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Old
05-28-2007, 05:33 PM
  #26
Thirty One
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Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
I certainly did in juniors. I think he lost it when he got injured, but to say he doesn't have any would be wrong. If he could find it again he could be a very solid 3rd line player.
he definetly has offensive skills, whether he put them to use at NHL speed remains to be seen

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05-28-2007, 06:19 PM
  #27
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You're right Betts is worthless. Only our best Pk'er, one of our best players in the playoffs, one player who knows what his role is and doesn't try to play more than he is. God forbid a guy doesn't score 20 goals he's worthless. Look at 4th lines all over the league and you'll see Betts is one of the top in goals. Think back to the days where a 4th line player on the Rangers was lucky to have 3 or 4 goals in a year. And as far as what we have in the minors do you really want Dubinsky, Immonen or Ansimov on the 4th line? And do not even try and tell me Helminen is better than Betts.
Thank you.

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05-29-2007, 12:27 AM
  #28
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Betts has no offensive talent?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeRW1PFFtFA

ok, so it was just one goal but still he's a valuable part of this team. He kills penalties against the other teams' top PP Unit and does his job. We don't have him to score goals. Get him some help on the line and he'll chip in 10. What else do you want him to do? There is a reason it's the 4th line.

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05-29-2007, 12:47 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by mti79 View Post
Betts has no offensive talent?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeRW1PFFtFA

ok, so it was just one goal but still he's a valuable part of this team. He kills penalties against the other teams' top PP Unit and does his job. We don't have him to score goals. Get him some help on the line and he'll chip in 10. What else do you want him to do? There is a reason it's the 4th line.
actually, if you look at my site, or read my post, i bash his playmaking abilities, not his goal scoring ability. actually i go out of my way (on my site) to mention that he actually has a VERY good shot, but i feel his lack of vision hurts him tremendously when it comes to finding his wingers, and in getting into higher scoring positions.

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05-29-2007, 12:54 AM
  #30
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I'll be honest, I haven't looked at your site... yet. I will check it out. I just like Blair Betts. I think he's a good player for what he does and a good fit for our team. But if he added a few assists it would be nice.

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05-29-2007, 10:25 AM
  #31
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Betts would be a 3rd line center on a mediocre team (for instance, the Rangers of the first half of 2006-07) or a great 4th line center on a championship contending team (not altogether unlike the Rangers of the second half of the 2006-07 season) He's a great penalty killer, solid defensive player and the best faceoff man on the team. Ideal for the 4th line. You win championships with guys like this in their proper roles. Not altogther dissimilar from when Cullen moved back to the 3rd line and became a bigger contributor.

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05-29-2007, 01:06 PM
  #32
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A while back I was advocating another high energy guy with great F/O credentials who can create havoc and hence offence for his line mates and I was laughed out of town. but I am used to it and am here looking for more punishment.

What about free agent Scott Nichol on the same line with Avery and a sniper (Shanny or Hossa?)

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05-29-2007, 02:00 PM
  #33
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As a fourth line centerman...

Blair scored 13 points (I believe he had zero points while on other lines). I think that the amount of points he scored in his role is quite adequate and isn't something that needs to change. Unfortunately, his linemates do not score like him, and likely wouldn't even with a playmaker. If you are looking for more offense from the fourth line, perhaps one should look to change-up the wings a bit.

In addition, I'm not sure if Betts would be successful as a winger (or that it would matter). He's scored from the left side and right side, but mostly from hard work or on the rush.

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05-29-2007, 02:18 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
ibut as a group they dont play particularly well together. Thats why Renney was forced to basically run 3 lines out there in the playoffs.
He wasn't forced to, he chose to. There's a difference. Very few teams, if any, are going to throw out a 4th line like Buffalo can. Betts is what he is. Him, Ortmeyer, Orr, Hollweg all have their defined roles and are all good at what they do. One can only upgrade so much, when talking about 4th line, role players.

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05-30-2007, 12:13 PM
  #35
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I was doing my player reviews over on my site and I was looking at the assist total for Betts, and looked at his career numbers and I thought to myself, he may be better suited as a winger.

in 4 nhl seasons this guy has NEVER put up more than 4 assists in a year.

NEVER!!!!!


in 148 games as a Ranger he has registered 6 assists. It took Jagr 4 games to get to 6 assists this year.

I get that the guy is a defense first player, believe me. But if we ever want to get any offense from the 4th line, I think we should move Betts to Left Wing, Insert Dubinsky at center, and put Prucha or Orr (depending on which free agents are acquired) and roll 4 lines out there unabashed.

This way the guys should get 12ish minutes per game, and should put up more than the 12 goals that Betts+Hollweg+Orr had last year.

Thoughts?
I disagree, almost completely.

It's possible Betts could play the Wing.

But I can't agree with Prucha on the Fourth line, at all. Terrible idea and it's a role he's not suited for.

Neither would I avocate Dubinsky on the Fourth Line for nothing more than just a trial period, for him to earn himself a spot on the Third or Second Line.

Doing such things weakens the team's overall defense, Penalty Kill and eliminates a very physical, gritty and high-energy element.

You don't strengthen your offense, by weakening your overall defense and Penalty Kill. The goals prevented are as significant and vital, as are the goals scored.

