25-2004, 01:37 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Gauthier for Bates is the equivalent of the Flames offering Josh Green for Martinek (when he was actually playing well) -- it's overpaying no matter how you slice it. Bates value just isn't that good, he's a streaky checker at best. He's comparable to Chris Clark -- who's a fourth liner on a healthy roster most nights.

If Bates is the best being offered, then as usual, there isn't a good fit here. Maybe Bates and Asham together for Gauthier and a 3rd -- that might be considered. Anyways...

Bates is a far superior player to Clark. He can do a lot more. He kills penalties, takes key faceoffs, and scores 15 - 20 goals a year. He is a valuable guy. But, you're right that he shouldn't be positioned higher than a third line. He certainly can play above a fourth line on any team in the league, however.

I wouldn't do Asham and Bates for Gauthier. I'd do one or the other, and that would be about that. But, then again, I don't really want Gauthier to be an Islander and I really can't tell you if Islander management holds a similar perspective.

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