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Heres a wacky idea....

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05-28-2007, 02:06 AM
  #1
Inferno
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Heres a wacky idea....

I was doing my player reviews over on my site and I was looking at the assist total for Betts, and looked at his career numbers and I thought to myself, he may be better suited as a winger.

in 4 nhl seasons this guy has NEVER put up more than 4 assists in a year.

NEVER!!!!!


in 148 games as a Ranger he has registered 6 assists. It took Jagr 4 games to get to 6 assists this year.

I get that the guy is a defense first player, believe me. But if we ever want to get any offense from the 4th line, I think we should move Betts to Left Wing, Insert Dubinsky at center, and put Prucha or Orr (depending on which free agents are acquired) and roll 4 lines out there unabashed.

This way the guys should get 12ish minutes per game, and should put up more than the 12 goals that Betts+Hollweg+Orr had last year.

Thoughts?

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05-28-2007, 02:24 AM
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If Betts isn't taking faceoffs at center, he is useless.

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05-28-2007, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
If Betts isn't taking faceoffs at center, he is useless.
last i checked....a winger can take a faceoff.

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05-28-2007, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
last i checked....a winger can take a faceoff.
Well yea, I know. I just don't think it makes a difference where he plays, he's not going to score. His role on this team is the win draws, play defense and kill penalties. If you put Dubinsky on his line, the only way Dubi will score is by goals he creates on his own.

I still think Renney likes the idea of having one line that he can trust defensively 100%. He isn't even worried about finding scoring for that line. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to get scoring from all 4 lines, if your top 3 lines do a good enough job in that department. If your 4th line is able to go out there, be defensively responsible, bang some bodies, and forecheck a little bit, I think you are golden...and you can still roll 4 lines.

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05-28-2007, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
If Betts isn't taking faceoffs at center, he is useless.
SLight over exateration........no?

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05-28-2007, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Well yea, I know. I just don't think it makes a difference where he plays, he's not going to score. His role on this team is the win draws, play defense and kill penalties. If you put Dubinsky on his line, the only way Dubi will score is by goals he creates on his own.

I still think Renney likes the idea of having one line that he can trust defensively 100%. He isn't even worried about finding scoring for that line. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to get scoring from all 4 lines, if your top 3 lines do a good enough job in that department. If your 4th line is able to go out there, be defensively responsible, bang some bodies, and forecheck a little bit, I think you are golden...and you can still roll 4 lines.
Ok, better, I could not have said it better myself.
I think a good way to get scoring out of that line would be to have the Defense step up more & shoot more from the blue line, then the forwards can tie up the oppostion and either bank a few of the Defense shots in, which could be ugly, SO WHAT! or by tieing the opposition up opens the shooting lane up for the Defense to get clear shots, NYR Defensemen takig shots from the Blue line or beyond, now thats WACKY!

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05-28-2007, 07:08 AM
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Move him to wing?--I don't know if that will help a lot--he's a one trick pony--he gets the puck--he shoots the puck. Despite all the good things Blair does--this is the main reason why I think he's replaceable. It may not happen for a year or two but his lack of creativity with the puck--his shoot the puck rather than pass mentality makes him an easier player to defend against. Of course Hollweg and Orr are not going to help anyone put up numbers and Ortmeyer can't finish. Betts has had chances though playing with better players. He just plays the same kind of game anyway. He doesn't distribute the puck well. He's also not the most physical player--though he does have good size and can take a hit. Good defensively. Very good on the pk. Good on faceoffs. Skates fairly well. Disciplined. Stays out of the penalty box. For the most part he's dependable--but that's about all.

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05-28-2007, 07:34 AM
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Who cares as long as they move him off the team. He's worthless compared to what the organization has in the minors.

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05-28-2007, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
I was doing my player reviews over on my site and I was looking at the assist total for Betts, and looked at his career numbers and I thought to myself, he may be better suited as a winger.

in 4 nhl seasons this guy has NEVER put up more than 4 assists in a year.

