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New HF Org. Rankings - Blues at #4

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Old
05-24-2007, 12:40 PM
  #26
TrustInJarmo*
 
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Originally Posted by slats432 View Post
What I am saying, is HF isn't biased against the Blues, and some on this board feel that way. There is reasoning for what has been done for rankings.....
I for one am not saying anyone is being "biased against the Blues"....

What I am saying is that a lot of us knew we had a solid group the last 2 or 3 years and it was something that wasn't realized by other people.

(And just to give you a heads up on me...I am not one of those fans who think we always have the "best" group of prospects, the "best" coach, the "best" of everything.) I hated our old ownership from day one, I hated Quenneville since 2000. And I have thought our draft prospects have been pure crap almost every year from the 1970s...that is until we landed Jarmo back in 2002).

Jarmo's past alone (In Ottawa) wasn't even taken into consideration by HF by ranking us 29th at the end of 2005....again shows the intelligence of it's rankings in 2005.


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Old
05-24-2007, 06:46 PM
  #27
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I don't have any issue with HF's past rankings of our team; until EJ we had absolutely no front line talent. Period.

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05-24-2007, 06:50 PM
  #28
WalterSobchak
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Originally Posted by TrustInJarmo View Post
What are you talking about??? Senja?? Senja was already in then NHL 18 months ago...

18 months ago was Nov 2005...At that time we ALREADY had Oshie, we ALREADY had Ben Bishop, we ALREADY had Schwarz from the 2004 draft, we ALREADY had Soderberg from the 2004 draft, we ALREADY had Backes from 2003 draft, I can go on and on.

The POINT was that Hockey Futures listed us at 29th out of 30th with Oshie, with Bishop, wiht Schwarz, with Soderberg, with Backes. They pride themselves on knowing "hockeys future", yet they didn't see any of these guys, like Jarmo did.
nobody "knows" hockey future. Those kids hadn't really proved anything at that point. Now they have, thus our position reflects the improvement. I don't think anyone here is out there scouting players for HF, so it is all gathered information on these players to assess them. You want actual rankings of players, start tailing NHL scouts.

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05-24-2007, 07:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
nobody "knows" hockey future. Those kids hadn't really proved anything at that point. Now they have, thus our position reflects the improvement. I don't think anyone here is out there scouting players for HF, so it is all gathered information on these players to assess them. You want actual rankings of players, start tailing NHL scouts.
Not exactly. When I was a writer, I watched hockey in every town I could. Including a game in Worcester, MA.

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05-24-2007, 07:36 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by slats432 View Post
Not exactly. When I was a writer, I watched hockey in every town I could. Including a game in Worcester, MA.
Do you think watching a player for one or two games is enough to make an informed opinion about that player?

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05-24-2007, 08:10 PM
  #31
Slats432
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Do you think watching a player for one or two games is enough to make an informed opinion about that player?
Obviously not. But the comment was that HF writers don't actually see them play which isn't the case.

I watched tons of camps and went to lots of minor league games. Sometimes you will see players more, sometimes less...but you do what you can.

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05-24-2007, 08:10 PM
  #32
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Is it possible for anyone at this board to move on? A mistake was made over a year ago and has now been corrected. Hopefully, writers will learn from some mistakes and will create better evaluations. Going from 29 to something like 25 or 22 doesn't seem that important considering the prospects still have years and years to develop. I mean, there's a possibility that any of them could be future NHLers but how could you have known years beforehand?

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05-24-2007, 08:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Chiodos View Post
Is it possible for anyone at this board to move on? A mistake was made over a year ago and has now been corrected. Hopefully, writers will learn from some mistakes and will create better evaluations. Going from 29 to something like 25 or 22 doesn't seem that important considering the prospects still have years and years to develop. I mean, there's a possibility that any of them could be future NHLers but how could you have known years beforehand?
According to your info you weren't around when the debates were heated. Imagine arguing a ton right now about the fact that you think EJ will be a bust and being called an idiot, stupid, ignorant, etc. then in 3-4 years EJ is out of the NHL, you sure would want to come back and at least get recognition that you were right... that's kinda what's going on here.

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05-24-2007, 08:43 PM
  #34
Slats432
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Originally Posted by CuSa_1 View Post
According to your info you weren't around when the debates were heated. Imagine arguing a ton right now about the fact that you think EJ will be a bust and being called an idiot, stupid, ignorant, etc. then in 3-4 years EJ is out of the NHL, you sure would want to come back and at least get recognition that you were right... that's kinda what's going on here.
Actually no...it would be like someone arguing that Jay Barribal is going to be a bust.

The guys that caused the most arguments to me are Zakharov, Shkotov and Sejna.

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05-25-2007, 12:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by slats432 View Post
Obviously not. But the comment was that HF writers don't actually see them play which isn't the case.

I watched tons of camps and went to lots of minor league games. Sometimes you will see players more, sometimes less...but you do what you can.
There have been more than a few occasions where someone on the HF staff that hadn't seen a player in several seasons or saw them for a couple of games over a season or two based their judgement of a player on that little amount of info.

I'm glad to hear you want more info before forming an opinion, but there are unfortunately some that aren't as stringent.

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Old
05-25-2007, 10:19 PM
  #36
WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
There have been more than a few occasions where someone on the HF staff that hadn't seen a player in several seasons or saw them for a couple of games over a season or two based their judgement of a player on that little amount of info.

I'm glad to hear you want more info before forming an opinion, but there are unfortunately some that aren't as stringent.
QFA. We've had writers flat out admit that they don't see these players live, that the information the gather is from other online resources when they make their assesments and write ups and rankings for HF. Its not a big deal to me, I mean I take HF rankings as a decent guideline and with a grain of salt. Hell NHL scouts and GM's percentage of prospects they grade spot-on is quite low so how would I expect any more of people who aren't paid to go from town to town constantly watching these players play game in and game out.

I've never played hockey, I don't know the finer parts of player development and wouldn't know how to pick out intangibles in prospects, so I don't pretend to. In fact I appreciate when a writer comes straight out and says, "I'm taking this information from what I gather online." It gives me a reference point for the information.

At the time HF ranked St. Louis 29th, we had just drafted for 2006, our 2005 draft picks were looking ok but there were less than 5 "decent" prospects and a crapload of "good-great longshots". As a Blues fan I suffer from Redwings envy and I can admit it. We passed on Datsyuk and Zetterberg just like everyone else. The Wings have some fantastic scouting and have had that for some time.

We're 4th, lets take that with an equal sized grain of salt and be thankful that our top end prospects are coming around.

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