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Bonus Rulings Could Hurt Rangers

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Old
05-20-2007, 10:38 PM
  #1
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Bonus Rulings Could Hurt Rangers

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05202007...rry_brooks.htm


If the Blueshirts lose the case - which will be heard in conjunction with similar grievances filed by Jed Ortmeyer and Darius Kasparaitis - they will be liable for a $1.52 million salary-cap charge against next season's roster, we've been informed by individuals with knowledge of the case.


anyone think Ortmeyer is done as a Ranger, after this????

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05-20-2007, 11:25 PM
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Well that doesn't help Jed's chances of staying with the Rangers...

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05-20-2007, 11:28 PM
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Well that doesnt leave much hope for Ortmeyer staying with the team next season.

Opens up a spot on the Roster though.

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05-20-2007, 11:39 PM
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I guess it's time for Orty to move on. We have younger players who bring the same to the table.

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05-20-2007, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05202007...rry_brooks.htm


If the Blueshirts lose the case - which will be heard in conjunction with similar grievances filed by Jed Ortmeyer and Darius Kasparaitis - they will be liable for a $1.52 million salary-cap charge against next season's roster, we've been informed by individuals with knowledge of the case.


anyone think Ortmeyer is done as a Ranger, after this????
Well, if you actually read the article (and this is not the first time this issue with Holik, Ortmeyer and Kasparaitis has come up in the media), you'd discover that Holik's case and Ortmeyer's are somewhat different and only Holik's money will end up counting against the cap. And why? Because the Rangers were stupid, that's why. They are the only team that tried to withhold these bonuses during the lockout and for a "reason" that will get blown out of the water when the grivance is heard. Serves them right for being tight with their pennies. Now it will cost them a player's salary on the roster. All for the joy of having had Holik in a Ranger jersey. Just lovely.

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05-21-2007, 06:10 AM
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=381906

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05-21-2007, 06:19 AM
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Well, if you actually read the article (and this is not the first time this issue with Holik, Ortmeyer and Kasparaitis has come up in the media), you'd discover that Holik's case and Ortmeyer's are somewhat different and only Holik's money will end up counting against the cap. And why? Because the Rangers were stupid, that's why. They are the only team that tried to withhold these bonuses during the lockout and for a "reason" that will get blown out of the water when the grivance is heard. Serves them right for being tight with their pennies. Now it will cost them a player's salary on the roster. All for the joy of having had Holik in a Ranger jersey. Just lovely.
The Rangers didn't come close to the $44 million cap limit in 2006-07.The cap will increase to $47-$48 million next season and it's not likely the Rangers will be at the $47-$48 million cap in 2007-08.The Rangers could cut Holik a check for $1.52 million before June 30 and apply it to the 06-07 cap.They have cap space to do that

The Rangers carried Sandis Ozolinsh's $2.75 million,the Keven Weekes $1.95 million and took a $1.8 million hit on Kasparaitis but they still had $1.6-$1.7 million of cap space remaining.They had still had a good team

Which player are they not going to have the privilege of overpaying this summer or during the season?

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05-21-2007, 08:03 AM
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Totally off the subject but could people at least spell Timonen's name right Thanks

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05-21-2007, 08:41 AM
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I guess it's time for Orty to move on. We have younger players who bring the same to the table.
I respectfully disagree. Who are you contemplating doing what Jed does. On this NYR team there is no one. Hartford, there might be players with more talent than Jed, but none that bring the passion, guts, heart & soul approach to PK, 4th line play, intangibles, that Jed brings each and every game. Don't forget we were speaking of Jed as "C" material not that long ago. It's an extreme longshot I admit, but that this honor comes up in discussion shows me the respect Jed gets from teammates and fans alike. I would be really dissapointed if NYR failed to sign him. BTW, disregard this $150,000 due or not due Jed. If Slats/Renney want Jed back he is back

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05-21-2007, 10:49 AM
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So the Rangers' organization refused to pay these signing bonuses, which of course is a low-life, bush-league move on their part. So Jed Ortmeyer will pay the price for their rotten, double-crossing?