NEVER!!!!!


in 148 games as a Ranger he has registered 6 assists. It took Jagr 4 games to get to 6 assists this year.

I get that the guy is a defense first player, believe me. But if we ever want to get any offense from the 4th line, I think we should move Betts to Left Wing, Insert Dubinsky at center, and put Prucha or Orr (depending on which free agents are acquired) and roll 4 lines out there unabashed.

This way the guys should get 12ish minutes per game, and should put up more than the 12 goals that Betts+Hollweg+Orr had last year.

Thoughts?
I don't think it really matters. Moving Betts to wing to potentially increase his production is over-managing. And with the logjam of wings this team has, he's perfectly suited to be the 4th line center.

He might also have more assists if he wasn't playing with offensive voids like Ortmeyer and Hollweg and Orr.

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05-28-2007, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post

I still think Renney likes the idea of having one line that he can trust defensively 100%. He isn't even worried about finding scoring for that line.
Well he's in good shape than, because our 4th line has next to NO offense. But I do remember Hollweg with a sweet goal last year. You remember the 2 on 1 gimmeee he got from Jagr?

But you should be right. IF we get the 2nd line fixed than the 4th line can focus on D

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05-28-2007, 09:56 AM
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Let me preface this by saying I was never happy about keeping him around because I never thought he would be able to play a full season, his immediate history before coming established that in my mind.

He's been pretty healthy playing in 90% of his teams games the last 2 years.

However, I would really like to get some offence from the bottom 2 lines and do not think he is capable of providing that.

At 27 years old, I'm not sure it's going to develope either.

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05-28-2007, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by thestaalera View Post
Who cares as long as they move him off the team. He's worthless compared to what the organization has in the minors.
You're right Betts is worthless. Only our best Pk'er, one of our best players in the playoffs, one player who knows what his role is and doesn't try to play more than he is. God forbid a guy doesn't score 20 goals he's worthless. Look at 4th lines all over the league and you'll see Betts is one of the top in goals. Think back to the days where a 4th line player on the Rangers was lucky to have 3 or 4 goals in a year. And as far as what we have in the minors do you really want Dubinsky, Immonen or Ansimov on the 4th line? And do not even try and tell me Helminen is better than Betts.

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05-28-2007, 11:44 AM
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Here is the problem. Sure a guy should probably get more than 6 assists a year, but do you really expect much better than that when the guy plays with a combination of Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Orr. Whoever thinks Betts is completely useless either has not watched more than 5 Ranger games or is completely idiotic. Here's a nice stat. Through the 2 rounds of the playoffs, Betts was tied for first for most shot blocks. This stat pretty much translated to the regular season too, as I'm pretty sure he was top 10 in offensive player shot blocks. The rangers need to get a 4th liner with scoring talent. Having a line of Hollweg Orr and Betts will get absolutely no offensive production out of it, and putting a guy like Prucha there is a complete waste of talent. They need a guy like Adam Hall (except not him. Somebody actually good) that can do a 4th line man's job but still put 10-15 in the net.

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05-28-2007, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Here is the problem. Sure a guy should probably get more than 6 assists a year, but do you really expect much better than that when the guy plays with a combination of Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Orr. Whoever thinks Betts is completely useless either has not watched more than 5 Ranger games or is completely idiotic. Here's a nice stat. Through the 2 rounds of the playoffs, Betts was tied for first for most shot blocks. This stat pretty much translated to the regular season too, as I'm pretty sure he was top 10 in offensive player shot blocks. The rangers need to get a 4th liner with scoring talent. Having a line of Hollweg Orr and Betts will get absolutely no offensive production out of it, and putting a guy like Prucha there is a complete waste of talent. They need a guy like Adam Hall (except not him. Somebody actually good) that can do a 4th line man's job but still put 10-15 in the net.
If I remember correctly, it was mentioned a couple of times late in the season that Betts was in fact 1ST in the league among forwards in blocked shots...

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05-28-2007, 12:22 PM
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I don't get why everyone is so focused on Betts and Ortmeyer like they were our biggest problem. We've got scoring talent in the bottom 6, they just didn't get it done. Hopefully, full years from Avery and Callahan combined with better production from Cullen and Prucha will rectify the situation.