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05-30-2007, 12:20 PM
  #36
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Prucha on a fourth line...

has already been tried unsuccessfully. Prucha needs to be with a playmaker, plain and simple. If he's not with a playmaker, he doesn't have much of a place on this team. I'm not saying play him 20 minutes, nor am I saying play him on a top line, but he's not very effective unless someone can get him the puck.

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05-30-2007, 12:53 PM
  #37
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honestly, i will love to become a team that can roll all 4 lines. really i see us another season away from that...but then i think we'll have the talent that can score and play d.

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05-30-2007, 12:54 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
i do, albeit not a major problem.

they have no defined role, and really as a group dont do any 1 thing exceptionally well.

the HMO line was great at creating energy for the team to feed off of, the threesome we throw out there dont really do that.

nor do they score goals

nor are they a prolific shutdown group

nor do they generate a consistent forecheck holding the puck in their zone for long periods of time

they, as pieces, definitely have roles. Hollweg to piss people off and get them off their games. Orr to break faces. Betts to kill penalties and take faceoffs, Orts to kill penalties and create energy.

but as a group they dont play particularly well together. Thats why Renney was forced to basically run 3 lines out there in the playoffs.
These are your "opinions" not necessarily facts. While one or two of your comments are factual.

Certainly there are many other people (including their teamates) who would intensely disagree with your opinion/statements.

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05-30-2007, 12:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
honestly, i will love to become a team that can roll all 4 lines. really i see us another season away from that...but then i think we'll have the talent that can score and play d.
Before we fall too much in love with the idea of rolling four lines, can we recognize that rolling four lines got Buffalo only marginally further than the Rangers got.

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05-30-2007, 01:03 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Nich View Post
honestly, i will love to become a team that can roll all 4 lines. really i see us another season away from that...but then i think we'll have the talent that can score and play d.
That would be great as long as you don't compromise the teams overall defensive strength, grit, toughness, energy and Penalty Kill.

But it is difficult to find players who will occupy a Fourth Line and bring everything the team needs from it.

Ultimately, the Rangers have major issues with the offensive production consistency, defenseive responsibility consistency and synergy of the Second and Third Lines. Which is a much bigger concern and priority than the Fourth Line. The Fourth Line did their jobs this season and in the Post-season. The Second and Third Lines.......no so much


Last edited by Jeds2StepOpus: 05-30-2007 at 01:32 PM.
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05-30-2007, 01:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Before we fall too much in love with the idea of rolling four lines, can we recognize that rolling four lines got Buffalo only marginally further than the Rangers got.
One win more in the Third Round ...

Not exactly a model to emulate.

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Old
05-30-2007, 01:44 PM
  #42
Nich
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honestly, i wouldn't be surprised to see dawes, korpedo or bourett on the 4th line in 2 years.

hmm dawes - jarkko and bourett as the 4th line?

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05-30-2007, 01:52 PM
  #43
Jeds2StepOpus
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honestly, i wouldn't be surprised to see dawes, korpedo or bourett on the 4th line in 2 years.

hmm dawes - jarkko and bourett as the 4th line?
I'm not so sure Immonen will be a Ranger after this summer. He may be, but I have my doubts.

Now if guy's like Dupont and Byers can develope into Second and Third Line players, and the Rangers have toughness, size, grit, energy and defensive prowess all uo and down their lineup; then, I could see a Fourth Line like you suggest. But as they are currenty structured , no way.

Again, a guy like Bourett should not be playing on the Fourth Line. When he's ready, you bring him up and insert him on the Second and Third Linel; after a short stint on the lower lines- just to make him earn it and prove he belongs.

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05-30-2007, 01:54 PM
  #44
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I don't Immonen has a place with the team. I just don't think Renney likes the kid.

As far as Dawes and Bourret on the fourth line, pass. Rather have them play significant minutes.

Renney (or Schoenfeld or Maloney) said they feel that there are six forwards in Hartford ready to play in the NHL. And I don't think Bourret was one of them. Give him some time.

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Old
05-30-2007, 01:57 PM
  #45
Nich
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Renney (or Schoenfeld or Maloney) said they feel that there are six forwards in Hartford ready to play in the NHL.
the six

dawes
dubi
jarkko
byers
korpedo

who else?

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05-30-2007, 01:58 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Nich View Post
the six

dawes
dubi
jarkko
byers
korpedo

who else?
Maybe he included Callahan.

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05-30-2007, 02:00 PM
  #47
Nich
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or maybe moore?

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Old
05-30-2007, 02:05 PM
  #48
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Going by the quotes you read from these guys, it seems they like Immonen, but his lack of speed is a factor for them. They always say they like his skills, his work ethic and reliability. But always elude to his skating-speed.


Something I've been saying all year. I too like Immonen, but I think his speed just doesn't cut it. Of course I got hammered for saying that about him

Would be great if during this summer Immonen sought some help to inprove his overall skating-speed and came into camp........blazing!

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05-30-2007, 02:08 PM
  #49
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I wouldn't be surprised if they try to force Jessiman into a Fourth Line role, with the Rangers.

I get the feeling they are going to bendover backwards to try and get Jessiman into that Fourth Line.

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