Am I the only one who finds this refusal to pay by the Rangers, as dispicable?

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05-21-2007, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
I respectfully disagree. Who are you contemplating doing what Jed does. On this NYR team there is no one. Hartford, there might be players with more talent than Jed, but none that bring the passion, guts, heart & soul approach to PK, 4th line play, intangibles, that Jed brings each and every game. Don't forget we were speaking of Jed as "C" material not that long ago. It's an extreme longshot I admit, but that this honor comes up in discussion shows me the respect Jed gets from teammates and fans alike. I would be really dissapointed if NYR failed to sign him. BTW, disregard this $150,000 due or not due Jed. If Slats/Renney want Jed back he is back
his got intangibles, but its not nearly as noticeable now as it was a few years ago. i say that not because i think his game has regressed, but rather because more and more players are playing the balls to the wall style that he does.

hes a good player, but on a stanley cup contending team, he just doesnt bring enough offense to warrant a spot.

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05-21-2007, 01:25 PM
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his got intangibles, but its not nearly as noticeable now as it was a few years ago. i say that not because i think his game has regressed, but rather because more and more players are playing the balls to the wall style that he does.

hes a good player, but on a stanley cup contending team, he just doesnt bring enough offense to warrant a spot.
OK who are you proposing for this spot that can do what Jed does? I don't expect a FA signing so improvement has to come from inside NYR org. Who do you propose? Not Dawes, not Dubinsky, not Helminen(though I like him alot), Immo, not hardly, Bourret, maybe, but he is 20 yrs old and I think another year in A is warrented. Byers is a possibility, but I think another year in A is in store for him also. Moore, I don't think can play in NHL. I hate to move Callahan off 2nd or 3rd line

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05-21-2007, 04:47 PM
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The Rangers didn't come close to the $44 million cap limit in 2006-07.The cap will increase to $47-$48 million next season and it's not likely the Rangers will be at the $47-$48 million cap in 2007-08.The Rangers could cut Holik a check for $1.52 million before June 30 and apply it to the 06-07 cap.They have cap space to do that

The Rangers carried Sandis Ozolinsh's $2.75 million,the Keven Weekes $1.95 million and took a $1.8 million hit on Kasparaitis but they still had $1.6-$1.7 million of cap space remaining.They had still had a good team

Which player are they not going to have the privilege of overpaying this summer or during the season?
$1.52 million is a player's salary that's lost because of some bean counter's idiotic move. It's that much less room to maneuver. And when it's a zero sum game, anytime there's less room to maneuver, somewhere down the line you risk losing.

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05-21-2007, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post

The Rangers carried Sandis Ozolinsh's $2.75 million,the Keven Weekes $1.95 million and took a $1.8 million hit on Kasparaitis but they still had $1.6-$1.7 million of cap space remaining.They had still had a good team
But last year Prucha, Hossa and Lundqvist were all making beans, as Nylander was making under $3 million. There's no way any of the first two will get under a million, Lundqvist under $3 or Nylander under $4 for this year. The $1.5 million to Holik could hurt the Rangers if they don't wise up and pay it before next season starts.

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05-21-2007, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
I respectfully disagree. Who are you contemplating doing what Jed does. On this NYR team there is no one. Hartford, there might be players with more talent than Jed, but none that bring the passion, guts, heart & soul approach to PK, 4th line play, intangibles, that Jed brings each and every game. Don't forget we were speaking of Jed as "C" material not that long ago. It's an extreme longshot I admit, but that this honor comes up in discussion shows me the respect Jed gets from teammates and fans alike. I would be really dissapointed if NYR failed to sign him. BTW, disregard this $150,000 due or not due Jed. If Slats/Renney want Jed back he is back
The fact that Orts was brought up in any conversation about future captaincy is just ridiculous, and to me simply illustrates just how starved for effort the Rangers had been prior to 05-06. Jed Ortmeyer is a terrific penalty killer and shot blocker, but that is literally it. His hands are non-existent, and he really isn't a very good hitter. The guy is a 4th liner at best, and anyone would have a really hard time convincing me otherwise.