But Betts and Orts? They're PK specialists. They have a role and they fill it well. Let them do their jobs and worry about the production from the top 3 lines, rather than the 4th.

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05-28-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think it really matters. Moving Betts to wing to potentially increase his production is over-managing. And with the logjam of wings this team has, he's perfectly suited to be the 4th line center.

He might also have more assists if he wasn't playing with offensive voids like Ortmeyer and Hollweg and Orr.
What's funny is, I actually think Hollweg would get more points if he wasn't playing with offensive voids like Ortmeyer and Orr and Betts! Haha.

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05-28-2007, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think it really matters. Moving Betts to wing to potentially increase his production is over-managing. And with the logjam of wings this team has, he's perfectly suited to be the 4th line center.

He might also have more assists if he wasn't playing with offensive voids like Ortmeyer and Hollweg and Orr.
however when he was centering the 2nd and 3rd lines, im fairly sure he only put up 1 assist. and thats playing with the likes of prucha, shanny, hall, and hossa. so not exactly awful talent.

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05-28-2007, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
I don't get why everyone is so focused on Betts and Ortmeyer like they were our biggest problem. We've got scoring talent in the bottom 6, they just didn't get it done. Hopefully, full years from Avery and Callahan combined with better production from Cullen and Prucha will rectify the situation.

But Betts and Orts? They're PK specialists. They have a role and they fill it well. Let them do their jobs and worry about the production from the top 3 lines, rather than the 4th.
everyones not focused on them, the last 60,000 threads here have been dealing with upgrading the top 6.

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05-28-2007, 03:48 PM
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What's funny is, I actually think Hollweg would get more points if he wasn't playing with offensive voids like Ortmeyer and Orr and Betts! Haha.
I don't see any offensive ability in Hollweg.

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05-28-2007, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
however when he was centering the 2nd and 3rd lines, im fairly sure he only put up 1 assist. and thats playing with the likes of prucha, shanny, hall, and hossa. so not exactly awful talent.
Regardless, you're making an issue out of something that's not an issue. If the Rangers' fortunes hinge on Betts' playmaking ability, there are larger problems.

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05-28-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Regardless, you're making an issue out of something that's not an issue. If the Rangers' fortunes hinge on Betts' playmaking ability, there are larger problems.
i dont recall ever stating that their fortunes hinge on it. but if its a way to improve the team, they why not give it a shot.

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05-28-2007, 03:59 PM
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i dont recall ever stating that their fortunes hinge on it. but if its a way to improve the team, they why not give it a shot.
I don't see the fourth line as a problem.

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05-28-2007, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't see the fourth line as a problem.
i do, albeit not a major problem.

they have no defined role, and really as a group dont do any 1 thing exceptionally well.

the HMO line was great at creating energy for the team to feed off of, the threesome we throw out there dont really do that.

nor do they score goals

nor are they a prolific shutdown group

nor do they generate a consistent forecheck holding the puck in their zone for long periods of time

they, as pieces, definitely have roles. Hollweg to piss people off and get them off their games. Orr to break faces. Betts to kill penalties and take faceoffs, Orts to kill penalties and create energy.

but as a group they dont play particularly well together. Thats why Renney was forced to basically run 3 lines out there in the playoffs.

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05-28-2007, 04:24 PM
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Betts has got opportunties to play with better players. Prucha, Shanahan. It hasn't been all Orr, Hollweg and Ortmeyer. Ward and Hossa have also played with him and they while not putting up a lot of points are not that bad offensively. Ward had 26 points last year playing mostly on a line with Betts. 5 assists in two seasons playing around 150 games and averaging around 10 minutes per game anyway isn't very good. He's a good defensive center but he's incapable of setting his wings up.

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05-28-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't see any offensive ability in Hollweg.
I certainly did in juniors. I think he lost it when he got injured, but to say he doesn't have any would be wrong. If he could find it again he could be a very solid 3rd line player.

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