Do you honestly believe that a 4th liner could be a captain? Do you seriously doubt that Jed's 24 points in 177 games can't be replaced by a kid who is just as hungry?

Don't get me wrong, I really like Jed. But if this team decides that it is time to move on I won't be second guessing the decision (even if he gets off to a Dominic Moore-esque start in another city...)

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05-21-2007, 05:55 PM
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Well said Synergy....

I appreciate Jed but he's no defensive specialist out on the ice... If he was, his value would be a lot more then it is... When was the last time Jed was every assigned to go shut another team's top forward down? Never...

He's an energy guy at even strength, not an above average hitter, and a great PKer and shot blocker... Good lockerroom guy but if the Rangers want to go all the way, we can and will do better w/ players in the organization.... Gotta play the best players available...

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05-23-2007, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
So the Rangers' organization refused to pay these signing bonuses, which of course is a low-life, bush-league move on their part. So Jed Ortmeyer will pay the price for their rotten, double-crossing?

Am I the only one who finds this refusal to pay by the Rangers, as dispicable?
Tell me something.

Have you seen the contracts?

Upon what basis are you justified in calling it "double-crossing" or "dispicable"?

The truth is:

1) You don't know what you're talking about.

2) You don't even know if NHL HQ asked Glen to withhold these payments. NHL HQ consults with all teams about bonus payments and the clubs receive guidance regarding how Bettman wants to work with the NHLPA on issues of contracts. I.e., Glen did not make any decisions of his own. This is a league versus union thing, not a Slats versus Jed thing.

3) Brooks doesn't know what he's talking about either which is why he practically ate his words 24 hours later. Though instead of a retraction of the crap he penned earlier, he made it sound as if he had uncovered new information which let Slats off the hook.

People... you have got to stop being such suckers for what you read in The Post... such as Larry's "Prucha and Montoya for Rucinsky" column which proved to be as senile as the beat reporter who wrote it.

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05-23-2007, 12:47 AM
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Stop and think people...

Jed played for NYR for TWO SEASONS after his grievance was lodged. Do you seriously believe he was holding a grudge all that time?

If Jed is entitled to the cash, he knows (and has known for two years) that he'll get it with interest no matter how long it takes once the arbitrator rules.

This isn't something "dispicable". This is a disagreement of clauses in a couple of contracts which require arbitration to resolve. Slats is having a disagreement with Jed and with Bobby over the terms of the bonuses and the CBA says that these sort of disagreements are to be resolved via arbitration. The club keeps the money until the arbitrator rules. If the player wins, he gets his cash plus interest, no harm, no foul.

You make it sound as if Jed was destitute for 24 months. Trust me. He's doing just fine and if he wins his grievance, he'll get every penny adjusted for the delay in payment.

This is not a case of Slats denying Jed "his" cash. This is a case of an arbitration hearing to determine whether it is indeed "Jed's cash".

Heck. If the arbitrator rules in NYR's favor then it wasn't Jed's money in the first place, was it? And all you're doing is pissing into the wind and villifying Glen for some fuss Brooks made.

Once again, for the comprehension impaired:

This is not a Jed versus Sather issue.

This is an NHL versus NHLPA issue in which the battleground is a piece of NYR paper. Slats consulted with Daly before withholding the check. Daly approved Slats doing this.

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05-23-2007, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Stop and think people...

Jed played for NYR for TWO SEASONS after his grievance was lodged. Do you seriously believe he was holding a grudge all that time?

If Jed is entitled to the cash, he knows (and has known for two years) that he'll get it with interest no matter how long it takes once the arbitrator rules.

This isn't something "dispicable". This is a disagreement of clauses in a couple of contracts which require arbitration to resolve. Slats is having a disagreement with Jed and with Bobby over the terms of the bonuses and the CBA says that these sort of disagreements are to be resolved via arbitration. The club keeps the money until the arbitrator rules. If the player wins, he gets his cash plus interest, no harm, no foul.

You make it sound as if Jed was destitute for 24 months. Trust me. He's doing just fine and if he wins his grievance, he'll get every penny adjusted for the delay in payment.

This is not a case of Slats denying Jed "his" cash. This is a case of an arbitration hearing to determine whether it is indeed "Jed's cash".

Heck. If the arbitrator rules in NYR's favor then it wasn't Jed's money in the first place, was it? And all you're doing is pissing into the wind and villifying Glen for some fuss Brooks made.

Once again, for the comprehension impaired:

This is not a Jed versus Sather issue.

This is an NHL versus NHLPA issue in which the battleground is a piece of NYR paper. Slats consulted with Daly before withholding the check. Daly approved Slats doing this.
Isn't the disagreement risen out of some verbal comment the players agents were supposed to have made to Sather about not having to pay their players the bonus's?

Again, I'm not sure if what I read has been correct, but I do doubt that the league HQ advised Sather to with hold these bonuses and actually have them be the only team in the NHL to do so.

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05-23-2007, 06:34 AM
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Again, I'm not sure if what I read has been correct, but I do doubt that the league HQ advised Sather to with hold these bonuses and actually have them be the only team in the NHL to do so.
Allow me to remove any ambiguity by spelling it out step-by-step.

Step 1: Before the lockout ended, Glen has concerns about paying certain bonuses. He doesn't feel he should pay these bonuses. But he knows better than to unilaterally place the league at odds with labor. He covers his ass first. See Step 2.

Step 2: Before deciding not to pay the bonuses, Slats contacts Bill Daly's office (NHL HQ). The purpose of this series of telecons was to determine HQ's stance on Glen's objections to paying the bonuses given the labor situation.

Step 3: Daly's office tells Slats it has no objection to his withholding the payments, that the debate will be resolved in arbitration should the players formally press the issue by filing a grievance through the NHLPA. Again, these exchanges occured before the 2005-2006 season.

It's no different than when Bryden contacted Bettman before announcing he was going to force Alexei Yashin to fulfill that other year of service. Bryden was not going to blindside HQ. Neither was Glen going to blindside HQ.

Trust me. The last thing Slats wanted was a phone call from Daly asking "Ted Saskin just told me you're not going to pay Jed. What's going on?"

You never blind-side HQ like that.

The protocol is to give HQ a heads-up before you take a controversial action which will cause a labor/management clash. And you make damned sure you have their okay before you push the button. You never go renegade. PS - It's in the Charter that you don't go renegade. The Charter is different than the CBA. It's a document binding the owners... essentially pledging that the good ol' boys will stick together. It's in The Charter where it's written how may votes are required to overrule a Bettman dictum, for example.

But I digress...

Step 4: Glen also asks (at the time) whether there are any future implications to NYR should an arbitrator subsequently rule (after the lockout) that the bonuses should be paid after all. I.e., if a salary cap was going to be implemented, would these latent payments (with interest) in any manner apply towards the cap? The League says "no".

Step 5: Two years later, Larry Brooks publishes this crap in The Post about NYR's cap impact should Jed win his grievance, should Holik win his grievance, etc.

Step 6: Both NYR and NHL HQ read Brooks' column and are puzzled because neither Daly's office nor Sather's office have any idea where Brooks is getting this nonsence.

Step 7: NYR front office is now nervous, wondering if HQ has reversed it's original decision.

So NYR contacts Daly's office just to be sure Brooks doesn't know anything they don't.

Step 8: Daly's office assures NYR that nothing has changed and that there is zero cap impact no matter which way the arbitrator decides.

Step 9: Next morning Brooks reverses course and completely undoes what he said the previous day.

But instead of writing his (cough) retraction as a mea culpa, Brooks instead writes it as if he came upon some epiphany. Somehow, his (cough) gumshoe work turned up new information which clarified what he had written the day before. What a guy!

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